logo Sign In

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 23

Author
Time
Post link
That's an excellent breakdown of what Episode 2 is all about, MTH.

With that structure in mind, after Anakin "stays the course" as you put it, he should be a committed, cool headed Jedi. His rushing in to face Dooku fits with his early character as an overconfident rebel, but over the course of the film he's matured. So the question becomes how to rectify the situation? In TM's original plans he was just going to cut away from the duel as soon the the three confronted each other, then cut back to reveal Anakin had been made quick work of. This would be very choppy however, and just wouldn't feel right. Add to that the RotS line, "This time we'll take him together." The idea was to remove force lightning from the duel, which is essential as well. But how can Anakin be taken out of the duel? A force push? The fact of the matter is it is a poorly conceived confrontation, and Dooku was made far too powerful for the sole purpose of giving Yoda someone to fight (which should have, and will be in this edit, been saved for Episode III). I honestly have no good ideas on solving this, but I’m sure someone in our esteemed think tank will be able to come up with something.

It’s interesting to note that major problems with TPM and AotC are the lack of a story arc for Anakin. We’ve discussed this before, but his character is all over the place in both films. He seems to have gradual, though sometimes sporadic, character growth through the course of the films, but at their climax he reverts back to who he was at the beginning. Luke maintained his development and matured over the course of the OT, as he was obviously not the same person he was at the beginning of ANH or ESB when those films had concluded.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Infodroid--
I think the story was supposed to be: Anakin grows in power, but emotionally feels drawn back to his mother-- in fact he feels her suffering. But as a Jedi, he's restrained from acting on these feelings and it eats him up worse than any Jedi before because he KNOWS he's right. He gets thrown together with the girl of his dreams and she tips the scales-- he faces too much temptation to remain a chaste Jedi. He reaches out to her and then dashes off to get his mom. But because he is too late, his mother dies in his arms and his Jedi faith is shattered. He resents his master for making mom die-- then he finds out his master is in trouble. He doesn't even want to go save the guy -- but the girl makes him. They end up in a deadly trap, but it's the right thing to do. Then he loses the girl and wants to throw it all away for her-- until he remembers that she wouldn't do that or want that. He stays the course...


It's funny, this actually sounds like a pretty decent story. I gotta say I love the cardboard archetypes line. The mythological aspect of this movie is the only thing that keeps me from tossing this movie out all together. But JEEZ!! this movie could have been so much more. It should have been Act II. It could have been the best of the prequels. Sure, Anakin had to fall in III, but these movies feel like George didn't follow the order. There was a definitite act I, then another act I and Episode III as an act II. Are the films in the classic trilogy now act III? I gotta lie down for a while.
Author
Time
Post link
Good comments on the overall feel, InfoDroid, MTH, and CC. I too am still thinking about how to solve the problem of the motivation for Anakin's run at Dooku.

Episode II only had a half a Wilhelm, or Wilhelm's cousin or whatever.

Very interesting! I will put a Wilhelm scream somewhere in the mix, maybe in the arena, if you insist

But JEEZ!! this movie could have been so much more.

You bet it could have been. And I would have done the romance much more differently. I would have an Anakin in his twenties fall in love with a complete stranger, an outsider that seduces him on his mission. Someone that doesn't care about the consequences for Anakin and has never met a Jedi before. A nightclub singer or someone like that. And this would happen while Anakin is on some kind of mission, rather than going to a romantic planet and having scene after scene of them sitting around talking and not doing anything else. But...the chance for that is gone and that's a different discussion entirely.

I'm working on the nightclub sequence and dropping in some shots from Blade Runner for a much darker feel to the thing. The original scene just seems far too sterile and harmless for my taste. I posted a little screenshot comparison for you to see:

Original Scene
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5893/night13zg.jpg
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1638/night29km.jpg

New Scene
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8192/nighta18wa.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9793/nighta20nu.jpg

You can see that I had to change the color scheme of the scene so that the different clips of footage will seem as though they're from the same sequence. Also, the two editing styles are different- it's much more claustrophobic in BR, which I like. So this is another sequence where I'll be needing to do a lot of cropping from the full-screen DVD to match. Plus, this will help in the establishing nightclub shot- the less we see the better because otherwise, it's harder to figure out what part of the room the BR shots are coming from. If it's just a crowded claustrophic mess, it's good- that's what it should be anyway. That's why Zam went in in the first place.

Comments or criticisms?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Well, since your tightening up on your editting plot, I thought I would throw in a couple of little ideas I had.

First, the scene where anakin is talking with watto in mos espa. At the end of the conversation, as you know, anakin intimidates watto into cutting the crap by puffing his face and say "i'd like to know". I thought what would be cooler is if you had anakin look at watto and then say something along the lines of " if you don't tell me , i'll tear both of those wings right off", THEN have the shot of padme looking from watto to anakin and then cut to watto's reaction of "sure , ah sure, lets go look at my records". If you get my meaning it should be something kind of funny......but in a "don't piss anakin off" sort of comedy. Just a thought.

Second, the scene where anakin is fighting dooku and gets his arm cutt off.......I remember watching in the theaters and thinking it was an awkward cut because anakin hardly made a groan. Since your doing the adr, maybe you could throw in a nice painful yell (similar to luke in ESB) to give the scene more of a shock effect. Maybe have the music effect the action as well with something creepy. Doing this would easily give the viewer the surprise of going " holy crap ani just got his army cut off".

I actually have a ton of ideas for further editting Episode One and three, but I'll have to save those for another day, namely whenever you decide to take those projects on. And finally, those shots of the outlander club with the creepier residents is a very nice step forward for that scene as well. Good luck trooper!


Author
Time
Post link
I like the Blade Runner stuff. As long as the coloration is consistent throughout, it should be fantastic.

Look, I know it's radical, and if implemented it would turn the entire structure on it's ear (and this project is an opportunity to do that), but...

Let me ask you this, have you ever considered starting the movie with Anakin and Padme already having been seeing each other in secret for some time? The assumption would be they somehow kept in contact over the years and had been having sort of secret love affair here and there when Anakin can get away, and then Palpatine knowingly and conveniently "suggests" that he and Obi-Wan go on this mission to protect her. This would eliminate SO much crappy, doting exposition. Most of the exposition would now rely on subtext, knowing glances. It would shut them both up without shutting the audience out of their character.

The fact is, Han and Leia never talked that much. They didn't need to. It was all in the subtext. "I love you." "I know." And so did we without a bunch of needless dialogue.

It would also change the central question of the film from "will he GET the girl?" (because it's inevitable he will), to "if he LOSES the girl, how will he get her back so they can get married and the twins can be born?"

This would make their emotional connection to each other much stronger. It's an opportunity to make Anakin more of an adult who's in an adult relationship instead of a whiney stalker-boy. It would also make Padme a little more willing to accept things like "If it works..." or "I killed them all" because now she's known this kid for ten years and she has much more emotionally invested in him. You don't have to lose the romantic scenes because it can be the first time they're together without having to sneak around. The scenes are essentially the same, but now they're in a completely new context.

The threat of their separation throughout the film becomes the silent villian and the moment when they do get separated at the end would be much more dramatic. In the hangar, Anakin rushes in to make quick work of Dooku because what he really wants to do is to go back and save Padme, and in a way, to show Obi-Wan he could've handled it himself. Remember, at this point he doesn't know if Padme's hurt or dead, and he won't let happen to her what happned to his mother. Unfortunately, since Dooku is a Sith Lord, it won't be quite that easy.

By the end of the duel, and I can't stress this enough, it is absolutely essential to the arc of the story that Anakin does something that changes the way Obi-Wan looks at him, and allows Obi-Wan to begin to treat him as an equal, paving the way for the growth of their relationship to what it becomes in ROTS. We never got that in AOTC. We got all this build-up, but ultimately no payoff for that story thread, which in my opinion amounts to nothing more than contempt for the audience.

Anyway, I know it's a whole new way of looking at things, and I don't know if it's even possible, but it's just another suggestion to consider and an opportunity to restructure the entire narrative.

Author
Time
Post link
Infodroid--

Radical idea -- as you promised it would be.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but that would not work emotionally for me. There are a number of reasons, but one might start with the premise you suggest that Han/Leia's romance worked fine "without needless dialogue."

quote: "The fact is, Han and Leia never talked that much. They didn't need to. It was all in the subtext. "I love you." "I know." And so did we without a bunch of needless dialogue."

That's simply not true -- Han and Leia have tons of dialogue in ESB and all of it, every single "I'd sooner kiss a wookie!" is building the romance. They even have all that terrific ANH dialogue to build upon. Their romance works in part because they are such unlikely lovers -- they seem so at odds and argue so much. But when a little tenderness creeps in, we feel how natural their love could be; how complementary they could be.

The problem in Episode II at the concept level isn't really that big -- the romance of Anakin and Padme is dramatic and full of trouble because of their different backgrounds and vows of chastity. They are forbidden to love and know it will cause only trouble. They swear to supress their feelings. Yet circumstance and desire pulls them together against their better judgment and they choose to marry in secret.

That's not bad. Not great, but not bad. It could use another wrinkle -- a personality conflict of greater weight and a better drama to pull them together -- but the skeleton there is okay.

The problem is that these elements are told so f**king poorly!

I think your suggestion would be interesting to see, but I can tell I would like it less. It's not taking best advantage of the footage we have if they were already secretly lovers instead of just now becoming lovers -- not in my opinion.

Making them lovers already gives them less, not more drama. If they're already lovers, what happens in this story to threaten that? Not much aside from a momentary attack of reason when Padme says this just can't be, she won't give in. If they're already lovers, that beat won't even make sense.

I am optimistic the changes Trooperman plans will make this the romance of a worthy and humble Jedi apprentice who loves a queen from afar, gets paired with her as a guard, and wins her love. Trimming the dialogue/massaging the action and letting us into Anakin's head via his dreams of Shmi are all going to make this the story it was always trying to be.

Author
Time
Post link
TM: I too am still thinking about how to solve the problem of the motivation for Anakin's run at Dooku.

***

I have an idea.

The question: Why does Anakin run at Dooku? The potential answer: He doesn't.

After watching the duel over an over thinking about it, I see these as the basic beats:

Anakin and Kenobi run in and skirt the edge of Dukoo's lair, Dukoo bristles -- ready to fight.

Kenobi says "we go together"; Anakin says "I take him now!" Anakin runs in and gets blasted into the wall.

Dukoo threatens Kenobi with force lightening -- fails. He draws his sabre and they duel/chat/duel/chat/duel -- we cut away to Padme, then back for more -- duel/chat until Dukoo swipes Kenobi's arm, leg and prepares to kill him...

Suddenly Anakin's there again, blocking Dukoo's sabre. Kenobi tosses him his own sabre and Anakin uses 2 swords to fight Dukoo's 1.

Dukoo cuts one sword down. Anakin and Dukoo fight in close-up; close-up; close-up

Dukoo slices off Anakin's arm and force-pushes him back, landing on Kenobi.

That sucked.

What I don't like is the pointless rush-in-and-die move by Anakin; the big cut-away scene to Padme; and the big pauses in the Kenobi/Dukoo fight.

I just don't like the way this fight plays out very much. Without being able to reshoot the entire thing, what can be done to make what's there a lot more exciting? --My answer? CUT OUT THE PAUSES. Get rid of the Padme cutaway; the big pauses; the Anakin rush-in.

Here's what I might mean:

Anakin and Kenobi rush in and skirt Dukoo's space warily. Kenobi says "We'll take him together" and Anakin never says a damned thing.

Dukoo draws his sword and Kenobi rushes him. Kenobi and Dukoo fight in close up after close up. No pauses. No dialogue. Just all the fighting cut together. No cut away to Padme. Just fighting. Cut to Anakin in close up, standing. The context implies he can't find a way to get into the fight. Then-- Dukoo wounds Kenobi and down he goes. Without hesitation, Dukoo goes for the kill--

And Anakin jumps in. Kenobi tosses him the other sabre and the fight continues. No halting, no pausing (except to see Yoda coming) until Dukoo cuts off Anakin's arm-- (GREAT IDEA UPTHREAD TO MAKE THIS BEAT TERRIFYING WITH A HOWLING SCREAM SIMILAR TO WHEN LUKE LOSES HIS HAND).

Anakin gets tossed over to Kenobi and Dukoo finally pauses to catch his breath.

That's the idea in a nutshell -- let the relentlessness of Dukoo's attack make this fight special -- this would be the most relentless fight of the trilogy. Dukoo would become the guy who just doesn't f**k around.

The Anakin story up to this point is that of an apprentice who feels challenged, then loses faith, then finds faith again and goes into battle with his mentor -- In watching Dukoo and Kenobi fight, Anakin is building up his courage to jump in and play with the big Jedi -- something he hasn't had to do before. But when it counts-- he comes through.

The Padme material should, in my opinion, ALL be cut. She doesn't need to be seen here. Let the sequence end as Yoda gets his stick back and sees his crumpled allies and realizes they're in serious trouble. He sighs and we wipe out before Padme and the clones run in.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MTHaslett

There are a number of reasons, but one might start with the premise you suggest that Han/Leia's romance worked fine "without needless dialogue."

That's simply not true -- Han and Leia have tons of dialogue in ESB and all of it, every single "I'd sooner kiss a wookie!" is building the romance.

___________________________________________________________________

MTHaslett, if every single "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee" is moving the plot forward, or revealing character, or "building the romance" then it wouldn't classify as "needless", would it?

By needless I mean superfluous - beating us over the head with information we already know or simply stating the obvious. One of the most important rules of writing screenplays is that you don't tell when you can show.

The point I was trying to make is that ESB is never dragged down by redundant, expository, non-entertaining dialogue. Han never turned to Chewbacca and said "I haven't see her since she gave me that medal on Yavin IV after we helped Luke blow up the Death Star, Chewie. I've thought about her every day since we parted, but... She's forgotten me completely."

THAT dialogue, in my opinion, certainly falls into the "needless" category, the likes of which AOTC and TPM are rife with.

Good romantic dialogue: "We need? ... What about you need?"
"I need? ... I don't know what you're talking about."
"Probably don't."

Bad romantic dialogue: "Believe me, I wish that I could just wish away my feelings, but I can't."
"I will not give into this. If you follow your thoughts through to conclusion you will find they take us to a place we cannot go."

First of all, is Natalie Portman capable of using a contraction? Or is she one of the Stepford Wives? Secondly, has George Lucas forgotten the words sub-text, insinuation, innuendo, allusion, overtone, undercurrent? The only scene in AOTC which I felt really accomplished this at a level even close to the OT is the scene between Jango and Obi-Wan on Kamino. For some reason, that scene always makes me think of Cloud City.

Anyway, my idea of having Anakin and Padme already be lovers at the start would be a challenge to pull off successfully, and you're probably right about it, MTH. From reading your posts, I think you have a pretty good sensibility about these sorts of things and I usually find myself agreeing with you. I would, however, eventually like to see someone try to make it work.

I like the points you brought up about the pacing of the duel. It would definitely make Dooku seem more malevolent than he originally came across, which would be a very helpful addition to his character at that point in the story. But, one thing that concerns me is your suggestion to cut Padme out of the final scenes of the film. While I agree it distracts from what we should be focused on at that particular moment, what alternative are you offering? She falls off the ship, and boom, next time we see her they're getting married?

Respectfully,

--InfoDroid

Author
Time
Post link
And Trooperman, PLEASE consider excising the Banking Clan guy from Dooku's conference room! Seriously, he looks like the stretched-out corpse of Peter Cushing. It needs to go.

Author
Time
Post link
I'm stunned by what I'm seeing in those pictures. Well done.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
Author
Time
Post link
So if the Blade Runner idea works, could we have a Harrison Ford cameo? This would take care of many of the criticisms that the prequels have no Han Solo.
Author
Time
Post link
Infodroid

quote: "By needless I mean superfluous - beating us over the head with information we already know or simply stating the obvious."

***

I understand you now-- ESB had a lack of "pointless" dialogue, emphasis on "pointless."

Totally agree, and Episode II goes many steps in the opposite direction-- not only do they say EVERYTHING, but they say it poorly, and in a way that undermines any interesting characterization. I mean, it's easy to want to like a young woman who's tough and capable enough to lead her people into war-- but when she talks like Padme does here, none of that matters. She's made uninteresting by what "the way she talks" says about who she is.

But I'd have to be shown what making them lovers from the start does to help things. You'd get to avoid all the "confessions" of love, more or less. That's a start in the right direction.

I guess I'm drawn more to the opportunity of trying to whittle down the dialogue until the scenes are full of subtext. The boy-meets-girl story here is one of the major dramatic forces of the movie. Shifting it so their romance has been going on longer may punch up the ending, but the middle will suffer a lot.

I see clearly how you get the concepts that foster good dialogue-- I'll have to think more about what you're proposing. Maybe I'm just not seeing the real benefits that are actually there.

-----

I'm glad you see something in my ideas for Dukoo.

You bring up a good point about cutting out all the Padme stuff from the duel. The problem, as I see it, is that while it's nice to see her again before the wedding-- everything we see is so bad.

Here's my solution: As Dukoo gets away and Yoda picks up his stick, looking pretty down in the mouth-- the music hits a somber key and we cut to the shot of Padme lying lifeless in the sand until a clone runs up to her and she stirs to life... Cut to Anakin lying in a heap and continue from there. Postpone their reunion until we hear that Anakin's taking her back to Naboo and then cut to the wedding.

With Trooperman's ability to add Anakin dialogue, I think that the one place it might be nice to add some is at the wedding. If Anakin said a great line of dialogue that was charming and at the same time indicated his change and resolution to dedicate himself to the Republic and everything Padme stands for -- it would bring a resolution to the film that is really lacking. The original cut really just kind of ends.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Here's what I might mean:

Anakin and Kenobi rush in and skirt Dukoo's space warily. Kenobi says "We'll take him together" and Anakin never says a damned thing.

Dukoo draws his sword and Kenobi rushes him. Kenobi and Dukoo fight in close up after close up. No pauses. No dialogue. Just all the fighting cut together. No cut away to Padme. Just fighting. Cut to Anakin in close up, standing. The context implies he can't find a way to get into the fight. Then-- Dukoo wounds Kenobi and down he goes. Without hesitation, Dukoo goes for the kill--

And Anakin jumps in. Kenobi tosses him the other sabre and the fight continues. No halting, no pausing (except to see Yoda coming) until Dukoo cuts off Anakin's arm-- (GREAT IDEA UPTHREAD TO MAKE THIS BEAT TERRIFYING WITH A HOWLING SCREAM SIMILAR TO WHEN LUKE LOSES HIS HAND).

Anakin gets tossed over to Kenobi and Dukoo finally pauses to catch his breath.

That's the idea in a nutshell -- let the relentlessness of Dukoo's attack make this fight special -- this would be the most relentless fight of the trilogy. Dukoo would become the guy who just doesn't f**k around.

The Anakin story up to this point is that of an apprentice who feels challenged, then loses faith, then finds faith again and goes into battle with his mentor -- In watching Dukoo and Kenobi fight, Anakin is building up his courage to jump in and play with the big Jedi -- something he hasn't had to do before. But when it counts-- he comes through.

The Padme material should, in my opinion, ALL be cut. She doesn't need to be seen here. Let the sequence end as Yoda gets his stick back and sees his crumpled allies and realizes they're in serious trouble. He sighs and we wipe out before Padme and the clones run in.
This would be a great improvement to the duel. It would cut the Dooku/Obi-Wan dialogue that doesn't make any sense, and tie into the RotS line, implying Anakin needs to get right into the battle that time around. My only reservation would be cutting Dooku and Anakin's little exchange: "Brave of you boy. I would have thought you'd had learned your lesson," "I am a slow learner." That's my favorite Anakin line from the film, but it just won't fit into this scenario unless Dooku's line can be altered to refer to taking care of Obi-Wan so quickly (which is possible). Also may I suggest the shot of Dooku activating his saber come from the Yoda portion of the duel, as that salute he does is a great shot, far better than when he turns on his blade to face Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Here's my solution: As Dukoo gets away and Yoda picks up his stick, looking pretty down in the mouth-- the music hits a somber key and we cut to the shot of Padme lying lifeless in the sand until a clone runs up to her and she stirs to life... Cut to Anakin lying in a heap and continue from there. Postpone their reunion until we hear that Anakin's taking her back to Naboo and then cut to the wedding.

