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Episode 3 - Editing Back in Progress (* unfinished project *) — Page 12

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Seventies goodness. If I remember right the Lucasfilm logo flipped up to a nice beat in the 20th Century Fox overture, too.
"My teaching is like a raft used to cross a river. Only a fool would carry the raft around after he reached the other side!"
--Buddha
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does this mean you'll use the original recording of the Fox Fanfare used in Episode IV?!

Please don't... please use the one recorded for Empire Strikes Back by Williams and the LSO... it sounds much better...


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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Thanks for the input, SH and GM! I was hoping the 70's logo would meet with approval. I think I've found my source for that visual in the form of ALIEN, though the running time for it in this movie is about 3 seconds longer than in SW. Just a matter of fading in and out at the right times I would imagine.

Regarding the opening fanfare, though I agree with you, GM, that the ESB version sounds better, for the sake of story chronolgy I am leaning toward the 1954 Alfred Newman original as heard in SW. I know some people here on the boards have done some amazing GOUT anamorphic work, and if the ESB version of the fanfare has been used consistently across the Trilogy there, I could see a reason to use it, too. Doyou know if this has been done?
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Hah, I was just about to suggest Alien as a source for the opening Fanfare. I'd never even thought of switching that around, but I have to say I like the idea. Bravo. This raises a question of music quality however. One thing I've always noticed between the PT and the OT is the music. The PT has much higher quality recording, so the music has a much ricer tone and smoother bass. You can hear this the most when comparing the opening crawl theme. If your worried about continuity you may thusly want to consider changing the opening music to the original as well. Once the film has started then the action on the screen would distract from the difference in quality, so you could just fade into the original Episode III score and not notice the difference.
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If you listen to the GOUT, I think there's a tonal quality difference between the fanfare and the score anyway. So, I think it will hold with ANH. If not, I'll definitely see if I can use your idea. Thanks!
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Well, it's slow-going with life and other projects in the mix, but a friend and I sat down with an Episode 3 script and went to work; he's got a head for story details and is great at continuity!

We cut out a bunch of stuff (Grievous will be gone as Kerr had said he was doing with his edit) and added some scenes back in (making Padme a stronger character).

Seeing that the story would actually work without Grievous (it was like getting a look at what Lucas had written before the addition of Grievous the story flows so well!), I got excited to begin my final anamorphic widescreen edit, and wrote a new title crawl with my friend's input.

Gone is "War!" or anything remotely cheesy like that. I referenced all of the GOUT crawls for similar language and tone. Hopefully everyone will like it, but there is a lot of story we had to write just in the crawl to plug up plot holes like why the fighting doesn't cease after Dooku is dead. Well, here it is; fire away!

Star Wars
Episode III
The Republic Lost

Despite staggering losses
to the ranks of both army
and Jedi, the indecisive
balance of the Clone Wars
has recently tipped in the
Republic’s favor.

In desperation, Separatist
leader Count Dooku has
risked his fleet and his
own capture to abduct the
Supreme Chancellor from
the capital planet.

Escape would destroy the
Republic’s resolve; capture
will doom the tenuous
Separatist coalition. In
pursuit, Jedis Kenobi and
Skywalker race to restore
peace to the galaxy….
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The only tip I have is that I think it would be better to use their full names, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Other than that, nice. It really does feel more like an original trilogy crawl.
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BTW, I would suggest that in a few sequences, you dump the Williams score and replace it with some of Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music or othe Williams tunes (not Jaws).
Emo is the moral destrucion of modern society.
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SotD, why dump some of John Williams score? Which sequences did you have a problem with?
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Fuck your changes. Fuck this site.
RB
Film Reinvented
Come On!
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What the hell are you doing here, drama queen? I thought you had left after Adywan scolded you, shit-for-brains.
Emo is the moral destrucion of modern society.
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OLK, I'm glad it feels more like an OT crawl to you, too. Adding in their full names would be great, but I'm already at 19 lines which makes it just as long as ANH's crawl which is the longest of all the crawls aside from the one from the original '77 release. I may try to squeeze it in there, though, if it'll fit with the music and not scroll up too quickly.

SotD, thanks for the suggestion. Like OLK asked, what parts do you see as needing replacement? There are some tracks from the score to Gladiator that I've been toying with the idea of using.

RB, I'm guessing you're paraphrasing Luke from the Star Wars novel? To Obi-Wan: "Damn your force!" Thanks for keeping it topical!

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I really have problems with any use of tracked music, the approach on the Jedi Temple, the Mace vs. Palpatine duel and some sequences of the final duel that don't use Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes. I'm fine with the rest HOWEVER, the music should come only from GoodMusician's Episode III soundtrack.
Emo is the moral destrucion of modern society.
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SotD, I thought the approach on the Jedi Temple music was originally planned for the Arena in Episode II but not used in there (although I could just be wrong). So technically it is tracked, but its not used in other places so I don't see the problem. Do you think it doesn't work well there?

the Mace vs. Palpatine duel and some sequences of the final duel that don't use Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes


Again, I could just be wrong, but I didn't think music in the Mace/Palpatine duel was tracked. Which parts were tracked? And which parts of the final duel were tracked? And though I guess the music during Palpatine's "now you will experience the full power of the dark side" line was tracked from ESB, I thought it worked really well there. To me music tracked from the OT (in small doses) gives some feeling of continuity.

darkhelmet, (I know you already said you would try), but I think not having the full names is the only thing that makes it sound like a fan written crawl. I'm also not too into the new title, I kind of prefer Revenge of the Sith, I thought it worked well with Return of the Jedi. Other than that I really like it.
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Cool! Thanks, OLK. I'm not particularly attached to the title as is, but I don't really see what the revenge was for. It's never clear what the Sith are getting revenge for.

SotD, GM's Episode 3 soundtrack is definitely too good of a resource to pass up! I'll give it a listen. Overall, though, I wasn't really impressed (prepare for blaspemy!) with Williams' work for most of the prequel films, so I'm excited to possibly use other music that might fit. I'll need to decide on that later, though, since I've got my work cut out for just the editing right now. BTW, what's "tracked" music? Music that exists from other sources and not originally composed for the footage it is finally used for?
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Well, it's slow-going with life and other projects in the mix, but a friend and I sat down with an Episode 3 script and went to work; he's got a head for story details and is great at continuity!

We cut out a bunch of stuff (Grievous will be gone as Kerr had said he was doing with his edit) and added some scenes back in (making Padme a stronger character).

Seeing that the story would actually work without Grievous (it was like getting a look at what Lucas had written before the addition of Grievous the story flows so well!), I got excited to begin my final anamorphic widescreen edit, and wrote a new title crawl with my friend's input.

Gone is "War!" or anything remotely cheesy like that. I referenced all of the GOUT crawls for similar language and tone. Hopefully everyone will like it, but there is a lot of story we had to write just in the crawl to plug up plot holes like why the fighting doesn't cease after Dooku is dead. Well, here it is; fire away!

Star Wars
Episode III
The Republic Lost

Despite staggering losses
to the ranks of both army
and Jedi, the indecisive
balance of the Clone Wars
has recently tipped in the
Republic’s favor.

In desperation, Separatist
leader Count Dooku has
risked his fleet and his
own capture to abduct the
Supreme Chancellor from
the capital planet.

Escape would destroy the
Republic’s resolve; capture
will doom the tenuous
Separatist coalition. In
pursuit, Jedis Kenobi and
Skywalker race to restore
peace to the galaxy….


Firing away, sir!

Darkhelmet, I'm glad to see you're cutting Grievous, but I'm intrigued by how the Separtists would stay together after Dooku's demise. Plus, how would the Utupau battle go? Oh well, I guess I'll have to just wait and see!

I see where you're going with your new crawl and what you're trying to set up, but in some regards I think it goes against the tone that most of the other crawls have. I took the plot points from yours and SOME wording from the official crawl, to come up with the following. I humbly offer it for your consideration:

Despite staggering losses
on both sides, the balance
of the Clone Wars has
begun to tip in favor of
the Republic.

In a desperate move to
destroy the Republic’s
resolve, Count Dooku has
swept into the Republic
capital and kidnapped the
Supreme Chancellor.

As the Separatists attempt
to flee with their hostage,
Obi-Wan Kenobi and
Anakin Skywalker race
to rescue the Chancellor
and deliver a decisive
blow to the tenuous
Separatist collation....

But if you don't like this, at least please use "Jedi Kights" instead of "Jedis". They are never referred to as "Jedis" in the movies.

Just my two cents.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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I'm pretty sure that (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) the Sith want revenge for being cast out of the order or something like that. Ever see Star Trek: Insurrection? I always kinda thought of them like the Sona in that film (to some extent anyway). The Sith are also definitely looking for revenge because Darth Maul says it in Episode I, "at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." I feel that it works with Return of the Jedi because a Jedi will not seek revenge, but a Sith sure will. It goes back to when they made the title for Jedi, which I'm sure you know was originally Revenge of the Jedi. The title was changed for the reason that I stated earlier, and because Episode III is about a Sith, it just seems fitting. To me it seems that Anakin hopes to get revenge in some form as well, against the Jedi Order and his master for not trusting him or something. He feels that they are stunting his growth as a Jedi and not taking him seriously, like he said "it's just not fair!" He also thinks they're lying to him, "I know there are things about the force that they're not telling me." So I guess if you are as misguided as Anakin, you might want revenge.

Overall, though, I wasn't really impressed (prepare for blaspemy!) with Williams' work for most of the prequel films

BLASPHEMY! Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But you should really take into account that a fair amount of his work for Episodes I and II was edited and tracked beyond recognition. I hope you don't replace too much. You should listen to the stuff on GoodMusician's complete score that was not used in the film.

Also one last thing about the crawl, I don't like Jedis either, forgot to mention it. Again, other than that, great.
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EST and OLK: great feedback. Thanks! It seems clear that I will need to use either Obi-wan' and Anakin's full names and/or the title "Jedi Knights"; point definitely taken.

About the rest of the crawl: I'll be going back to the drawing board to try to fit the new one as closely within the official crawls' line-by-line constraints as I can.

