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Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 42

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Thanks for your responses, Trooperman!
I used some footage from Star Wars, but none from TPM.
Hmm...yeah, I thought there was one shot...uh the one that seems to be a zoomed in shot of a Tuskin shooting. Anyway...

I was wondering if anyone happened to have a better cap of that shot from the documentary?

Wish I could help...I haven't seen that doc in years!

I'm thinking about maybe asking someone else to tackle all of the Upatu/Kashyyk stuff in the style of SOTDS

Interesting...you mean as far as editing style goes?

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, you've made it clear that the trailer is incomplete, and you'll be cleaning up more for the final film. So I'm excited!

Oh, and my 2 cents for the senate scene: I'm thinking Erikstormtrooper's idea sounds tasty!

SSWR’s YouTube channel

Attack of the Clones: Alternate Timeline Edit Thread:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SSWRs-Attack-of-the-Clones-Alternate-Timeline-Edit/id/66888

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Hey trooper, I know you'll be using some footage from other films throughout your edit. So I was thinking while watching Star Trek the otion Picture, there's probably plenty of really decent fx shots from these movies worth considering. I just thought I'd throw that idea in there incase somehow it wasn't thought up yet.
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He's already down with The Wrath of Khan. lol

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The trailer for this looks like it's going well, and I'm very excited to see the finished product.

You mentioned the possibility of redubbing Mas Amadda's lines to get a better voice. He's the blue guy who says "O-dah!" etc. I'd be interested in doing that, to see if you liked how I did it. (If not, that's fine, lol.) I have done some acting and work with accents in the past, though not all that much.

Actually, I'm nervous of volunteering, but hey, it's worth a try at it.
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Nervous? Ol' TM's about the nicest guy on the boards.
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Originally posted by: hairy_hen
The trailer for this looks like it's going well, and I'm very excited to see the finished product.

You mentioned the possibility of redubbing Mas Amadda's lines to get a better voice. He's the blue guy who says "O-dah!" etc. I'd be interested in doing that, to see if you liked how I did it. (If not, that's fine, lol.) I have done some acting and work with accents in the past, though not all that much.

Actually, I'm nervous of volunteering, but hey, it's worth a try at it.



Hey man, if I can do it, you definitely can. I thought my Lama Su readings were crap, but they turned out fine. I'm sure you'd be great.

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Here's what I recommend:

Wipe to Yoda and Mace looking over the senate (wait until Mace has stopped walking in to start the wipe). Jar Jar is talking in the backround. Subtitles state that he proposes giving emergency powers to the Chancellor. We hear some cheering.

(Cut closeups of Jar Jar, all the senators gesturing, and the "or-duh" guy.)

Cut to Palpatine standing up and saying: "It is with great reluctance ..." etc., giving his whole speech.

Pan back to Yoda and Mace. Mace says "It is done, then." Yoda reacts. Wipe to next scene.

This is a good idea, but I do thing it'd be more natural to wipe to the establishing shot, and also to keep the shot with Mace walking down the hallway. At least the first part of it- I don't want to cut out the guys that look like the Imperial guards. That's one costume they actually managed to get right. But I especially like the idea to cut the speaking close-ups of Jar-Jar. That shot or two was ridiculously animated (but kind of hard to avoid with Jar-Jar. But we will still have Jar-Jar's speech. His character has to go somewhere in this movie; he has to be there for a reason. Just cutting him out doesn't seem to solve anything in the big picture.


Hmm...yeah, I thought there was one shot...uh the one that seems to be a zoomed in shot of a Tuskin shooting. Anyway...


This is the documentary shot I referred to.

Originally posted by: SomethingStarWarsRelated


I'm thinking about maybe asking someone else to tackle all of the Upatu/Kashyyk stuff in the style of SOTDS

Interesting...you mean as far as editing style goes?


