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Empire of Dreams - what was your imagined Star Wars story... — Page 4

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According to the map, Tantooine and Naboo actually aren't that far away from each other.

That message from Artoo was one of the things that always made me wonder what the Clone Wars were. They must have been important, and must be a major part of history. What did you think the Clone Wars were?

Let's see if we can flesh out the Clone Wars a bit. What should they have been like? Should they have been as Lucas described them in AOTC?
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The Galaxy Map shows that Naboo and Tatooin are just inside and just outside the inner rim region respectively.

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in response to Darth Simon

although not having seen the clone wars cartoons yet, I would assume Obi-wan earned the rank of General during the clone wars, as it appears at the end of AOTC that the clones are under command of the Jedi.

I think it will be explained in the next film that Bail Organa was one of the only members of the Republican senate to remain loyal to the Jedi, once Palpatine gives the order for the Jedi to be eradicated, therefore it would make sense that Obi-Wan and the Jedi order served the republic and Bail Organa during the birth of the rebellion, shortly after they were declared public enemy number 1
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That's a great explanation of Leia's message buddy-x-wing. What about the rise of the empire? Would it happen as transition from the Republic to the Empire, or would it rise from nothing? I am really interested in hearing other takes on the rise of the empire.
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well, based on what was said of the map, i would take it that while yes, naboo is close to tatooine they are not 'right next to each other'. Hmmm, this is another reason naboo should be destroyed at the end of episode III. that way, with the current prequel story line, there would be no need to explain their closeness in proximity.

because as was discussed, i think most of our ideal prequel stories would not contain the planet naboo so it becomes a non issue.


buddy-x-wing, i have not seen the clone war cartoons either so this is entirely possible that he achieved the rank of general during this time period. and i guess he did/would have served bail organa under the light that he served the true republic as did the rest of the jedi and some of the senate members who would later have become leaders of the rebellion.

Rebel11_38, as far as the rise of the empire, this is the part of the prequel story that i really like...basically palpatine just slowly gains control over the senate. causes a fake war, where he is pulling the strings on both sides, so when you think about it no matter what side wins Palpatine is in control. also, based on the comment in episode IV about disbanding the senate and the last of the old republic is gone, the idea of the Republic 'winning' against the seperatists really being Palpatine's growth in power over the senate and the republic army. hopefully that makes sense...im kinda tired so it may not be totally clear.

I think part of the problem with a discussion such as this, is that it is very hard to remove ideas that have been introduced by the current prequals from our current thoughts and perceptions. had we done this back in 1998 or earlier the whole of the creative influence would be from us and not influenced by Lucas' stories.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I think the republic will gradually transform itself into the Empire as we know it, by episode 4, if you remember in the beginning of a New Hope during the meeting on the death star where Vader does the force-choke, one of the officers says something to the effect of 'if word got out of Leia's capture , it could create sympathy for the rebellian in the 'senate', then Tarkin says 'the Emperor has taken steps to dissolve the senate and remove the last traces of the old republic once and for all' (excuse me if I'm misquoting, I'm relying heavily on my memory of the scene, when I should be working) .

by the end of AOTC Palpatine has already politically manipulated himself into the highest position of power in the Galaxy and been granted emergency powers , once Palpatine turns public opinion against the Jedi by portraying them as the bad guys, and uses his clone army to defeat the trade federation seperatists, he will be perceived as a hero who brought order back to the Galaxy, (how do you think George W got re-elected?) corruption in the senate will continue to grow, as will Palpatines power, and it will be years until the general public realise how corrupt and evil the government have become.

Meanwhile Bail Organa, Mon Mothma etc will continue their work as a voice of reason within the Senate, whilst secretly organising a resistance movement (rebel alliance) against Palpatine and his new order.
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Apologies to all for pretty much repeating Darth Simon's last post, we must be on the same wavelength (great minds think alike).
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What about a scene towards the end of episode III where Vader reports to Palpatine. He tells Palpatine that the Jedi are being dealt with, but when Palpatine asks about Kenobi, he says that he escaped. Palpatine is not pleased and attacks Vader with force lightning. It would draw a parallel between the end of ROTS and the end ROTJ. Vader remembers the punishment for displeasing his master, but unline ROTS where he accpeted the pain and submitted to Palp., he stands up to him in ROTJ for the sake of his son.

