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Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 18

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Very impressive, especially the nightmare and balcony scenes. I'm greatly looking forward to this.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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If it's feedback you want, it's feedback I got!

The nightmare looks AWESOME. The only thing I would be against is the overlaying of Anakin squirming in bed. We should see what he sees in the dream, and then CUT to the close up of his eyes snapping open. This would fit-in with the way the dreams were done in RotS.

The shot of the guard in the Naboo ship seems squeezed horizontally. Maybe it's a after effect of you cropping it from full screen, and it'll looks fine in motion.

The platform shot looks fine; I guess you just wanted a closer view of the explosion.

The de-saturated shot of Coruscant is EXCELLENT. It looks REAL!!! And although I have no idea of your reason for flipping the shot, it looks even better that way!

The binary sunest looks very washed out and faded, but I assume this is to match the new color scheme of the scene and not be an exact copy of the one from ANH.

Excellent work on the balcony. Before everything looked too blue, as you noted. My only concern with these shots is that their faces seem to be a bit grainy. Of course this maybe nothing and it might look fine in motion.

It's so great to finally see our ideas being realized! Keep up the good work, you're a real Trooper, man. (Ok, that was lame. Sorry.)
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Trooperman:

Perfectly awesome.

The new cropping has great impact. You improve the shots and make the worlds feel more real. One thing Ep III did was make Coruscant seem more used and real-- your new shots give me the same impression.

The dream shots are great-- just seeing them makes the whole movie better. Now we know why Anakin's going nuts.

My favorites here are the balcony shots. Great "day for night." More romantic and, knowing how we have talked about the romance, I love what you're doing.

Great work!

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After MTHaslett's reponse I hope I didn't sound too critcal. I was just trying to be constructive!
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Hey trooperman, I have a couple of questions about this exciting and so far awesome looking fan edit of AOTC: (I'm sorry if these have already been asked, but I haven't seen them.. Sorry, I'm a noob)

1. Whens it gonna be done? (no pressure)
2. When it is done how can I get it... will there be a bittorent out for it, or will I have to buy a copy or something?
3. Finally, I heard your voicing over Anakin's voice... how that going?

Sorry if these have already been asked, but thanks!
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I’m sorry that I’ve been so bad about responding to all these comments; I had to do another quick movie for a friend of mine and that took up my spare time this week.

Nanner Split- I can’t wait to see this either. You don’t know how rewarding it’ll be when I’m finally able to sit down with the disc in the player and watch it the way I’ve always wanted to.

Commander Courage- Whether you’re sounding critical or not, you’re the one that pointed out things to watch out for, and therefore your advice is extremely valuable and I like it. It’s very good when people critique my work because it’s easy to subconsciously gloss over the faults when you were the one to do it in the first place; a fresh, unbiased pair of eyes is great. So…please keep it up

Nightmare scene- This is one scene that I had to put a great deal of thought into as I was synchronizing music and sound. Basically, I was in quandary and I had two choices. I could have the music climax at the end of the dream as Anakin’s eyes pop open (then the music dies down as Anakin calms down (realizing it’s a dream) and we have transition to next scene. OR…the music keeps building even after Anakin wakes up (and his eyes pop open- punctuated by brass) so that we climax on the transition. I chose the latter because it gives me the feeling that Anakin is deeply worried about this and that this is an important point in the movies. If we climax as Anakin wakes up, the music dies down afterwards (as he thinks about it), and this gives you a kind of resolution that we don’t want- it should keep building and building until the next scene. The score kind of blurs dream and reality (the scary music continues even after Anakin wakes up). I did prototypes of each method of cutting and music, and this way gave much greater impact.

Therefore, if the music does not climax as Anakin wakes up, then it follows that this is not an important point to the scene (the fact that he woke up, the fact that it’s a dream, and so on). Therefore, crossfading the dream with Anakin in bed (with the slow zoom) gives a wonderful frantic feeling with the music that even after he wakes up, the dream is still very much with him. I’m not sure if I’m being very clear at all (if not I apologize) but I think you’ll agree upon seeing it. I think it’s OK that it doesn’t exactly match up with the ROTS dream, because this is the first dream we’ve seen and it seems OK that it could be made special or different.

Thinking into the future, what I had in mind for the ROTS dream was the wonderful musical chord and general film style of the dream from Hitchcock’s “Vertigo”. You see the woman falling (accompanied by frantic strings) and then there’s a wonderful dramatic chord as it cuts to Jimmy Stewart sitting up it bed and staring at camera. He’s gone crazy. This whole thing worked very well and seems like it can be carried over into Anakin’s situation. Consider the parallel- Stewart’s character is feeling guilty because he let the man die at the beginning of the film, because he was not strong enough to save him (his vertigo).

Anakin was not strong enough to save Shmi either, and it weighs heavily on his conscience.


Padme: You’re not all-powerful, Anakin.
Anakin: You’re damn right I’m not. I’m weak. But someday I will be. Someday I will become…(etc.)

But when Stewart is not strong enough to save the woman from the bell tower, he goes insane. Anakin is going insane just by the thought that he won’t be able to save Padme. So the music and the style of this dream will be in the style of the one in “Vertigo”. Another interesting parallel- Stewart becomes INFURIATED at the end of the movie when he realizes that it was a trick and that the woman was not what he thought she was. Anakin will become even more livid in my ROTS because he suspects (or finds out) that something is going on romantically between Padme and Obi-Wan (on top of the fact that she actually showed up with Obi-Wan). I want to put back this subplot whether the deleted scenes are available or not.


“The shot of the guard in the Naboo ship seems squeezed horizontally. Maybe it's a after effect of you cropping it from full screen, and it'll looks fine in motion.”

It does look fine in motion, but it is squeezed- you’re right. I must have messed up the full-screen to anamorphic equation. I’ll go back and fix that shot. The reason I cropped it is because I edited “Very good, lieutenant,” out of the mix and you could see lip flap even from the back view.

“The platform shot looks fine; I guess you just wanted a closer view of the explosion.”

Yes, and it also looks more realistic. But the biggest reason I did it is because I hate the way everything looks so perfect, new, CG, and symmetrical in the PT. Notice how perfectly the explosion seems to be framed. A closer shot throws off the balance and looks more realistic.

“The de-saturated shot of Coruscant is EXCELLENT. It looks REAL!!! And although I have no idea of your reason for flipping the shot, it looks even better that way!”

Thank you; sometime I’ll have to post screenshots of the Council room, Palpatine’s office, etc. because they’ve been de-saturated a lot as well.

“The binary sunest looks very washed out and faded, but I assume this is to match the new color scheme of the scene and not be an exact copy of the one from ANH.”

Yes- I can try to sharpen it up, though.

“Excellent work on the balcony. Before everything looked too blue, as you noted. My only concern with these shots is that their faces seem to be a bit grainy. Of course this maybe nothing and it might look fine in motion.”

I had noticed this graininess as well, actually. It appears to be a side-effect of the chroma-key work that was necessary so that we don’t have bright green plants during the nighttime. I will work on smoothing this out, although it does look better in motion.

“Keep up the good work, you're a real Trooper, man. (Ok, that was lame. Sorry.)”

Ha ha! Lame, yes. That’s my sense of humour right there, though.



“Perfectly awesome.

The new cropping has great impact. You improve the shots and make the worlds feel more real. One thing Ep III did was make Coruscant seem more used and real-- your new shots give me the same impression.”

Thank you, MTHaslett. This is a very big part of the work I’m doing on this- playing with the colors and desaturating, cropping, flipping, and doing other things to improve the CGI. I’m glad you liked it- I will post more examples.

Welcome to the forum, Darth Newmancer!

1. “Whens it gonna be done? (no pressure)”
The simple answer is…I don’t know. However, I know that people like to have dates and deadlines, so I will say that this will be done in one form or another BEFORE next Labor Day. I can’t say how much before.

2. “When it is done how can I get it... will there be a bittorent out for it, or will I have to buy a copy or something?”
You will not have to buy a copy. You will get it for free one way or the other (aside from shipping and blank discs). The story is that I’m not going to be able to distribute these myself. It’s too risky and time-consuming for me. What I’m going to do is send out 1st generation copies to those who’ve helped me, and then I’ll send a few discs to people who are willing to distribute them to whoever wants them, at no extra charge. And knowing Rikter, I’m almost sure it’ll eventually wind up on Bittorent.

3. “Finally, I heard your voicing over Anakin's voice... how that going?”
It’s going quite well- obviously I’m not finished yet, but I’ve definitely made a dent in the dubbing work. I still haven’t completed dubbing the balcony/fireside scene, however. When I dub, I usually do the whole scene in one session, even if I had lines left over from previous days. This is because I don’t want voice variances within the same scene (dry throat, time of day, etc.).


Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Trooperman: I think that your doing a good job. I think that the dream could be effective with a hard cut to "no mom, no.". Since your dubbing Anakin you could make it sound that it's even worse then we see("no, no, MOTHER!"). Also, for something that I'm doing for my edit in the future is that any footage I'll use for the dream will be flipped. I don't know if this is something that you would want to consider but, that's what I'm going to do(mostly to avoid a deja vu effect I get when viewing other dreams in movies, though that might already be avoided by the color/speed your using and, in motion it won't be noticable.). I also, like how you did the Balcony scene. I like how the shots seem more real as, well.*thumbs up*


http://twister111.tumblr.com
Previous Signature preservation link

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Don't worry about timely responses TM; we all know you're a busy man and you'll get around to it eventually. Most of us don't have all day to spend on the forum anyway. I'm glad you appreciate the input, and that's what makes this project so great. People like Rebel_1138, MTHaslett, and myself working along with you to put together the best possible version of Epsiode II. You answered all my questions in regards to your last post, and I eagerly await your next update. As for the ever-brought-up release date, how does May 2006 sound, in keeping with true Star Wars tradition?
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Thanks for the feedback.

Twister- that's a good idea (cutting away to Anakin during the dream) but I don't think it fits with the style of the dream I've established. The mechanics of the dream are pretty much finalized at this point. About avoiding deja-vu: I'm pretty sure that throughout the course of this dream, there is not one shot identical to any other shot in the movie (or any of the movies, for that matter). I've cropped from full-screen, flipped shots, and messed with the color so much that this will probably be a non-issue. One change I've made since the last post was that I've flopped both of the shots of Anakin in bed, because I like it better and also because now, his face and his mother's are not quite on top of each other anymore. I couldn't fip the shot of Shmi anyway because there's the continuity problem with her large scar.

Commander Courage- I can try to get it out by May 2006. But I don't want to commit

I think I have a good recording of the balcony dub. I believe I solved the "corniness" problem by recording this when I had a cold and a sore throat. For some reason, when I dubbed under these conditions, the whole thing came out very well.
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And at this point, I would like to have a discussion about the lack of the Yoda/Qui-Gon scene on the DVD for inclusion in Episode III. This irks me because now, it looks as though there will be no explanation of how to become a force ghost. Maybe a simpler solution is called for…

Maybe, all Jedi can talk to other force-trained people after their deaths. But perhaps Obi-Wan is the first one to figure out how to actually come back as a ghost, and that’s why he disappears and Qui-Gon doesn’t. The fact that he’s a walking, talking ghost is of course revealed in Empire Strikes Back- he’s a ghost. This way, the audience who is watching these in order is also wondering what Obi-Wan means by “I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

If I decided to go with this approach, then it would make sense for Qui-Gon to chime in throughout Ep. II and Ep. III at key moments, just as Obi-Wan did in SW. I know it isn’t a great solution, but what can you do under these circumstances? A total lack of an explanation of how Jedi walk and talk after death. My other thought was to actually make Qui-Gon disappear in Episode I. But then, I couldn’t use the burning scene, which is a must. I know this isn’t an Episode III edit thread, but this applies to Episode II and in fact the whole trilogy because I might be having to find things for Qui-Gon to say to Anakin/Obi-Wan in this one. I would love to hear comments and solutions to this problem. Because frankly, I’m confused even in the official scenario:

Qui-Gon doesn’t disappear.
The other Jedi that die don’t disappear.
Obi-Wan disappears.
Yoda disappears.
Vader doesn’t disappear.

If Qui-Gon figured out the key to all this, then why was his body left behind? Also, Vader doesn’t disappear, yet HE shows up as a ghost at the end. (BTW, Sebastian Shaw is Anakin in ROTJ). Why? And incidentally, why doesn’t Qui-Gon say anything after death in any of the 6 movies, to anyone? Or mentioned by Yoda? (beyond the fact that Qui-Gon wasn’t conceptualized back then.

Maybe someone could help me sort this mess out.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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A few people have brought up this "issue" to me, and I've never understood the problem. Obi Wan and Yoda clearly meditate and perform some kind of Force trick at their death. That's why their body disappears. But their clothes do not disappear, just their body. Darth Vader is not much more than a suit with a couple man parts inside. When he gets burned -- they don't reveal what happens to what's left of Annakin's body until, lo and behold, his ghost reappears. Qui-Gon and the other Jedi, of course, have no time to meditate and do any Force tricks before they're struck down -- hence no "ghosts." Any contact with Qui-Gon is different, occuring from across the threshold of death in a unique way.