Yes. I'm just getting a headache thinking about dealing with Upatu, the whole General Grievous problem, and all of that. I wish I could just axe that whole silly thing and film more interesting stuff- like more Imperial troops, a couple more scenes illustrating the addictiveness of the Dark Side, maybe a torture scene inflicted on Padme by the Emperor (remember, we're supposed to hate this guy). This after Palpatine's Ep. II line "To lose you would be...unbearable" would be great. Anakin actually killing Jedi rather than kids would be nice, and it still makes me sick to see Yoda with a lightsaber. I don't know- I just can't stomach it. And the saber fight at the end was emotionless and awful. The only redeeming part of the fight was the music, which still wasn't up to par with the classic SW scores. The delivery of the twins was awful. The romance scenes were awful (which can be fixed to a certain extent).

I'm rambling. But I see much less potential in this movie than I did in Ep. II, despite the superior cinematography. There are too many unfixable blunders in the basic storyline. Whereas Ep. II was brought down mainly by its horrendous execution, the problems with ROTS begin with the very basic path of the story. Yoda and Palpatine have a saber fight, for example. Dooku gets killed at the beginning and a new CG villain is introduced and killed off within an hour. That's why I was considering a completely different approach for Ep. III- a black and white noir film, with Anakin narrating and with flashbacks (a la "Laura", "Blade Runner"). This cut of the film would use classic Bernard Hermann music and completely excise General Grievous and all that nonsense, focusing entirely on Anakin, his narration, and his spiral downward. I would have incredible freedom in the story as a result of Anakin's narration.

Obviously this doesn't fit into the "Starkiller Ranch" idea, but this approach to Ep. III excites me much more than making the companion film to SOTDS and trying to salvage everything (which is nonetheless obligatory for me). This doesn't matter right now anyway- the funny thing is, I thought ROTS was pretty decent when I first saw it, but on subsequent viewings, I really began to dislike it.

Originally posted by: hairy_hen
The trailer for this looks like it's going well, and I'm very excited to see the finished product.

You mentioned the possibility of redubbing Mas Amadda's lines to get a better voice. He's the blue guy who says "O-dah!" etc. I'd be interested in doing that, to see if you liked how I did it. (If not, that's fine, lol.) I have done some acting and work with accents in the past, though not all that much.

Actually, I'm nervous of volunteering, but hey, it's worth a try at it.


Thanks so much for volunteering! PM sent

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman


H That's why I was considering a completely different approach for Ep. III- a black and white noir film, with Anakin narrating and with flashbacks (a la "Laura", "Blade Runner"). This cut of the film would use classic Bernard Hermann music and completely excise General Grievous and all that nonsense, focusing entirely on Anakin, his narration, and his spiral downward. I would have incredible freedom in the story as a result of Anakin's narration.

Obviously this doesn't fit into the "Starkiller Ranch" idea, but this approach to Ep. III excites me much more than making the companion film to SOTDS and trying to salvage everything (which is nonetheless obligatory for me).


This sounds like such a GREAT idea & something TOTALLY different to all the other Ep III edits, I say go with what you want!!!
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But we will still have Jar-Jar's speech. His character has to go somewhere in this movie; he has to be there for a reason. Just cutting him out doesn't seem to solve anything in the big picture.

Trooperman, I wasn't suggesting you cut Jar Jar's speech - just the visual closeups. It would be great if we could get the "meat" of Jar Jar's speech while only seeing him in the distance. Maybe we can even start to hear him as Mace walks in.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
- the funny thing is, I thought ROTS was pretty decent when I first saw it, but on subsequent viewings, I really began to dislike it.


I felt the same way. I loved it when I first saw it, but the more I watched it the more I hated it. There is just something about the movie that just isn't right.


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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
But we will still have Jar-Jar's speech. His character has to go somewhere in this movie; he has to be there for a reason. Just cutting him out doesn't seem to solve anything in the big picture.

Trooperman, I wasn't suggesting you cut Jar Jar's speech - just the visual closeups. It would be great if we could get the "meat" of Jar Jar's speech while only seeing him in the distance. Maybe we can even start to hear him as Mace walks in.