It would also make a point of Vader mentioning that Obi-Wan got away. As we know from episode IV, Vader goes to Tarkin and tells him that he senses Kenobi. Tarkin only alludes to the fact that Obi-Wan should be dead by now, presumably due to old age. Vader never says anything about thinking he was dead, only that he hasn't felt this way since the last time he saw him.

Vader: "He is here."
Tarkin: "Obi-Wan Kenobi? What makes you think so?"
Vader: "A tremor in the force. The last time I felt it, it was in the presence of my old master."
Tarkin: "Surely, he must be dead by now."
Vader: "Don't under estimate the force."
Tarkin: "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Vader: "Obi-Wan is here. The force is with him."
Tarkin: "If you're right, he must not be allowed to escape."
Vader: "Escape is not his plan. I must face him alone."

Would a scene like this point too clearly to the fact that Vader is Anakin? Or it would serve as a nice detail to serve as a link between the movies?

I agree with what biddy-x-wing and Darth Simon both said about the Republic gradually shifting to become the Empire. Growing up and watching the movies, I guess I never really thought about where this evil would come from, just that it took over. I think Lucas got that story point right.

As far as Bail Organa goes, I think we need to see Obi-Wan and Bail working together in the first part of the movie during the Clone Wars, and maybe just a few times shortly after the wars end. After Palpatine has ordered the Clone Troopers to turn on the Jedi, there should be a scene where Obi-Wan goes to Alderaan to find Bail. Bail is already in conference with some of the Clone Troopers and perhaps a Republic Commander and tells them to take Obi-Wan away. Obi-Wan escapes. Later in the movie while the heros are fighting fro survival, the two need to meet again. It is at this point that we learn that Bail was only posing as a bad guy, so that Palpatine doesn't hear of his involvement in the resistance.

Before Obi-Wan goes to Alderaan, there could be a scene between either Bail and Palpatine, or Bail, Mon Mothma, and Palpatine, or just Bail and Mon Mothma. The point of the scene is Bail arguing against Palpatine not relinquishing his emergency powers now that the wars have ended. Perhaps even a remark that the P.O.W.s aren't even getting trials, they are being simply being executed. Bail starts to see the Republic under Palpatine start to become more a despotic dictatorship.

What do you think?
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So...the official episode III crawl doesn't inspire me with much hope for the next movie. I wish what we have come up with in here could have been the movie. If you were to come up with a text crawl for the movie inspired from these posts how would it read?
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In my head, the lighting is brighter like in ANH. It's all too moody in new films.

Also, when Anakin and Obi-Wan go at it, when I was 9 I always envisioned this would be something that Palpatine would preside over (just like the way he watches Vader and Luke go at it in Return of the Jedi).

Padme would wear less.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Zebonka, I am surprised to hear you say that. I feel exactly the opposite about the lighting and mood. I think that the new films are too bright and silly, not darker and moodier like the original films.

I think the idea of Palpatine watching the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin would have been cool. 'Cept, I think that in the case of making it work with other ideas already posted here, maybe Palpatine could be watching through a holo-feed or some sort of viewscreen. Maybe after the duel is over we could do a zoom out from Kenobi standing over the ledge that Anakin just fell over. Have it zoom out and have the screen eventually change to an electronic monitor and as the camera keeps pulling back we have a camera-over-the-shoulder shot of Palpatine laughing.

What do you think?
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I've been thinking about how we can make the statements made by obi-wan work in Ep III. I think that having a clone of Anakin taken from his severed arm would work to make those statements work. obi-wan could have witnessed this and thought that this dobbleganger killed the real anakin and thus fought him instead of anakin. That would be why he said vader was a pupil pf mine until he turned to evil. But the twist would be that the real anakin killed the clone, because he was the darker of the two.
You could also play sidious and tyranus' exchange at the end of ATOC in light of this info. Tyranus could have had anakin's severed hand taken on-board his ship before he left.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Also, the clone is thought to be the one who is assasinating the jedi at first, but it is uncovered that it is the real anakin
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
That is so lame.


Seconded.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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I appreciate the spirit of your idea Switch, but I don't really think it fits well in the over-all story. I think a big part of it is the fact that your idea, and the previously mentioned idea about Obi-Wan taking on another student during the story of episode III, just makes what would become another inpractical plot point.

Of course, I am looking at this as if the we are only trying to come up with episode III. The first two prequels and the original trilogy are unchanged. With ideas like these, there won't be enough to time to flesh them out in the midst of everything else going. The same is going to be true, I think, of General Grievous. He appears in episode III for only a brief time, and then poof! The same thing was done with Darth Maul. It was a story element introduced, made into a big deal, but ultimately was found wanting.

