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Empire '97 SE

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You know what? I don't really think about this often, but I honestly don't have any real problems with the '97 Special Edition of Empire Strikes Back.

The only thing that I can think of is just showing a little too much of the Wampa. I think it was more suspense-ful when you could see less of it. Having said that, it doesn't look too bad seeing the whole Wampa.

Why did he have to add the bloody shuttle scene and overdub Fett's voice for the DVDs? Damn you, Lucas!
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I personally have no problem with the Wampa, as for the shuttle I didnt like the Vader platform walk, or the landing on the Star Destroyer from day 1, but have never minded the Shuttle actually in flight as it heads to the Destroyer its just the parts before and after I hate, but it has no seemingly logical reason for its inclusion in the first place as its does nothing to the story except hurt the flow as for Boba voice it wasnt done very well and wasnt Temurras finest performance ever. and have always prefered the old one....
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Empire's SE definitely is the least vile of the three. I didn't mind seeing the wampa too much, except that the continuity between the original puppet and the guy in the suit isn't quite there. It makes me wonder exactly why they couldn't have done that in 1980. Could a wampa suit have been that hard/costly to produce? But, yes, not seeing it was pretty suspenseful, but it doesn't lose much by seeing him.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I must say that I really love all the work which has been done for Bespin in the SE ESB. And it's not just a "more-cooler-looking" version, it really looks like McQuarrie's early paintings.
About Vader's Shuttle, it doesn't disturb me, but I must say that those scenes are pretty useless...
Concerning Boba's voice, I prefer the original voice, but for the sense, Boba having Jango's voice, well, it's pretty understandable, no?

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Understandable, yes, but it provides no solace for someone like me, who cursed the day a New Zealand maori played a Star Wars character. It's not that I hate maoris as people, I just hate their accent! It ruins the Fett mystique!

"Get 'im, ded!"

Translation: "Get him, dad!"
MTFBWY. Always.

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Originally posted by: theredbaron
I'm starting to come around on Clive Revil as well. I'm watching ESB right now and I must say, I really enjoyed his take on the Emperor.


Clive Revill was good. I wished he had done ROTJ. Lucas screwed Clive over big time along with Sebastian Shaw.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

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Just for info, Clive Revill has just made the voice for the original ESB Emperor. A woman made the appearance of the original ESB Emperor. It's not really visible, due to the prostatics and the holographic effect, but doing all that again for ROTJ would have been quite difficult...

Personaly, I've never liked the original emperor, and at the time of SE, I was disappointed that this scene has not been modified. So, I must say that I like the 2004 edition of the emperor, even if I don't really like the changes in the dialogues of this scene...

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Yeah, I knew that the visuals weren't Clive, and I'm not sure about him being 'screwed over' either. It may simply have been that he didn't look right for the part, or he may have even declined to do the part.
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About Vader's Shuttle, it doesn't disturb me, but I must say that those scenes are pretty useless...
Concerning Boba's voice, I prefer the original voice, but for the sense, Boba having Jango's voice, well, it's pretty understandable, no?


Concerning the shuttle, "disturbing" is exactly the phrase I'd use. To one who is use to the terse delivery of, "Bring my shuttle," the laconic delivery and almost iambic pentameter of, "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival," is disturbing. As is seeing the Death Star II hangar bay and hearing John Williams's score altered. I suppose that if you're not familiar with O-ESB or the score all that may seem perfectly natural, but if you are, it all seems just a bit off. (It's also unnecessary, both for the audience and for Vader. Shouldn't his SD always be prepared for his arrival? What preparations could possibly be necessary, or warranted? Did he expect them to set up a mariachi band in full mess dress to greet him?)