Right- I understand what you meant I was just clarifying as to why I didn't want to cut his speech altogether.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: calisto
Originally posted by: Trooperman


This sounds like such a GREAT idea & something TOTALLY different to all the other Ep III edits, I say go with what you want!!!


I guess the issue is that I probably only have time for one more Star Wars film...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Why?


You'll find out more about my personal situation later, but I'm going to have a lot less free time on my hands in the future. But I didn't mean that I'm definitely just going to do one more film and that's it. We'll see. And I certainly won't leave you all hanging with this new PT. I don't know; I'll think more about the whole thing after this film is out.

Oh- and I forgot to respond:

Nervous? Ol' TM's about the nicest guy on the boards.


I certainly wouldn't say that, but thanks anyway All of you guys are great; do any of you think I could've started a thread like this at a place like TF.net, and gotten this kind of support and help all of the way? You are all intelligent and give me great feedback and help, and keep me in check when I go too far with something. Every filmmaker or editor needs the voice of reason.

And all of the new character voices!- you're not going to believe it, but the current total of characters with new voices in this film alone is up to 9. Absolutely fabulous! Thank you to Nanner Split, Sluggo, Jeff Vitkuske, hairy_hen, and others for making it all possible. If everything goes to plan, I should have all of the dialogue besides hairy_hen's by the end of the week. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the audio track to this film bears almost no resemblance to the original one, in every aspect. Volume of the music, raw sound effects more in keeping with the originals, and an (intentionally) more ragged 70's feel. Not to say it won't sound extremely clean and professional, but in listening to the sections that have a finished sound mix, it has definitely lost the "modern" film sound. Which I think aesthetically is a good thing for this movie.

--------------

Just to keep you up-to-date on the progress, I am currently working on the clone war, which is unbelievably complex to tie together. It's the first time that I've actually considered storyboarding the action in preparation. Up until that point (besides the arena), I've pretty much hacked my way through the whole film. Many sections are extremely polished already and actually ready for final printing, colors and all, and others need quite a bit of audio work yet. The latter applies to most of the scenes with Anakin's voice. I have procured over a hundred outdoor ambiences and atmospheres to help in this task. They are all uncompressed and sound wonderful. I have very few indoor ambiences, however. A big challenge is making my voice and Portman's sound as if it's in the same space. Oftentimes, this involves not only altering my dialogue recordings, but hers as well.

Also worth mentioning is a weakness in this project I hadn't counted on; before, Portman's delivery went more unnoticed in the original, in contrast to Hayden. With the new recordings replacing Hayden, her acting really stands out as being awful in this film. This is the main negative effect of the dubbing I've experienced so far.

Anyway, we had a conversation several months ago about a critical moment in the movie- Anakin's rush at Dooku. I would like some of your input again, as to how we can make this justifiable and not suicidally stupid. To recap:

1. Dooku does not use force lightning.
2. Dooku basically force-pushes Anakin off-screen, by implication. Anakin runs, Obi-Wan yells "NO!". Dooku makes a gesture, and there's a close-up of Obi-Wan looking on in despair as the music builds. Cut to Anakin sprawled out on the floor. (This seems better artistically than actually seeing him thrown, but it's done because it was the only option!)
3. The idea was that Anakin was angry at Dooku for some reason. The reason we came up with was that for some reason, he thought that Dooku killed Padme.
4. This only makes sense if Dooku says something to that effect before Anakin's mad dash.

Any thoughts? Here's a link to the previous conversation: Page 29


Here's the other thing- who would be the best person to contact about the font of the end credits used in Star Wars? I specifically want to take out a few names (like Rick McCallum, Elan Sleazabaggano, and so on) and add many names. There are the obvious ones, but also all of those that have contributed to the thread that would like to be listed. I am absolutely clueless on the correct font/settings for this, however. In a few weeks, this will be something I'll need to tackle.

Thanks so much!

-TM

P.S. I have located the shot of black smoke rising in the air for the Coruscant interrogation scene that I was looking for. I'm not going to tell you what movie it's from, as it might distract you.