I hope you post here with some more ideas. It's nice to seem activity in here again.


Until later.
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Well, I posted that idea cause I thought that it would actually be something that Lucas would actually do. I agree that it is a lame one seeing as how we have a clone story already. I was thinking along the lines of the dark empire comic series from dark horse. The one where luke fights a clone of himself taken from his severed hand from ESB. I also see how this idea is a bit of a cop out.

I think that one of the best thing to do is to make anakin's character more splintered. It would support statements made by Vader in ROTJ like "That name no longer has any meaning." I always thought that that line was the Vader personality trying to keep the Anakin personality in check or something. Make it almost as if a singular event has such a strong impact on him that it fractures his personality. It would actually have been better if you saw this in the middle of AOTC.

This could also re-enforce obi-wan's statements to luke about his father.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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That's a good point, Radic. As it currently is, it's like Anakin slowly withers over years and nobody seems to notice. There' s no way he should still be a Jedi after killing the sand people village, and nobody noticing his descent is a bit of a ridiculous stretch of disbelief.

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as far as what event brings about this fracture in his personality is anyones guess. I thought that it might be some sorta dominering stance that Palpy had over him. This move would have begun before the events of AOTC. Which is one of the reasons why I didn't like Lucas' choice about the amount of time that passes during the movie. He needed to make a longer movie with a longer period of time passage during the course of the movie. Ditch the clone army story. The idea of a government that doesn't have an army is perpostorous! Even Isreal had an army during the time that they were a theocracy! And ditch the whole jango fett thing. If you want to make him a mercanery for hire out for palpy, padme, or some other senator of importance, than fine. but don't take up too much time on it, he's a third teir character, he doesn't need alot of time on screen. Keep the air of mystery about him and boba fett.


Heck, change all the PT movies, they all lack greatly in the story department. Clones are pretty much a cope out if they just serve a shallow purpose. We need to see the seeds planted in anakin that fracture his personality from Ep. I. Those kinds of things take quite a while to grow and we need to see that in anakin. The story has too many political manuverings in it. We didn't fall in love with the O OT because of the political part of the story, we fell in love with it because of the characters and the dynamic between them. The same needed to be with the Prequels.

Make Obi-wan the good father to anakin. And make Palpy the evil father that twist anakin into believing that Obi-wan is the evil father. Something like that would be far more interesting than what is there now.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Actually, I thought with the lackluster acting and poor screenplay, the story is one of the saving graces of the prequels. Some of the plotpoints could definitely have been refined, but overall it's one thing I really like about the PT, especially Palpatine's politcal manipulations. The Clones weren't really a cop-out so much as an explanation of why it's called the Clone War...

And for the record, the Republic isn't without military forces: Planets are free to create their own Militaries, but there was no offical "Grand Army" like the one created in AoTC, and one was needed to fight the seperatists.

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yeah, the acting was really bad and the screenplay was pretty wooden. The main story was pretty straight forward though. He should have just made it flow better. I guess I just need to get in to the habit of coming up with story ideas to get really good ideas.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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so storytelling is about conflict right. So why not have Palpy try to twist anakin against Obi-wan in AOTC. That will create a pretty strong conflict that would grow throughout the Clone Wars. Of course that is if we stick to the basic story that Lucas has written. I personally would have liked to see Anakin itroduced as a late teen fighter pilot during the Clone Wars. When Kenobi meets him, he should have an aprentice of his own. You could even have a friendship for between these two apprentices of kenobi. Later though that friendship turns to rivalry gone wrong. I like the idea of anakin being obbsessed with knowledge of the force, but we need a motive for him. Why does he crave this power so much before he turns to the dark side? Because he sees this power save the lives of those around him? Or is it a selfish thing? anyway, he goes searching for it since kenobi would not teach him any more yet. And he comes acrossed Sidious and begins his turn to the dark side. While he is assasinating the jedi, kenobi's old pupil, the first one, confronts him and is killed by anakin. This is pretty sketchy and somewhat lame but it could be worked through some.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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When you think about it, the Original Trilogy's stories weren't all that complex. It was the characters and their relationships that make it the superiour of the two, not really the story complexity.

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I agree with you on that. The characters and the dynamic between them made the movies better than the ones that are out there now. From that respect, it'd be better to just start from scratch.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie