Empire Strikes Back mono mix - GOUT sync & Comparison MP3 (Released)

As you may know, the discovery of a completely new mix of Empire Strikes Back was made last year with the release of Puggo Strikes Back. The sound mix came from a 16mm print that Jaxxon had supplied Puggo to scan and capture.

The history of this mix is completely unknown but it was determined that it was created after the 70mm and 35mm mixes perhaps for the 16mm market (schools, hospitals, etc) and has some similarities with foreign mixes which points to its chronological history. This mix is not a simple fold-down of the theatrical mixes and contains many differences such as new or alternate dialogue and sounds, more prominent music and effects (to account for the low dynamic range of the mono film standard), and oddly enough, some lines such as “the first transport is away” and “meet you at the rendez vous spot” are shifted completely.

Because of the uniqueness of the mix, I decided to do two things: 1) sync it to the GOUT and 2) create a left ear/right ear comparison file for those who would like to listen to and perhaps discover more differences.

First, much thanks go to Jaxxon for supplying the print and, of course, to Puggo who did all of the capturing, did an initial sync pass to his project and allowed me access to the uncompressed files to do this for the community. What I did is child’s play compared to what he’s done already.

I did all my work in Final Cut Pro X, and used the laserdisc 1980 stereo track taken from Harmy’s 1.0 as my syncing guide. Although Puggo’s initial sync would have probably worked fine without much work, I wanted the track to sync up as perfectly as possible to the stereo track so the comparison file would be easier to listen to. This required a bit of cutting and moving and time-stretching here and there - and never more than a couple frames - but this took less time than I imagined.

UPDATE 8-31-13:

First, here’s the link for the finalized FLAC file. The bit depth is a bit over the top due to FCPX’s lack of exporting fine-tuning.

https://mega.co.nz/#!6cBgHDCa!bv2FPn7Bzn0_2KVn5ig9wDXRbxw9xEm5FsHFIPwOnaA

I’m also going to include a compressed 192k/s AC3 for those who would like to have a smaller file to immediately mux in without having to go through compressing anything first. I know 192 is not a lot, but there is very little dynamic range in this mix as it comes from 16mm optical (and not a master mag) so there is very little to subtract sonically.

https://mega.co.nz/#!nAw22CLB!MX7ZMV1W_deW_96uD7DGW34LJ3oJqsVGwZURdhlzK-4

Finally, for those who would like to see what differences there are between this mono mix and the ordinary stereo mix, I have provided a 256k mp3 with the 1980 stereo track panned to the left ear and the mono mix panned to the right. You’d be surprised at all the subtle differences! I know I was! Please note that there is a 5 second segment somewhere that Puggo spliced in from the stereo track (still waiting to find out where) Also, the drum roll for the opening fanfare is missing on the original print so it’s not here either. There is also a frame of music from the end credits missing. These last two issues are fixed in the finalized file above.

This comparison file can be downloaded here:

https://mega.co.nz/#!mIQhTBbD!PCibkhx_rZsY-jzzHMAbtVb-aA9GdoH-Ut88kBU4ByQ

Catbus has also created a DTS-HD file if anyone is interested in that…?

(Moved a lot of info in this post to the 1st one)

I'd like to know what the best way to transfer a loss-less file over the internet..? I'm not very savvy about these things, and I don't have enough space on my dropbox. 

I haven't exported it yet in full quality, but I'm looking at 1.3 to 1.5 gigs.

I also wonder just how many people would really want to download an obscure sound mix to mux in with their GOUT projects. If it's not many, I can just wetransfer it whenever someone wants it. 

EDIT: If I transcode it in a loss-less format like FLAC, I think I could get it down even lower. 

I'd want it, and in FLAC preferably.

Just a FYI... there is about a 5-second missing segment somewhere in the mix that I patched with a fold-down of the stereo mix.  I need to go back and find out exactly where it is so I can post that information here.  Wouldn't want someone to list something from that patch as part of this mix.

Also, the audio was captured using the audio output of an ELMO 16CL 16mm projector (actually, the Kodak-branded equivalent).  No other processing of any significance was done, other than synching it to the video capture (which was quite tedious and took an entire month).

So, from what's been posted elsewhere, I've read that in addition to the 16mm mono mix, there's an 8mm mono mix which is also slightly different.  And then there was theatrical 35mm w/ mono release of Empire as well.  Is this correct? Any idea if the 16mm mix could possibly match the theatrical one?

Thanks for the info Puggo. Good job on blending those 5 seconds, didn't even notice when I was going over it. I had a hard time just getting the drum roll to blend in from the stereo source. 

As for the missing frame at the end credits music, I gave up trying to EQ the stereo source to blend in with the rest of the music (it kept sticking out like a sore thumb), so I just time stretched the gap and left it at that. 

Right, so I've pretty much finished my work and if you are interested in obtaining a FLAC file, send me your email in a PM and I'll send you a link. Feel free to point out any issues with sync or sound quality. 

I plan to normalize it and encode it to DTS-MA and AC3, and those versions should find their way to Harmy if he wants them.

I just muxed it with Harmy's Despecialized 1.0 and it's kinda fun hearing this really lo-fi audio - almost like going to a drive-in!

The synced audio is somewhere, but access is being handled via PM's.

File size could be reduced considerably FWIW.  Mavimao's sources are 32-bit two-channel mono.  Reducing that to 16-bit single-channel mono would cut down on the size quite a bit, and I did this with my encodes.  That said, whether to encode mono as one or two channels is open to debate.  Technically speaking, single-channel is better, more space-efficient, comes out of the proper center speaker, etc.  But on the other hand, some receivers don't know how to upmix single-channel mono to surround, and two-channel mono works better for them.  Pick your poison.

Thank you A-New-Hope for the sites. I'll check them out and try to put a link up for those who'd rather just have a link to click on. 

Yeah, Catbus, sorry about the huge bit rates. Final Cut Pro X doesn't allow one to fine tune exports (unless one buys the $50 compressor program) and for some reason wants to export everything at 24 bit/48000. Funny you mentioned 32 bit... I read somewhere that FCP handles audio at "32 floating bit point" and yet when I export the audio as a WAV file the info says 24 bits. I then transcoded the audio with Max into FLAC. There must be a weird correlation that I'm not understanding. 

Mavimao said:

Funny you mentioned 32 bit... I read somewhere that FCP handles audio at "32 floating bit point" and yet when I export the audio as a WAV file the info says 24 bits. I then transcoded the audio with Max into FLAC. There must be a weird correlation that I'm not understanding. 

Maybe the problem's on my end.  Audition said it was 32 bits, but maybe it was wrong.  Or maybe it's a deal where it's 32 defined bits in the spec but only 24 are actually used, who knows... either way it's too many bits IMO ;)

CatBus said:

Mavimao said:

Funny you mentioned 32 bit... I read somewhere that FCP handles audio at "32 floating bit point" and yet when I export the audio as a WAV file the info says 24 bits. I then transcoded the audio with Max into FLAC. There must be a weird correlation that I'm not understanding. 

Maybe the problem's on my end.  Audition said it was 32 bits, but maybe it was wrong.  Or maybe it's a deal where it's 32 defined bits in the spec but only 24 are actually used, who knows... either way it's too many bits IMO ;)

Agreed! 16 is more than enough!

My original files were 16-bit.

BTW, I sent Mavimao the 8mm audio files too.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

BTW, I sent Mavimao the 8mm audio files too.

So the 8mm mono is slightly different than the 16mm then?  Any sync plans for this?

CatBus said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

BTW, I sent Mavimao the 8mm audio files too.

So the 8mm mono is slightly different than the 16mm then?  Any sync plans for this?

The 8mm version that Puggo sent me is an abridged version that runs something like 30 minutes ...kinda like those read along books for kids, so it is impossible to sync. I can send it to you, Catbus, if you'd like. 

dave88 said:

Thanks for making this available Mavimao, and thanks for all your hard work Puggo. It is appreciated.

You're welcome, hope you enjoy it!

The 8mm version is from the Ken Films digests.  The parts that are included could be synched -- I think it would be interesting to sync those, and fill the remaining holes with some sort of narration, describing what is coming up and whether it is different from the other mixes.

These 8mm versions aren't to be confused with something like a Derann.