EDIT: What the heck. I colorized a shot from Citizen Kane But you wouldn't know if I hadn't told you...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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What's the deal with theforce.net? I've never been there, but I've heard it mentioned a lot lately (negatively).

This sounds better and better - can't wait to see the final product.
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
You'll find out more about my personal situation later.


Trooperman, you don't have to tell me anything, it is your personal business, and I completely respect that. I was just worried that maybe you were losing your desire to fix Lucas's disasters he calls movies.


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Heck no! My passion to create something great out of his awful movies is as strong as ever. I do, however, think it's possible that in between work on SOTDS and the next Starkiller project, I will do the noir film. What that will mean is that I will need the help of other editors to complete Ep. III in the Starkiller prequel set.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I just watched Episode 2 again this week to familiarise myself with it again, as I hadn't seen it since last summer, in preparation for making my recordings. I'll be starting those pretty soon, methinks.
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Originally posted by: hairy_hen
I just watched Episode 2 again this week to familiarise myself with it again, as I hadn't seen it since last summer, in preparation for making my recordings. I'll be starting those pretty soon, methinks.


Excellent! Everything is proceeding as planned....

Well, almost. I don't want any of you to get worried, but after I installed a heavy-duty piece of software on my computer (video related), I got a very interesting glitch in all of my SOTDS project files. It's kind of hard to explain, but what happened is that somehow, the frames in all of my individual clips or shots were moved forward two frames. In other words, in files when I changed things on a shot by shot basis (which is most of them), you'll be looking at a clip, and on the last 2 frames of that clip, it'll move to the next clip. Then, when you get to the REAL next clip, the colors and cropping change on the 3rd frame of that shot. Don't ask me how this happened as I have absolutely no idea.

This should still be out by Autumn; all it means is that I have a lot of annoying and brainless work to do to correct this problem. I'm leaving little details like this for later and am instead concentrating on finishing the movie in some form for the time being. I guess I should be lucky that this is the first technical problem I've encountered so far.

-----------
One more question for you: Do any of you know of any movies with really impressive explosions in the desert? Without anything that would prevent me from using it in SOTDS? As this clip demonstrates, I'm having to cheat a bit in the editing to imply something, much the way it was done in the original SW. But the last explosion in that clip (from Lawrence of Arabia) blends very badly with all of the other footage.

I'd hate to have to use this, but this is one of about two desert explosion clips that I have. Do any of you remember something similar from another film?

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I have it on good authority that Nute is being recorded today. Jar Jar hopefully next week.
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
One more question for you: Do any of you know of any movies with really impressive explosions in the desert? Without anything that would prevent me from using it in SOTDS? As this clip demonstrates, I'm having to cheat a bit in the editing to imply something, much the way it was done in the original SW. But the last explosion in that clip (from Lawrence of Arabia) blends very badly with all of the other footage.

I'd hate to have to use this, but this is one of about two desert explosion clips that I have. Do any of you remember something similar from another film?

-TM


This may sound crazy, but I believe there are some shots of stuff in the desert blowing up in Mr & Mrs Smith.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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hmm... I'm really stumped. other than a possible scene from terminator 2 or 3 where we see an explosion in the desert, I can't think of any other film in which I've seen something like that. Well besides RotJ ...and of course that's out.

The best I can figure for finding an explosion in a desert is to maybe give those mad max and Mummy movies a rent... sahara, scorpion king... a few of the ones I can think of that might have that in them.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
I have it on good authority that Nute is being recorded today. Jar Jar hopefully next week.

That's great news- thanks so much. The sooner the better, but take all the time you need. I really appreciate your taking on such a big ADR role.

Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper


This may sound crazy, but I believe there are some shots of stuff in the desert blowing up in Mr & Mrs Smith.


But isn't that in black and white? Correct me if I'm wrong...

I can't think of any other film in which I've seen something like that. Well besides RotJ ...and of course that's out.

Well, you know it isn't necessarily out. If I found something appropriate that I could recolor and recrop, I don't know if most people would pick up on it. It isn't preferable, though- you're right.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Hopefully I can find something that'll work...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition