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End of SE ROTJ... — Page 3

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Plus he appears right where Han rides in on Hoth and only just before he does. He could have shown up at any other time but wanted Luke looking there to see Han.

Hey look, a bear!

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Even if the "ghosts" were actually visible, Luke should still have sensed their presence, just as he would if he saw them in the flesh. Vader certainly had no trouble recognizing Obi Wan as an old man . . .
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Originally posted by: wmgan Even if the "ghosts" were actually visible, Luke should still have sensed their presence, just as he would if he saw them in the flesh. Vader certainly had no trouble recognizing Obi Wan as an old man . . .


Did Luke shower, shit and shave with Anakin for a decade? No; in fact Luke had NO CLUE what his father looked like until the big reveal at the end of Jedi.

In contrast Anakin did shower, shit and shave with Obi-Wan for many years. It seems reasonable that Anakin would recognize Obi-Wan. Oh yeah then there’s the fact that when Vader stuck down Obi-Wan he was an old man. Does, “Your skills are weak old man” sound familiar?


"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Ugh, all this analysis is drifting...
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There is no logical explanation for Hayden in Jedi- it is just a scheme for the "prequelization" of the OT. The whole force ghost theory is a nonsense theory to explain what was truly a marketing scheme for people to see Episode III. When we did not get the explantion for Hayden in Sith, this leads now wondering of they added stuff on the DVD, which they didn't. Now that Lucas has finished "justifying" the prequels, he is returning to justify the SE.
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The only change to the end of ROTJ that I don't mind is the brief shot of Luke hugging Wedge, but other than that, I HATE all the changes, and I refuse to watch the DVD. I detest the new CGI celebration scenes, the new song, the re-editing that takes out Luke's "wink" (or at least it seems like that's what they were trying to do) and the addition of Hayden.

BTW-why is Hayden young, when Ben is old? What, you mean they didn't have any un-used footage of Alec from "the bridge on the river Kwai" that they could use? [/sarcasm]

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Better-looking Jabba? The '97 Jabba looked remotely like a very sad, crying Jabba. The '04 Jabba looks more fierce and realistic, but he doesn't look anything like Jabba the Hutt! And my main bitching point is that that scene exists at all!

Yeah, the 2004 Jabba is GREEN!? Funny, I don't remember that Jabba was GREEN in ROTJ! LOL

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Originally posted by: Mielr
The only change to the end of ROTJ that I don't mind is the brief shot of Luke hugging Wedge, but other than that, I HATE all the changes, and I refuse to watch the DVD. I detest the new CGI celebration scenes, the new song, the re-editing that takes out Luke's "wink" (or at least it seems like that's what they were trying to do) and the addition of Hayden.


Whoah, hold on there, man. Go back! I'm not familiar with these Luke/Wedge and Luke/winking alterations. Please elaborate.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I dont mind the planets celebrating and the new music change instead of Yub Nub, its just Hayden(even though I dont mind him in the PT) instead of Sebastian Shaw that I just find unbearable to watch, I wanted to throw my TV out of the window the first time I saw him there, and have only seen once since and have no plans to again.
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I've never understood the planets celebrating. Sure, probably some planets celebrated, but Coruscant, Tatooine, and a mining colony on Bespin? It would be hard to come up with three worlds less likely to celebrate the death of the Emperor.

But I'll try! ... Kuat, because of all the ship-building contracts, Byss, because it's full of true believers, and Naboo, because it's his homeworld. Please don't tell me they added Naboo to the DVD....

If Lucas really wanted to show the Galaxy celebrating the death of the Emperor, he should've shown us some worlds that really suffered under the Emperor but weren't under Imperial rule. It's his own fault that he blew up the only rebellious planet in the whole trilogy.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
Please don't tell me they added Naboo to the DVD....


Okay, I won't tell you that. I will tell you, however, that they added a shot of a planet where a distant gungan yells, "Wesa free!" Take that however you like.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: Mielr
The only change to the end of ROTJ that I don't mind is the brief shot of Luke hugging Wedge, but other than that, I HATE all the changes, and I refuse to watch the DVD. I detest the new CGI celebration scenes, the new song, the re-editing that takes out Luke's "wink" (or at least it seems like that's what they were trying to do) and the addition of Hayden.


Whoah, hold on there, man. Go back! I'm not familiar with these Luke/Wedge and Luke/winking alterations. Please elaborate.


Right after Luke comes back to the ewok village after he leaves the funeral pyre, there's a brief shot of him hugging Wedge (or shaking his hand, I forget which). It was in the 1997 SE and it's also in the 2004 DVD, but it wasn't in the original cut of Jedi. That was the only change that I didn't mind, because it was obviously an out-take from the original film, and it was interesting to see- albeit a very brief shot.

Now the "wink" (it's more of a "blink" really)...... in the original cut of Jedi, Luke is looking at the 3 ghosts and smiles, then sort of "winks" at them as he turns away with Leia under his arm- all in one continuous shot. In the SE and on the DVD- they edit it so that it cuts away from Luke and Leia onto Anakin's face (Sebastian Shaw in the SE and Hayden in the DVD...uuuh!!) and Luke's "wink" is sort of gone when they cut back to him.

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Hmm. I could have sworn I always remembered a Luke/Wedge moment. I'll have to go back and check that. And I never noticed those cuts in that last shot either. I'll have to check that out, too. Thanks!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Hmm. I could have sworn I always remembered a Luke/Wedge moment. I'll have to go back and check that. And I never noticed those cuts in that last shot either. I'll have to check that out, too. Thanks!


No problem! Check 'em out and let us know what you think about the differences.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
The only problem is that there's nothing even remotely scary about him, starting with his crappy voice.


I know. I had so much hope for General Grievous being a kick ass villain; but he was nothing. He had the gayest voice and Obi-wan whooped him like he was an antique can opener.
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I always thought that the whole jedi disappearing thing was meant to show that the Jedi had become one with the force sorta speak. Both Yoda and Obi-wan seemed to be quite wise and capable before they died, while the other Jedi (Anakin, Qui-gon, etc..) had emotional problems and imperfections.
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I liked the original ending of ROTJ that doesn't show all the planets celebrating. The latter ending is just too contrived. We're led to believe that the entire empire is overthrown in one night, when in reality that wouldn't be the case at all. No war is ever won in a single evening. I also liked the lonliness of the original Endor celebration (without the inserts of other planets); gives the sense that, at the moment, only a handful know about this great victory. And that's more realistic.
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Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
I dont mind the planets celebrating and the new music change instead of Yub Nub, its just Hayden(even though I dont mind him in the PT) instead of Sebastian Shaw that I just find unbearable to watch, I wanted to throw my TV out of the window the first time I saw him there, and have only seen once since and have no plans to again.


What is everyone's problem with Yub Nub? IMO its a great song with a catchy chorus thats much more exciting than the other one.
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Originally posted by: SpecialEditionSaboteur
Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
I dont mind the planets celebrating and the new music change instead of Yub Nub, its just Hayden(even though I dont mind him in the PT) instead of Sebastian Shaw that I just find unbearable to watch, I wanted to throw my TV out of the window the first time I saw him there, and have only seen once since and have no plans to again.


What is everyone's problem with Yub Nub? IMO its a great song with a catchy chorus thats much more exciting than the other one.
I agree- I love the Yub Nub song. When I first got the ROTJ soundtrack, I played it over and over again.

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Another thing about the disappearing Jedi while we're on the subject. Thinking about it a little longer I think it was the Jedi way to commit suicide. Look at it this way, Obi-wan and Yoda were the only Jedi featured in the saga to disappear when they died, and they both died willingly. Obi-wan lowered his saber and allowed Vader to strike a finishing move. And in ROTJ, while it is true that Yoda was suffering from old age, I always believed that he willingly gave up his life. This idea is reinforced when Luke says "but Master Yoda, you can't die!", which means that Yoda is actually choosing to die.
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For the Hayden/Force Ghost deal, this is one of those changes that I thought was completely unnecessary however have come to accept. I like the Special Editions and usually most of the changes don't bother me, however this is one of them that I just couldn't get around. Why put it in? What purpose does it serve? Does it not infact create another continuity error? I never thought Hayden's acting in the scene was that bad nor was that scene all that vital. People complain about Shaw being removed from the scene, but the way I see it Shaw's vital part in the film is infact still in the movie. That moment where he tells of his regret and sorrow to Luke and of his redemption is what is important and that remains intact in the film. People will argue this with me and that's fine, but what possible purpose does it serve for either Shaw OR Christensen to be there smiling at Luke? It only really confirms that he's passed onto the force...that's it really. It's not all that vital, so in that instance does it really matter who is there?

What SHOULD have been done though I think is that if Lucas was so adamant in changing it, was having them fade from their younger to their older selves in the force. That would have been atleast a comprimise. So while I don't agree that Hayden's 5 second role really ruins or destroys Jedi, I think it was handled wrong.
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Well, I would never say that it destroyed the whole movie, but Lucas's reasoning behind it does compromise the whole redemption aspect. Besides, that line of reasoning is the best possible motive behind it. But I have my suspicions that:

a. It was simply done as a futile and half-hearted attempt to connect the two trilogies together
b. It was done to make fans feel completely obligated to watch the movies in their improper order of I-VI. In other words, a laughing, "Screw you!" to the fans.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Hmm. I could have sworn I always remembered a Luke/Wedge moment. I'll have to go back and check that. And I never noticed those cuts in that last shot either. I'll have to check that out, too. Thanks!

Have you had a chance to compare the two yet?