Regarding how the Separatists would stay together after Dooku's death, a key victory such as that wouldn't mean that the war would end immediately; there would likely be pockets of resistance that would still need to be defeated. So, the fighting in the rest of the movie would essentially be clean-up operations to make the defeat absolute. That's been a difficult concept to fit into the crawl and still have it sound cool. Originally I had "Capture will begin the end of the conflict"; not very literary-sounding.

The music: I'll definitely be listening to GM's Episode 3 music before I decide on including non-JW tracks (but I really do like some of the moody pieces from GLADIATOR).

Regarding "revenge" and the episode title: though the concept of the Sith's revenge was set-up very blatantly in Episode I, it became a very weak plot point that never sufficiently (IMO) played out in any of the prequels. OLK, your points about the sources of the desire for revenge are very plausible, but they are never really driven home in the movies. The reason for revenge should have been apparent since, in a movie, strong plot points don't exist if they aren't shown on-screen (the old drama addage: "If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage.").

Some other titles for consideration: "The Republic Falls", "The Twin Fates", "The Dark Times", "The Republic Besieged". I just came up with "Besieged", and I like it a lot; topical and doesn't give too much away just like "A New Hope"! Any of these hit a good nerve, or do you guys have any titles to suggest?
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In terms of titles, not that I really don't like yours, I just don't like having 'the' at the beginning. Also, it is just my opinion, however I don't like Besieged. To me it just seems too fancy, and a little specific. Not to say that I dislike good word use, I just don't think its in keeping with the other titles. Not very serial. It needs to be an almost lame title, something kinda nerdy but in the end not really. I can't really explain what I mean better than that. I am also a bit curious as to why you really don't like Revenge of the Sith.

About the music thing. I too just love some of the music in gladiator. I guess all I'm saying is that I want Gladiator's music to remind me only of Gladiator. I'm mainly hoping that the stuff you want to use isn't the parts written by Hans Zimmer. I'm sort of against his stuff because, with the exception of Hannibal and Gladiator, I think its all a bit too similar. I really just don't want Star Wars to remind me of Zimmer's scores. He dosen't even write the best parts of his scores, for example he did not write Vide Cor Meum (the opera piece) in Hannibal, it was actually written by a fellow named Patrick Cassidy and only produced by Zimmer.

I look forward to the new crawl.
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Cool, OLK. I understand your reasoning on the score; I'll give more weight to William's score work as collected by GoodMusician as I consider the music for my edit; maybe I'll do an alternate music track to allow for both mixes.

Yeah, I don't really dig using "the" in "The Republic Lost", but I wanted to keep with the tradition of the OUT, and specifically "A New Hope". Jedi was the only one of the original 3 not to use an indefinite article like "a" and "the". I'm not into using ROTS as the title, because it's never made clear in the prequels what the revenge is all about, unlike the story in ROTJ which clearly reinforces the movie's title. I'm attempting to find a title that reflects the serial titles of the OUT in their ability to clearly reflect the main thrust of each movie and perhaps to have multiple meanings like ANH refers both to the stolen Death Star plans and to Luke as well.

I'll hopefully have a preliminary title crawl with 20th Century Fox Fanfare done and posted by the end of this weekend.
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I'll hopefully have a preliminary title crawl with 20th Century Fox Fanfare done and posted by the end of this weekend.

Neato!

Title suggestion: Rise of the Sith

Why I think its an alright title: I was originally going to suggest something with Jedi in the title like Fall of the Jedi, but then I realized I wanted something with a bit more of an active voice. Instead of the fall of something, I prefer the rise of something else. Return of the Jedi could have been Fall of the sith, but I don't think that's a very good title.
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Well, I've been banging my head against my desk stressing over the details of a decent approximation of an authentic SW crawl, and I've discovered that maybe I should have read the directions first. Oh, well.

Here's a peek at the opening of the crawl. Sorry that there's no video yet. Oh, and OLK, thanks for your suggested title crawl! Borrowing part of it helped me make the final version!

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3899/dummiedupcrawl092307pw0.jpg

Edit: Worked A LOT more on the crawl last night, and WHEW! The devil is in the details. I feel hopeful that I'll get an almost identical-looking crawl, but the finessing of the whole thing is painstaking.
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Okay, so I'm cautiously optimistic that I'm on a decent track to creating a good SW-style crawl.

It's still kinda hocus-pocus to me with the camera layer in After Effects, but I think I may have elbow-greased the scroll into the proper position.

Here are screen shots of the After Effects work, but don't freak out! I'm only using the red text to justify and modify my text to fit that of the real Episode 3 crawl.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8899/episodenumberreplica01nq5.png
Pretty decent match on the episode #! This might work yet.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8480/episodetitleoverlay01qu3.png
Pretty nice emulation of the text style.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2534/crawlbodyreplica01st8.png
Had to pack it in for the night, but this is off to a good start I hope. The real test is when the text moves, though!

More to come as it develops.
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I've always liked the name "The Dark Times". This should be a cool edit.
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Thanks, Sluggo! I'm hoping to do some unexpected stuff, so I hope it turns out cool.