With Trooperman's ability to add Anakin dialogue, I think that the one place it might be nice to add some is at the wedding. If Anakin said a great line of dialogue that was charming and at the same time indicated his change and resolution to dedicate himself to the Republic and everything Padme stands for -- it would bring a resolution to the film that is really lacking. The original cut really just kind of ends.

Padme's stuff creates quite a problem indeed. The scene where she wakes up in the sand is pretty lame, but I don't think it would work if she just comes charging in with the clones at the end firing at Dooku's ship, would it? And where would her recovery fit? Anyway, these are great ideas and I hopw TM doesn't mind having to re-cut the duel again to incorporate them.

As for the end of the film, I see what you're saying MTH, but in keeping in true Star Wars tradition, the film must end with music and music alone.

Originally posted by: InfoDroid
And Trooperman, PLEASE consider excising the Banking Clan guy from Dooku's conference room! Seriously, he looks like the stretched-out corpse of Peter Cushing. It needs to go.

I second that! People complain about the Tech Union dude, I actually liked him. But that Banking Clan guy...*cringe*.
Author
Time
Post link
Commander Courage:
"As for the end of the film, I see what you're saying MTH, but in keeping in true Star Wars tradition, the film must end with music and music alone."

***

Well that is the only thing I like about the end we got-- but I would direct you to the final shots of ESB where there is dialogue up to the point where the Millenium Falcon pulls away-- My suggestion is to emulate this and restrict whatever great line we can come up with (IF we can come up with it) to the front end of the marriage scene so that the music carries on quite a while before the credits. If we could nail the line, this would be an improvement-- but if we can't, then it's best to leave it alone I agree.

----

quote: Padme's stuff creates quite a problem indeed. The scene where she wakes up in the sand is pretty lame, but I don't think it would work if she just comes charging in with the clones at the end firing at Dooku's ship, would it?

***

True-- that would be awkward. I think the whole thing of her charging in and firing at Dooku is bad though-- Natalie Portman just doesn't know how to handle a blaster. My thought is she should be found by the clone and then not seen again until the wedding. The scene where she runs up and greets Anakin with his arm cut off doesn't feel right -- didn't she notice his arm is missing? It has a fake sense of just "wrapping things up." I think it would improve things to leave them a little jagged -- to be sorted out as the Jedi talk and the (surprise, surprise) we cut to the wedding.

I think, at least, this would play. Maybe Trooperman has already addressed this stuff?

Author
Time
Post link
That would probably work, MTH. As long as we get a quick shot of her getting up at some point, preferably without dialogue, then it 'll work. We just need to know she's not dead or something. All we need to see is the clone coming over to her and helping her up. Problem solved. Cut out the "We've got to get to that hangar." And the rest of that crap.

Author
Time
Post link
I'd just like to go ahead and support this idea of keeping padme unconscience until the clone gets her after the dooku battle. I thought it sound weird at first, but the more I thought about it, the more fitting it will look. Good idea.

Author
Time
Post link
This may not be the best way, but it's the way I came up with editing everything together:
-Anakin and Obi-Wan approach Dooku.
-"You're gonna pay for all the Jedi you killed today Dooku," or a similar line.
-New Dooku line in wideshot: "Indeed" from Clone Wars (I know it's not Christopher Lee but it sounds exactly like him in that instance). He knows the Jedi are no match for him, and is amused by Anakin's statement.
-"We'll take him together."
-Dooku ignites saber and salutes Jedi (from begining of Yoda duel).
Obi-Wan charges at Dooku, they fight. All dialogue is cut.
-Anakin watches not knowing how or when to intervene (possibly coming from cropping full screen DVD, zooming in on Anakin and slowing down footage with duel soundeffects in background).
-Dooku cuts Obi-Wan, says to Anakin, "As you can see my Jedi powers are far beyond yours." (not sure how to accomplish this exchange) "Abilities" or "skills" would be a preferable term to plug into that line though. Heck, maybe even, "As you can see, my skills with a lightsaber are far beyond yours," or any combination of unused lines from the Yoda duel.
-Dooku raises saber for the kill. No twirling or hesitation, or CGI jumping Anakin. His saber comes out of nowhere to save Obi-Wan.
-"Brave of you boy. I would have thought you'd had learned your lesson." "I am a slow learner." Dooku is referring to making quick work of Obi-Wan.
-Duel continues, Anakin's second saber is cut away by Dooku.
-CUT to Padme recovered in the desert.
-CUT back to duel, Anakin and Dooku fighting in shadow.
-TM's plans from then on: Yoda, etc. Padme arrives with clones to shoot at Dooku's ship and embrace Anakin.

Not perfect, but a rough outline of a possible scenario.
_________________________________________________
EDIT: I moved Dooku turning on his saber to inbetween Obi-Wan's line and his action. This way the cut isn't to choppy.
Author
Time
Post link
Commander Courage
Great work, good throughline of how to use the footage. Let's hope Trooperman agrees:-)

I see you preserve the rescue and arrival of Padme with the Clones-- I guess your take is the sequence works better with that stuff in.

Can you help me get over my problem with that footage?-- what makes that stuff work for you?

Author
Time
Post link
Question for Trooperman regarding a different scene,

How would you feel about using a different musical cue for Shmi's death scene? Like say maybe, the "Burning Homestead" track from ANH? Might resonate as a nice little emotional echo no matter which order you watch the saga in.

Author
Time
Post link
In my edit I was thinking of having the events play out like this at the end battle.

-Padme falls off ship
-Arguement with Anakin and, Kenobi
-They follow Dooku a little bit after
-Padme gets up while telling clone to get to the hanger
-They follow Dooku to the place that they fight
-Yoda asks for a ship
-The fighting
-Yoda comes they fight
-Padme arrives after the fighting
-The rest of the ending

Though for this edit it could go something like this.

-Padme falls off of ship
-Arguement with Anakin and, Kenobi
-Yoda asks for a ship
-Padme gets up saying yes to going to the command center(I have the audio for padme saying yes in that scene if Trooperman needs it.)
-They follow dooku
-fight sequence
-ending

Also, since I see that Trooperman is asking for more suggestions. One scene that's always seemed a bit ackward to me was, the one after the nightmare he has. Mostly because, he says "I'm sorry, I don't have a choice." After she already agreed to go with him. Plus, he's gesturing with out speaking in the middle. Mabye having him say "But, I have to go. I'm sorry I don't have a choice. I have to help her." Possibly using the fullscreen DVD to get more of a closeup on her when, she says "I'll go with you". Plus, since your dubbing Anakin, you could make him sound little more(just a little though) forcefull "I have to go. I don't have a choice. I have to help her."

Also, I really like the new look for the bar. It's much more crowded.

http://twister111.tumblr.com
Previous Signature preservation link

Author
Time
Post link

There are some great ideas and contributions floating about here with regard to the latter part of the film and, in general, I agree with most of them, however I must put on record my disagreement to what is being put forward by some folk about Anakin’s roll in the Dooku duel.

The idea of Anacin ‘holding back’ while Obi goes it alone with Dooku (even for a short time) seems incongruous to me. Irrespective of dialogue, I found Anacin rushing in before Obi a very natural action in view of what his character is and how his character has acted (and acts thereafter) in the film(s). I think it would be a mistake to suddenly have him gain either a measure of restraint, or worse still, uncertainty (in not knowing how or when to join the battle), after a) what he had just gone through and b) that he was fighting one of the most dangerous foes of his life. Although GL has messed up many scenes and aspects within the film, Anacin being disobedient and running at Dooku at this point in time fits perfectly. Apart from it being what he would do (IMHO) I also like the idea that he is fired up by Padme’s fall and wants someone to blame, as well as him wanting to get back to her as soon as possible. I’m not saying that that part of the scene doesn’t need some treatment, it is just rewarding to see Anakin’s impetuousness and the instant punishment he get for it.

I realise that it is all just my opinion and, more importantly, I don’t want to offend anyone (so please don’t be), but I see this possible edit as showing Anakin in an uncharacteristic light when you want clarity at this stage of the film.

I just wanted to put forward an opposing opinion… It’s up to Trooperman in the last, and I like everything he has done so far – and I’m scared by how good this project is turning out to be!