Why is this simple interpretation of what's already there incorrect?

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Trooperman,

Reading your post again, I understand a little more of your concern. You think there's inconsistency between Qui-Gon's role as a dead jedi in the PT and Obi-Wan's role as a dead jedi in the OT.

As I say, I don't see any inconsistency in the OT -- they don't explain it, but it's clear that Obi-Wan and Yoda know a "trick". Episode III suggests Qui Gon learns this trick on the other side and communicates it somehow to Yoda. This seems consistent. He did not perform the "trick" when he died, so his ability to reach Yoda is a surprise and it's played as such.

If you add Qui-Gon throughout Ep I, II, and III as a voice offering advice and such, you'll be creating more questions than you answer for me.

Before you go any farther, I would ask a few questions: What advice from Qui Gon would make Ep II better? Would he help Obi-Wan's hunt for clones? Would he help Annakin's search for his mother, or his effort to save Obi Wan? He'd probably say "Don't kiss that girl!" "Don't kill those Sandpeople!"

In the OT, Qui Gon has even less of a relevent role to play. To whom would he offer advice? What possible use could it be? Remember he's been dead at that time for about 50 years.

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
And at this point, I would like to have a discussion about the lack of the Yoda/Qui-Gon scene on the DVD for inclusion in Episode III. This irks me because now, it looks as though there will be no explanation of how to become a force ghost. Maybe a simpler solution is called for…

Maybe, all Jedi can talk to other force-trained people after their deaths. But perhaps Obi-Wan is the first one to figure out how to actually come back as a ghost, and that’s why he disappears and Qui-Gon doesn’t. The fact that he’s a walking, talking ghost is of course revealed in Empire Strikes Back- he’s a ghost. This way, the audience who is watching these in order is also wondering what Obi-Wan means by “I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

If I decided to go with this approach, then it would make sense for Qui-Gon to chime in throughout Ep. II and Ep. III at key moments, just as Obi-Wan did in SW. I know it isn’t a great solution, but what can you do under these circumstances? A total lack of an explanation of how Jedi walk and talk after death. My other thought was to actually make Qui-Gon disappear in Episode I. But then, I couldn’t use the burning scene, which is a must. I know this isn’t an Episode III edit thread, but this applies to Episode II and in fact the whole trilogy because I might be having to find things for Qui-Gon to say to Anakin/Obi-Wan in this one. I would love to hear comments and solutions to this problem. Because frankly, I’m confused even in the official scenario:

Qui-Gon doesn’t disappear.
The other Jedi that die don’t disappear.
Obi-Wan disappears.
Yoda disappears.
Vader doesn’t disappear.

If Qui-Gon figured out the key to all this, then why was his body left behind? Also, Vader doesn’t disappear, yet HE shows up as a ghost at the end. (BTW, Sebastian Shaw is Anakin in ROTJ). Why? And incidentally, why doesn’t Qui-Gon say anything after death in any of the 6 movies, to anyone? Or mentioned by Yoda? (beyond the fact that Qui-Gon wasn’t conceptualized back then.

Maybe someone could help me sort this mess out.

This should make for good discussion; since learning about the DVD situation, I've put a lot of thought into it. Qui-Gon is my favorite (or one of my favorite) characters in Star Wars, and Liam Neeson is my favorite actor. That said, I am a bit biased. As for the official situation, I am very dissapointed that Liam Neeson refused to complete his scene in RotS. Even more so that this apparent animosity between Neeson and Lucas was swept under the rug so to speak, as for AotC it was said nothing new was needed from Neeson, but RotS would be more complicated. Then we get both of them dropping hints that Qui-Gon would be back, offical reports that he'd be in the movie, and an actual scene. But it seems Neeson was never going to return after having a bad experience with TPM. Now you can't really blame him for not liking Episode 1, but being a professional I'd hoped he would at least come back for his five minute scene in Episode 3.

All that "real world" stuff aside, I still think Qui-Gon can become an essential part of the saga, thus helping tie the prequels together into a true trilogy. Being such a favorite of mine, I was very happy with to hear he would be the key to the unanswered question of Force Spirits. The hint in AotC could have been handled better (NO!), but RotS looked like it would be a great scene. But alas, it was not to be, and all we get is a name drop explanation to Obi-Wan. The way I see it there are 2 (well 3) ways to address the problem:

1) Leave Qui-Gon's role in the saga as is. He dies in TPM, but retains a mystical connection to Yoda from the netherworld, and teaches him and Obi-Wan the secret of immortality.

2) Expand Qui-Gon's role in the saga. I have many an idea on how to do this, very much along the lines of what you were suggesting TM. This can get very extensive, or only a few extra bits here and there. Restoring the official RotS scene is a must any way you cut it though. More on this later.

3) Reduce Qui-Gon's role in the saga. As much as I may disagree with this option, it frustrates me how much it make sense. It hadn't occured to me either until MagnoliaFan was laying out his ways to deal with the Qui-Gon situation, and one of them was to just totally cut him from 2 and 3. Edit out his 3 words in AotC, and cut the last scene before Yoda stops Obi-Wan to talk to him about it. Problem "solved"? Maybe. Everything is left a mystery, and we never heard from or about Qui-Gon after his death.

In your break-down of the offical scenario, there is no doubt Lucas left himself some plotholes. What else is new? I've read that in early screening of TPM, Qui-Gon's body did indeed dissapear in the fire. This would be something to consider, but then what about everyone watching? Surely now that it's been established Jedi DON'T dissapear, there would be some sort of reaction if Jinn did. Anakin SHOULD have dissapeared, it even says he did in the Star Wars Databank, but Lucas' offical explanation (at least in The Annotated Screenplays) is that Obi-Wan and Yoda caught him on the other side. Of course he also said the "real" reason was that we wanted all the heroes of the PT to be together again, which is why I'm all for adding Qui-Gon (and maybe even Padme) to RotJ. But that discussion is for another time. But Anakin dissapearing is definitely something I would change; he's the Chosen One, that's explanation enough.

And while I do indeed support expanding Qui-Gon's role, it would be in a different way that Obi-Wan's life after death, as MTHaslett already pointed out. The problem with what I think you were getting at, TM, was that there can be no conversaions between Qui-Gon and the characters. This puts him in a very similar position as Obi-Wan in ANH after his death. He communicates with Luke in extreme moments, but they aren't chatting it up and we don't have Luke questioning how he's talking to him. In fact, Luke seems to not believe it himself at first. Here are some places I think dialogue from Qui-Gon would be approriate and meaningful:
-At some point during the space battle, when Anakin fires the torpedoes into the reactor for example, have Qui-Gon in his head: "Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." Qui-Gon is straddling life and death here, so this could be interpreted as either a rememberance (he told Anakin this before the pod race), Force user-to-Force user communication (Luke and Vader at the end of ESB), or advice from the netherworld (Obi-Wan in ANH).
-When Obi-Wan is hanging in the pit, have Qui-Gon is his head: "Always be mindful of your surroundings." Then he remembers Jinn's lightsaber is still there and leaps up to kill Maul. That could be interpreted as the latter two options from above.
-I thought about having Qui-Gon die after "Promise me you will train the boy," (assumming you would keep that line), then have "He will bring balance. Train him," echo in the long shot, in Obi-Wan's head I assume. But that might be a little weird.
-I mentioned this before, but perhaps have some of Qui-Gon's tone poem in Anakin's head at the funeral. "It will be a hard life. One without reward, without remorse, without regret." This would tie-in with the dream in your Episode 2, but again it might be a bit out of place.
-Qui-Gon dissapearing in the fire? Again, logically there would be some kind of reaction/response, so I'd say leave this as-is.
-Qui-Gon starts off the dream in SotDS.
-You know thinking about it, maybe we could weave a sub-plot here of Qui-Gon being responsible for Anakin's nightmares, trying to warn him about the future. He always starts off Anakin's dreams, and in RotS they could be continual visions with not only Padme, but maybe a glimpse of Vader and his future evil? Just a thought; not sure if/how that would work.
-Some kind of dialogue alteration after the Tusken massacare. Replacing the "NO!" first and foremost. Getting two different "Anakin"s would be nice too, making it seem less like a cut and paste job. Any additional stuff you can think of.
-So Qui-Gon in Anakin's Episode 3 visions is a possibility.
-A prefect line that could go several places (from Batman Begins): "Your anger gives you great power but [if you let it] it will destroy you." The place I have in mind of it is when Anakin looks into the suns on Mustafar, before he sheds a tear.
-Reconstructing the Yoda scene in some way. What I think everyone is forgetting is that they still need the Yoda part, which will never be released. And since it all has to be pieced together from different sources anyway, alter and expand it to not only explain the secret of immortality, but Qui-Gon expresses some responsibility for what happened in regards to Anakin.
-After Obi-Wan says "Qui-Gon!", maybe a line or two from Jinn would be appropriate. No "Teach you how to commune with him, I will," rather something from Qui-Gon along the lines of, "Yes Obi-Wan. I will guide you..."
-Considering this last scene, Obi-Wan should not hear from Qui-Gon after he has officially died. This leaves my first two suggestions possible, and reserves surprise for Obi-Wan in RotS. That works very well considering there's not many quiet moments for him to hear Qui-Gon in the first place.

Wow, that was a lot. A whole lot. But as you can see, I've put a lot of thought into this and I'm glad you brought it up, giving me an outlet to lay it all out. I await your input.
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Originally posted by: MTHaslett
A few people have brought up this "issue" to me, and I've never understood the problem. Obi Wan and Yoda clearly meditate and perform some kind of Force trick at their death. That's why their body disappears. But their clothes do not disappear, just their body. Darth Vader is not much more than a suit with a couple man parts inside. When he gets burned -- they don't reveal what happens to what's left of Annakin's body until, lo and behold, his ghost reappears. Qui-Gon and the other Jedi, of course, have no time to meditate and do any Force tricks before they're struck down -- hence no "ghosts." Any contact with Qui-Gon is different, occuring from across the threshold of death in a unique way.

Why is this simple interpretation of what's already there incorrect?


this is pretty much how ive always viewed it. I never thought it (the whole ghost/dissapearing thing) a problem until reading people complain about it on this board.

that said, i really like some of Commander Courage's suggestions about having Qui-Gon talk to Anakin\Obi-Wan. Especially the ones for TPM, because like he said, Qui-Gon is not dead yet at that point, so its more of a force connection and Obi-Wan wouldnt really question it, and it can make Anakin look less like he just accidently destroyed the control ship. And all the suggestions for what he says are actually already said in the movie, so its not hard to get the dialogue plus like the Commander said, it could be talking from beyond, telepathic communication between force sensative people, or simply the person being talked to recalling words of wisdom/teachings from Qui-Gon.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I don't really understand how to fix the whole ghostification ability myself. That's just something not even Lucas could wrap his mind around it seems.

One thing I was thinking about one day though was to possibly have Annie see quigon's ghost while he's dying on mustafar. It'll of course parallel luke in a similar situation, seeing Obi-wan's ghost in the clouds on Hoth, more of those repeated events that lucas says he's aiming for I guess. he'll say "Your midichlorians are evil now." or something like that.

Just putting it out there...
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Twister- that's a good idea (cutting away to Anakin during the dream) but I don't think it fits with the style of the dream I've established. The mechanics of the dream are pretty much finalized at this point. About avoiding deja-vu: I'm pretty sure that throughout the course of this dream, there is not one shot identical to any other shot in the movie (or any of the movies, for that matter). I've cropped from full-screen, flipped shots, and messed with the color so much that this will probably be a non-issue. One change I've made since the last post was that I've flopped both of the shots of Anakin in bed, because I like it better and also because now, his face and his mother's are not quite on top of each other anymore. I couldn't fip the shot of Shmi anyway because there's the continuity problem with her large scar.

Thanks and, I actually didn't think of doing that kind of a cut until I saw your screenshots. I just thought of another way a hard cut could work. Mabye he starts to say "Mom, no, no" in his dream. Then cut to the start of the zoom and, he continues his lines. Again it's just another suggestion that may not work with the style of dream you've made. I'm very glad to hear that deja vu won't take place though.

http://twister111.tumblr.com
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I love this. This is why I’m on a public forum in the first place.

Commander Courage- That question was for you- I knew you in particular would have a lot to say about this I’ve been reading the AdigitalMan thread, Episode III fan edit thread, and others, and I saw some of your ideas. This is another one of those things that I didn’t want to have to deal with (like the Padme Queen/Senator issue), and I definitely needed advice on this. Not only have you provided this, but you have provided some major inspiration for Episode III. More to follow- I will go through your excellent suggestions one by one:

I am going with your option 2.

“Qui-Gon dissapearing in the fire? Again, logically there would be some kind of reaction/response, so I'd say leave this as-is.”
“in early screening of TPM, Qui-Gon's body did indeed dissapear in the fire. This would be something to consider, but then what about everyone watching? Surely now that it's been established Jedi DON'T dissapear, there would be some sort of reaction if Jinn did.”

This is a good idea, though- Qui-Gon could disappear in the fire like Anakin was supposed to in ROTJ. This didn’t occur to me. About the reaction? I could probably find a way around this, like…camera pans over to Palpatine, who is staring ahead at something (longer than he was in the original). The scene ends with a shot of the fire, only…Qui-Gon has completely disappeared. CUT to celebration.

This does many things. We don’t have to deal with the reaction of the crowd, because the scene ends with the disappearance. We know that Palpatine saw what had happened and is disturbed by it (as well as the loss of his apprentice). And best of all, we know Qui-Gon actually disappears in the fire and becomes one with the force. I just don’t like the idea that Qui-Gon died, and somehow after he was dead he managed to find out how to come back as a ghost in his original form. I like the idea that during his life, he worked towards discovering this secret so that when he died, he was able to fade away. It was a result of his brilliance and hard work in life.

“Anakin SHOULD have dissapeared”

Yes, but if I’m not mistaken, I believe his physical face was visible during the burning scene. I would have to check on that.

“The problem with what I think you were getting at, TM, was that there can be no conversaions between Qui-Gon and the characters.”

Right. It can’t be like Empire; it has to be like SW when Obi-Wan spoke up at emotional high points.

“At some point during the space battle, when Anakin fires the torpedoes into the reactor for example, have Qui-Gon in his head: "Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." Qui-Gon is straddling life and death here, so this could be interpreted as either a rememberance (he told Anakin this before the pod race), Force user-to-Force user communication (Luke and Vader at the end of ESB), or advice from the netherworld (Obi-Wan in ANH).”

Yes- I LOVE this idea. Anakin goes from not having a clue what he’s doing the whole time to not having a clue until he hears Qui-Gon. Then, he has control. Great parallel to SW, also.

“When Obi-Wan is hanging in the pit, have Qui-Gon is his head: "Always be mindful of your surroundings." Then he remembers Jinn's lightsaber is still there and leaps up to kill Maul. That could be interpreted as the latter two options from above.”

Good idea to have some Qui-Gon dialogue there- however, when I get to Ep. I, I’ll probably think about using some other dialogue there that works better dramatically. You never know…

“I thought about having Qui-Gon die after "Promise me you will train the boy," (assumming you would keep that line), then have "He will bring balance. Train him," echo in the long shot, in Obi-Wan's head I assume. But that might be a little weird.”

That would probably come off as weird style-wise. However, I like the idea of him dying after saying “Promise me you will train the boy.” I could possibly manipulate dialogue to make him say, “The boy will bring balance. Promise me you will train him.” Anyway, plenty of time to think about that.

“I mentioned this before, but perhaps have some of Qui-Gon's tone poem in Anakin's head at the funeral. "It will be a hard life. One without reward, without remorse, without regret." This would tie-in with the dream in your Episode 2, but again it might be a bit out of place.”

Maybe, but less so than the previous example. This could work, but I’d have to test it multiple ways.

“You know thinking about it, maybe we could weave a sub-plot here of Qui-Gon being responsible for Anakin's nightmares, trying to warn him about the future. He always starts off Anakin's dreams, and in RotS they could be continual visions with not only Padme, but maybe a glimpse of Vader and his future evil? Just a thought; not sure if/how that would work.”

Ha ha- I know how it would work. After I read that, I realized how this would work. And it’s going to be so spectacularly creepy that I don’t even want to give it away yet. I will say that this will work VERY well and will make the story that much richer. Also, think “Vertigo” again (although that probably won’t help.) Anyway, thank you for some MAJOR inspiration.

“Some kind of dialogue alteration after the Tusken massacare. Replacing the "NO!" first and foremost. Getting two different "Anakin"s would be nice too, making it seem less like a cut and paste job. Any additional stuff you can think of.’

Yeah, I’m not sure about that yet, but something is guaranteed to be different about this.

“A prefect line that could go several places (from Batman Begins): "Your anger gives you great power but [if you let it] it will destroy you." The place I have in mind of it is when Anakin looks into the suns on Mustafar, before he sheds a tear.”

Very good idea. I can definitely use that line at some point. Also, thinking ahead to that scene, as much as everyone praises the music for that scene as being the highest emotional point for them, etc. etc- I really don’t like it, believe it or not. It was interesting the first time because it was a novel and completely different approach, but I would like to rescore this with something more sad/beautiful in romantic style. This will likely be an unpopular change- oh, well.

“Reconstructing the Yoda scene in some way. What I think everyone is forgetting is that they still need the Yoda part, which will never be released. And since it all has to be pieced together from different sources anyway, alter and expand it to not only explain the secret of immortality, but Qui-Gon expresses some responsibility for what happened in regards to Anakin.”

I’m probably not going to be able to do this myself. If MagnoliaFan or AdigitalMan want to take a stab at it, then perhaps I can use the scene if it works out in their versions. But I don’t know how to go about replacing both Yoda and Qui-gon dialogue.

“After Obi-Wan says "Qui-Gon!", maybe a line or two from Jinn would be appropriate. No "Teach you how to commune with him, I will," rather something from Qui-Gon along the lines of, "Yes Obi-Wan. I will guide you..."

This is more likely what I’ll do with this. Maybe I could even put some kind of non-talking on-screen Qui-Gon ghost image by Yoda. I do agree that actually seeing Qui-Gon after he dies in Ep. I would really drive the point home, and things would make much more sense.

“Considering this last scene, Obi-Wan should not hear from Qui-Gon after he has officially died. This leaves my first two suggestions possible, and reserves surprise for Obi-Wan in RotS. That works very well considering there's not many quiet moments for him to hear Qui-Gon in the first place.”

Sounds good to me- I didn’t have plans for his talking to Obi-Wan to begin with

Thanks for those great suggestions!



“One thing I was thinking about one day though was to possibly have Annie see quigon's ghost while he's dying on mustafar. It'll of course parallel luke in a similar situation, seeing Obi-wan's ghost in the clouds on Hoth, more of those repeated events that lucas says he's aiming for I guess. he'll say "Your midichlorians are evil now." or something like that.”

Hi there! If I were to put an image of Qui-Gon in the Mustafar scene, he would not talk. He would shimmer in the background maybe, but he would not talk to Anakin. More likely than actually putting his ghost there would be to have Anakin cry out for Qui-Gon’s help as he burns. Qui-Gon doesn’t answer as Anakin screams in pain and calls for Qui-Gon. I can do this due to the dubbing. This would bring up a bunch of interesting Biblical parallels that I don’t want to discuss now Good idea, though. Oh, and by the way- I HATE midichlorians with a passion and they will not be included in my saga.

MtHaslett- I Understand where you’re coming from, too. It’s not that the simple interpration is incorrect, it’s just that it’s a stretch and it doesn’t seem to be enough. What has actually gone on with the force ghosts is not explained well at all through the six movies, and elaborating on it serves many purposes. It makes for an overall richer story and also works very well dramatically (Qui-Gon communicating with Anakin and Obi-Wan in Ep. I, Qui-Gon somehow trying to interfere with Palpatine’s dreams and adding his own messages to them.

“What advice from Qui Gon would make Ep II better?”
“If you add Qui-Gon throughout Ep I, II, and III as a voice offering advice and such, you'll be creating more questions than you answer for me.”

Right- but the only time Qui-Gon shows up in Episode II is 1. At the beginning of the dream, and 2. After the Tusken slaughter. In Episode I, he is not dead until the end. Therefore, anything that he says could be interpreted as memories or as direct communication using the force. And in III, his words echo through Anakin’s head, much like Palpatine’s did at the beginning. And then of course we have the ending. So this isn’t creating any questions for me- throughout the PT, Qui-Gon voice keeps coming back. He isn’t watching everything and commenting on everything, saying “Don’t kiss that girl!” “Palpatine is a Sith lord!” etc. You remember that in the original trilogy, Obi-Wan was allowed to do some things and not others (like giving Luke advice when he fought Vader and the Emperor). Even Yoda was restricted in this way.

Anyway…

STILL working on the balcony scene, playing with the footage and slowing down/speeding up things to get good lip synch with Anakin (because he’s saying completely different things).

I had to make “I love you.” synch with “I don’t like sand.”

I have to make “I’ve loved you ever since I first saw you ten years ago.” fit with “It’s rough, and course, and irritating. Not like here…”etc. Because there are certain things you can’t do, and one of them is cutting away from a well-framed shot in a slower scene after 3 or 4 seconds. Anyway…it’s coming.

Thank you all for your patience with me- thanks Darth Simon for contributing as well. Nobody (well, almost nobody) does not contribute in some way when they post here. Please continue!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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TM:
While I can't say I follow the reasoning that because the Force ghosts aren't spelled out that the movies are less rich or that explaining where they come from (or, in the case of having Qui Gon disappear in the fire) making them common place does anything to enrich things -- I can't say the changes you suggest really bother me. I don't see leaving things as they are as any sort of stretch. These movies have a religion -- THE FORCE. Many movies have regligion in them, and the good ones don't spend a lot of time explaining away the mysteries that make their particular religion work. It would be one thing if we didn't understand how Luke could possibly fire a torpedo into the ventilation shaft, but if we need to explain how Obi Wan disappeared, we might as well have an explanation for how Luke had a sword fight with Darth Vader on Degobah. Just my opinion.

Trooperman (quote):"STILL working on the balcony scene, playing with the footage and slowing down/speeding up things to get good lip synch with Anakin (because he’s saying completely different things).

I had to make “I love you.” synch with “I don’t like sand.”


Mthaslett: Yikes-- Did you give up on our solution to this problem? Can you say a bit about why? I understood you were going to use this particular dialogue as overlapping voice over from the following scene -- thus solving more problems than just synch.

If you put that dialogue here -- if Anakin tells Padme he loves her on the balcony -- then what does she say back? Nothing? Why does she go and put on that hot outfit if he already told her he loves her? Is she trying to confuse him? Why does she wait until then (at least an hour later) before telling him she can't be part of this? What do they do for that hour or more? The flow of these scenes gets real awkward if he says he loves her on the balcony. I urge you to reconsider the previous solution and remind you that you said (in writing! ;-) ) the following:

Trooperman (quote): "MTHaslett- I love your solution and I’ll use it. I agreed with everything you just said. Thanks for clarifying and including that portion of revised script; I’d have had trouble following it otherwise. I totally agree that when edited in this fashion, one scene leads directly to the other. You made my job easy for this scene in the commentary; I'll just flip to this forum page and read your notes into the microphone!

Quote:
It's a technique of letting the dialogue from the next scene play over the tail of the preceding scene -- to bring out the subtext.


And I love it."

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Oh….OK. What happened was that I thought I understood what you were saying but actually didn’t. I thought you were proposing that the scene continue as planned, until…

Anakin: I was afraid to tell you before…

FIRESIDE:

Anakin: but it’s true.

Scene continues because the dialogue continued from one scene to the next, for some reason. Granted, that didn’t make a whole lot of sense at the time- but it seemed to correct the problem of it feeling as though you missed something. But that actually doesn’t help it a whole lot more than a wipe.

NOW I see that what you’re suggesting is a balcony scene where they don’t talk to each other at all in the scene, but we think they do at the beginning because we hear voices (from the next scene). Then, the viewer becomes confused and realizes something’s up when we move to close-ups and the lips aren’t moving. Things become clear when we cut to the fireside scene.

And so the only reason that we’re using the balcony scene at all and not just having the fireside play out is for the romantic imagery and tension of the moonlit scene (and also the dialogue trick for the audience, and also the lip synch problem if I did the whole fireside).

This is making a lot more sense now. Now, the only problem becomes the fact that we can’t use any balcony footage with any lips moving whatsoever. Another thing we might have to do is to darken the scene so that it isn’t as obvious that the lips aren’t moving? I was wondering what your complete thoughts on this were.

Just because I love the idea of the moonlit sequence so much, I’m probably going to include the whole thing in its entirety as originally conceived, as a deleted scene. But now that I understand what you’re saying, the moonlit scene will not have any real dialogue. However, I have a question:

What do you think about doing the moonlit scene with the actual dialogue of Padme babbling, and then go to the Anakin overlapping speech. This would be because HER dialogue is more suited to the actual scene. I could perhaps somehow distinguish what she is saying with what Anakin is saying, in terms of reality or memory. Perhaps I could add a slight echo to the Anakin dialogue in the moonlit scene? Your feedback, please…

I might talk about the whole “Force” thing later, but I guess the point is that if you were worried that I’m going to try to define the Force to death in the movies, it won’t happen that way. Not only that, but midichlorians are removed- if anything, the Force will be more magical.

“I can't say the changes you suggest really bother me.”

Right- especially because none of them apply to Episode II- just the nightmare and the Tusken incident. But I rather like the telepathic communication/memories idea with Anakin and Obi-Wan in Episode I. Anyway, I’ll discuss later….

Thanks!

And I just realized that my screen name should actually be "A Trooper Man". That way, people could abbreviate it as "ATM".

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Hi there! If I were to put an image of Qui-Gon in the Mustafar scene, he would not talk. He would shimmer in the background maybe, but he would not talk to Anakin. More likely than actually putting his ghost there would be to have Anakin cry out for Qui-Gon’s help as he burns. Qui-Gon doesn’t answer as Anakin screams in pain and calls for Qui-Gon. I can do this due to the dubbing. This would bring up a bunch of interesting Biblical parallels that I don’t want to discuss now Good idea, though. Oh, and by the way- I HATE midichlorians with a passion and they will not be included in my saga.


Thanks for the reply, TM . That's an interesting idea you have too; perhaps it could not only parallel the scene in ESB, but also what takes place moments before in which Obi-wan turns his back on his fallen apprentice. I'm not sure about which biblical parallels you might be referring to besides the beginning of Genesis: the whole "First Sin" thing with God turning his own back on his creation. (Haven't gone through a bible since I was a lad) Well, if it's on the same track anyway, that's be cool, to have Quigon not respond similarly to how Obi-wan doesn't respond to Luke's crys for help after his duel in ESB. I love Parallels!!!

And I'm right there with you. Midichlorians can kiss my Wookie.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Trooperman --

I see how you were confused by my suggestion and I think there's a great solution if you can live with some of the actual dialogue from the balcony scene. I think it has some potential, but I better look more closely before I post specific suggestions.

Regarding the Force ideas -- I love that basically it's not an issue for Episode II and frankly I love the ideas as discussed for Episode I -- not because it addresses the Force ghost problem, but because it addresses the whole lack of an emotional climax for Anakin in that story. The final version of that movie should be that Anakin can feel Qui Gon's guidance through the Force and that when he FEELS Qui Gon DIE, he lets loose with those torpedos. He cuts loose with his first bit of anger and murder because of Qui Gon's death. I don't know how to do it yet, but the changes you suggest get us a little further down that road.

In brief, I'll go over the balcony scene for more notes, but I think the dialogue as written and filmed fits the scene okay. It's even better with this bit of "voice over" at the end. The way it works is as "comfortable conversation" between two people with a lot to hide -- then they look at each other and the conversation stops BUT we HEAR what they want to say -- dubbed in from the next scene in which they ACTUALLY SAY IT. This bit of editing tells the necessary lover beats. We all go through it-- hanging out with a girl you like, talking to her about stuff, listening to her and hoping she likes you, gathering your nerve as you both say dumb stuff and finally taking the leap to say "I like you, a LOT." This little editing trick condenses all that without skipping it or screwing it up the way it was in the original cut. Your work on the balcony scene makes it a natural fit to cut into the fireside chat -- that makes Lucas' point better than he was able to.

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We seem to be on the same wavelength on this, TM. Good deal.

I really don't know about Qui-Gon disspearing in the fire. My reasoning is the same as yours, "I just don’t like the idea that Qui-Gon died, and somehow after he was dead he managed to find out how to come back as a ghost in his original form. I like the idea that during his life, he worked towards discovering this secret so that when he died, he was able to fade away." But something as significant as that would surely be worth a mention, which of course would be absent. All that aside, if you're going to go for it, showing Qui-Gon dissapear on-screen is the way to do it. If not, it's TOO ambiguous. So in the final shot of Qui-Gon burning, he would fade away, then Yoda and Mace discuss the Sith, omninous shot of Palpatine, cut to end celebration. Of course, we have plenty of time to work this out. Btw, all you can see in RotJ is Vader's burning armor, no physical Anakin.

Ha ha- I know how it would work. After I read that, I realized how this would work. And it’s going to be so spectacularly creepy that I don’t even want to give it away yet. I will say that this will work VERY well and will make the story that much richer. Also, think “Vertigo” again (although that probably won’t help.) Anyway, thank you for some MAJOR inspiration.
Your welcome. I look forward to seeing where you go with this.

Also, thinking ahead to that scene, as much as everyone praises the music for that scene as being the highest emotional point for them, etc. etc- I really don’t like it, believe it or not. It was interesting the first time because it was a novel and completely different approach, but I would like to rescore this with something more sad/beautiful in romantic style. This will likely be an unpopular change- oh, well.
On the soundtrack it is a very powerful piece, but I thought in the context of the film the music was a bit downplayed and not loud enough. I do think it would be excellent accompanying Obi-Wan's death in ANH...

If MagnoliaFan or AdigitalMan want to take a stab at it, then perhaps I can use the scene if it works out in their versions. But I don’t know how to go about replacing both Yoda and Qui-gon dialogue.
Right, no one seems to realize this when discussing editing together the scene themselves. I have a feeling MagnoliaFan will be able to put something together.

Maybe I could even put some kind of non-talking on-screen Qui-Gon ghost image by Yoda.

Well if we're keeping Qui-Gon's role the same as Obi-Wan's in ANH, he should not be able to manifest himself physically. Which leads me too...

If I were to put an image of Qui-Gon in the Mustafar scene, he would not talk. He would shimmer in the background maybe, but he would not talk to Anakin. More likely than actually putting his ghost there would be to have Anakin cry out for Qui-Gon’s help as he burns. Qui-Gon doesn’t answer as Anakin screams in pain and calls for Qui-Gon. I can do this due to the dubbing.

I DO like this parallel to Luke in ESB. However, there's not really an existing shot to do this, and again, Qui-Gon shouldn't be able to be seen as a spirit. Anakin calling for Qui-Gon would be heartwrenchingly tragic, but if he does not see him it would make little sense. Of course if he has continued to communicate with him through dreams and whatnot, it might make perfect sense...

...because it addresses the whole lack of an emotional climax for Anakin in that story. The final version of that movie should be that Anakin can feel Qui Gon's guidance through the Force and that when he FEELS Qui Gon DIE, he lets loose with those torpedos. He cuts loose with his first bit of anger and murder because of Qui Gon's death. I don't know how to do it yet, but the changes you suggest get us a little further down that road.

That has definite possibilities as well. And you're right about Anakin's climax, it's non-existent. He's just a kid over his head who gets lucky. It should be very much like Luke's space battle and trench run in ANH, and I'm sure we can think of an effective and feasible way to make it so.
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Hello again....



Thanks for the reply, TM . That's an interesting idea you have too; perhaps it could not only parallel the scene in ESB, but also what takes place moments before in which Obi-wan turns his back on his fallen apprentice. I'm not sure about which biblical parallels you might be referring to besides the beginning of Genesis: the whole "First Sin" thing with God turning his own back on his creation. (Haven't gone through a bible since I was a lad) Well, if it's on the same track anyway, that's be cool, to have Quigon not respond similarly to how Obi-wan doesn't respond to Luke's crys for help after his duel in ESB. I love Parallels!!!


Yes, and I'm kind of fascinated by the idea that Anakin thought that the dark path was only a temporary thing- then, when he cries for help, nobody answers. It's too late at that point, and he is doomed. The Emperor comes to rescue him and saves him using the Dark Side, and Anakin joins him permanently because everyone else has turned their backs on him. As for the Biblical parallels...well, one has to do with the whole Mustafar/Hell comparison.

Don't want to get off-topic, but I wanted to get a general idea of what I'm going for in the PT in case it would affect my current view of Episode II. And it doesn't seem to at this point.


Regarding the Force ideas -- I love that basically it's not an issue for Episode II and frankly I love the ideas as discussed for Episode I -- not because it addresses the Force ghost problem, but because it addresses the whole lack of an emotional climax for Anakin in that story. The final version of that movie should be that Anakin can feel Qui Gon's guidance through the Force and that when he FEELS Qui Gon DIE, he lets loose with those torpedos. He cuts loose with his first bit of anger and murder because of Qui Gon's death. I don't know how to do it yet, but the changes you suggest get us a little further down that road.

GREAT idea- it has to be this way. Episode I will be great fun to work on, especially if we actually have *gasp* a CLIMAX! Who would've thought?


In brief, I'll go over the balcony scene for more notes, but I think the dialogue as written and filmed fits the scene okay. It's even better with this bit of "voice over" at the end. The way it works is as "comfortable conversation" between two people with a lot to hide -- then they look at each other and the conversation stops BUT we HEAR what they want to say -- dubbed in from the next scene in which they ACTUALLY SAY IT. This bit of editing tells the necessary lover beats. We all go through it-- hanging out with a girl you like, talking to her about stuff, listening to her and hoping she likes you, gathering your nerve as you both say dumb stuff and finally taking the leap to say "I like you, a LOT." This little editing trick condenses all that without skipping it or screwing it up the way it was in the original cut. Your work on the balcony scene makes it a natural fit to cut into the fireside chat -- that makes Lucas' point better than he was able to.

What you're saying makes perfect sense- however, if you're lobbying for the "I don't like sand" dialogue, I just can't do it. Maybe just a personal thing for me; I just want to crawl under my chair everytime I hear those lines. What I was wondering was if I could find an alternative that sounded less foolish and could synch with the lips, so that I could use the shot containing both of their faces before doing close-ups (editing thing). I'd like to hear your suggestions on this.


I really don't know about Qui-Gon disspearing in the fire. My reasoning is the same as yours, "I just don’t like the idea that Qui-Gon died, and somehow after he was dead he managed to find out how to come back as a ghost in his original form. I like the idea that during his life, he worked towards discovering this secret so that when he died, he was able to fade away." But something as significant as that would surely be worth a mention, which of course would be absent. All that aside, if you're going to go for it, showing Qui-Gon dissapear on-screen is the way to do it. If not, it's TOO ambiguous. So in the final shot of Qui-Gon burning, he would fade away, then Yoda and Mace discuss the Sith, omninous shot of Palpatine, cut to end celebration. Of course, we have plenty of time to work this out. Btw, all you can see in RotJ is Vader's burning armor, no physical Anakin.


Yes- however, my way around this was that the disappearance ended the scene; otherwise, it would look funny if a Jedi disappeared for the first time in history and they kept talking as though nothing had happened. So my idea was to do "But which one? The master or the apprentice?" Pan over to Palpatine (looking ahead at something). Cut to Qui-Gon in fire- he disappears. Cut back to Palpatine, who understands what just happened. CUT to celebration.


On the soundtrack it is a very powerful piece, but I thought in the context of the film the music was a bit downplayed and not loud enough. I do think it would be excellent accompanying Obi-Wan's death in ANH...


I was not really planning on editing the OT, just to prove that the prequels could have been made to fit the OT without any tweaking of the originals. Are you thinking of possibilities for the Magnoliafan SW trilogy?

Anakin calling for Qui-Gon would be heartwrenchingly tragic, but if he does not see him it would make little sense. Of course if he has continued to communicate with him through dreams and whatnot, it might make perfect sense...

Exactly. Particularly if Anakin tends to hear him in his head in Episode III, even outside of dreams....(or "dreamses" from Backstroke of the West)

------------------

-As you know, I'm a little stuck on the balcony dialogue right now.

-Just a kind of vague question- any ideas on how to make Coruscant/the Coruscant streets a little darker, more like Blade Runner? (I don't know- compare the 2 aliens arguing about which brand is better to the billboard in BR of the woman taking the pills). Shots I could use from other movies? Because right now, we have a lot of stuff/costumes that looks like it's out of Harry Potter- just wondering if anyone had suggestions to make it more like a filthy, inner-city dump. Inside the bar, I've already done some things with color, added some old nightclub music, and occasionally cut away to other movies in an attempt to make it more gritty and interesting.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions. Thank you very much! I will try to respond quickly.

TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Trooperman:

Here is a revision of the scene that works for me and avoids the objectionable "I don't like sand" crap. This is from the script, not the movie, so there may be some discrepencies -- but if it's correct, would this work for you?

EXT. BALCONY -- NIGHT
ANAKIN and PADME stop at the balustrade. PADME looks out across the garden to the shimmering moonlit
lake and the mountains rising beyond. ANAKIN looks at her silently.

PADMÉ
When I was in Level Three, we used
to come here for school retreat.
See that island? We used to swim
there every day. I love the water.

ANAKIN
I do too. I guess it comes from
growing up on a desert planet.

PADME becomes aware that ANAKIN is looking at her.

PADMÉ
...We used to lie on the sand and
let the sun dry us... and try to
guess the names of the birds
singing.

He touches her arm. PADME has become receptive to the way he looks at her but is nervous.

PADMÉ
There was a very old man who lived
on the island. He used to make
glass out of sand - and vases and
necklaces out of the glass. They
were magical.

CUT ANAKIN DIALOGUE

PADMÉ
You could look into the glass and
see the water. The way it ripples
and moves. It looked so real...
but it wasn't.

ANAKIN
Sometimes, when you believe
something to be real, it becomes
real. Real enough, anyway...

They look into each other's eyes.

ANAKIN (V.O.)
I've loved you since... etc.
CUT TO:

INT. FIRESIDE -- NIGHT

Etc.





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Thanks for that, MTHaslett. As scripted, this scene is a lot better. Unfortunately, most of that dialogue didn't make it for the movie. If I had the following:

Padme: You could look into the glass and see the water. The way it ripples and moves. It looked so real...but it wasn't.

then I could make this work very well. But not only is it not in the movie, but I don't believe it's in the supplementals either. Back to the drawing board...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Curses!

The only copy of Episode II that I have is MagFan's edit. I've rented the release version and sent it back, so I don't have access to the release version except through on-line scripts which are, as you see, inaccurate.

What is there in the current scene? Or can you direct me to a continuity draft ?