Cheers
Author
Time
Post link
Good points you bring up, Arklaine. It does seem to contradict Anakin's character. I think the main problem is how do you avoid Dooku's lightning, and not make it seem as though Anakin is standing there letting Obi-Wan get hacked up? Not being able to "get into the fight" is not a good enough excuse.

Author
Time
Post link
Has Trooperman done away with the idea of force lightning for Dooku entirely?

I’ve not read right back down the thread for a while so I can’t remember the specifics, but I thought he was going with the idea of Dooku being a Sith… However, I admit I don’t know the mythology (for the prequels, at least) well enough to know whether that validates force lightning in itself?

I certainly didn’t have a problem with him using it, even though Plap’s other boys never saw the need… Maul was more of a swordsman, and Vader was more of a sliced up despot who controlled through force of will and, er, THE force. I felt the variety of the apprentices and their abilities gave the three new films a bit more interest than they might have had.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
I see you preserve the rescue and arrival of Padme with the Clones-- I guess your take is the sequence works better with that stuff in.

Can you help me get over my problem with that footage?-- what makes that stuff work for you?
I just think it's essential to see what happened to our other main character during the course of the end battle. Also, this would pad out the duel to make it appear longer, especially since Obi-Wan is going to be taken care of so quickly. Unlike in AotC, we should care about Padme in SotDS (), and want to know what happens to her. It just wouldn't feel right IMO to have her fall off the ship, a possiibly fatal accident, and then not see her again until all of the remaining action has concluded. I'm trying to think of another example in Star Wars to support my case, but none comes to mind unfortunately. I just feel her presence is necessary for both the flow of the finale and her importane as one of the Big 3 of the PT.

Originally posted by: twister111
In my edit I was thinking of having the events play out like this at the end battle.

-Padme falls off ship
-Arguement with Anakin and, Kenobi
-They follow Dooku a little bit after
-Padme gets up while telling clone to get to the hanger
-They follow Dooku to the place that they fight
-Yoda asks for a ship
-The fighting
-Yoda comes they fight
-Padme arrives after the fighting
-The rest of the ending

That's also a good way to change things up. Though we lose the breaking-up of the duel which might result in it feeling only 2 minutes long.

Originally posted by: Arklaine
I just wanted to put forward an opposing opinion… It’s up to Trooperman in the last, and I like everything he has done so far – and I’m scared by how good this project is turning out to be!

Don't worry nobody is offended, at least they shouldn't be. This is all about sharing thoughts and suggestions to get the best possible product out of Episode 2. I can see where your argument is coming from, too. Trooperman really needs to get back in here and make a few comments before things get totally out of control.
Author
Time
Post link
Arklaine

quote: "I think it would be a mistake to suddenly have him gain either a measure of restraint, or worse still, uncertainty (in not knowing how or when to join the battle), after a) what he had just gone through and b) that he was fighting one of the most dangerous foes of his life. Although GL has messed up many scenes and aspects within the film, Anacin being disobedient and running at Dooku at this point in time fits perfectly"

***

What you may not have seen is this edit tones Anakin down and limits all his impulsiveness to choices that come up around saving his mom. He doesn't over-reach anymore about how to protect Padme, solve the mystery of her assassin, or even to hit on the woman he loves. He's a model of restraint until he just can't take it and has to try to save his mom.

He also no longer "saved" Obi Wan or did anything impressive as a Jedi except jump out of the speeder while chasing Zam and do a Force-mind trick on the horned beast in the ring. So for him to rush in wildly at this point, disobeying Obi Wan and launching into battle with an obviously powerful Jedi (Dukoo) is no longer in character.

Personally, I found the action in the original cut to be just the thousandth example of his lack of discipline and the millionth reason why I didn't like the guy. Whatever happens at this point in the film, Anakin's action is one of the crowning decisions in the story. What does it say when he rushes in? He blames Dukoo for losing Padme? Maybe-- but we'd better amp up that sense of loss because it reads to me more like he just feels overconfident and pissed -- Losing Padme would excite more grief and stone-cold revenge seeking. "You're going to pay for killing the woman I love" -- Not "You're going to pay for all the jedi you killed today."

But Trooperman is seeing the footage and will have to go with what he thinks works best.