Concerning Boba's voice, it only makes sense if you make certain assumptions about what happened to Boba after Jango died. If he was taken in by other Mandalorians (?) like his father, or clonetroopers, he would've kept his accent. If Boba struck out on his own, the primary influence on his speech patterns would've been the media, which was probably dominated by the Core World accents like Coruscanti and Corellian. Although his Mandalorian accent might not have been lost entirely, it would have been attenuated, and he probably would've suppressed it when speaking to Core Worlders like Vader. I've heard that's what Morrison did when revoicing the OT, trying to blend the original Boba voice with his own.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: ScruffyConcerning Boba's voice, it only makes sense if you make certain assumptions about what happened to Boba after Jango died. If he was taken in by other Mandalorians (?) like his father, or clonetroopers, he would've kept his accent. If Boba struck out on his own, the primary influence on his speech patterns would've been the media, which was probably dominated by the Core World accents like Coruscanti and Corellian. Although his Mandalorian accent might not have been lost entirely, it would have been attenuated, and he probably would've suppressed it when speaking to Core Worlders like Vader. I've heard that's what Morrison did when revoicing the OT, trying to blend the original Boba voice with his own.


... Yeah... but you know, Star Wars is just Space Opera... Boba = Jango's clone , so, Boba voice = Jango voice...
You know, when I'm watching Star Wars, I'm not wondering about all those scientist or rational explainations, and I think I'm right, cause when we see lightsabers and sound in space, well, we know that we're not watching an ultra-realistic sci-fi movie...

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One thing I noticed about the "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival" line, is that is sounds VERY arrogant. Possibly another attempt to make Vader arrogant, in his true Anakin style.
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Ian was great as Palpatine, and continued to be so in the PT, so I'm very happy with Lucas' decision to have him play the part. However, I've always wondered this and have never gotten a real answer, why did Lucas change Emperors between ESB and RotJ? I understand the logistics behind recreating the Emperor as he was presented in Empire, but surely Clive Rivell could have returned with a make up job similar to Ian's. He would have been a very different Emperor, but it would have been interesting to see nonetheless. Lucas knew the Emperor was going to appear "in the flesh" at some point; he should have planned accordingly. I just don't understand what prompted him to change actors.
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... Yeah... but you know, Star Wars is just Space Opera... Boba = Jango's clone , so, Boba voice = Jango voice...
You know, when I'm watching Star Wars, I'm not wondering about all those scientist or rational explainations, and I think I'm right, cause when we see lightsabers and sound in space, well, we know that we're not watching an ultra-realistic sci-fi movie...


Wow. If you thought I was being somehow "scientific" or looking at SW as "ultra-realistic," then people like Curtis Saxton, Mike Wong, Brian Young, or Wayne Poe would blow your mind. (Incidentally, Saxton's "scientific, ultra-realistic" take on Star Wars is what got him a job working on the Incredible Cross-Sections, and I'm pretty sure he mentioned those other guys in the acknowledgements.)
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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And if you've ever seen Curtis Saxton's scientific paper he wrote supporting the Endor Holocaust, phew! It's, it's, it's, just amazing. I'll try to post a link.
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I liked the Wampa showing, because In the first place, the scary-wampa sequence in the OT wasn't really supposed to be THAT suspensful anyways...
the OT's less-is-more scary wampa isn't worse though... but in a SW film I'd say the extra wampa footage is great.

I didn't mind the Vader platform walk.

What I REALLY hate is overdubbing the original Fett voice... the acting is horrendously better than that New Zealand guy who plays Jango... the original voice is SOOOO much better!

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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
... Yeah... but you know, Star Wars is just Space Opera... Boba = Jango's clone , so, Boba voice = Jango voice...
You know, when I'm watching Star Wars, I'm not wondering about all those scientist or rational explainations, and I think I'm right, cause when we see lightsabers and sound in space, well, we know that we're not watching an ultra-realistic sci-fi movie...


That is a terrible line of thought. The idea that "Star wars is faaaaaannntasy! It doesn't HAVE to make sense!" leads to abominations like 3 million Clonetroopers in a galaxy with a million inhabited worlds. Or a 5 mile executor that "Nearly bankrupted the empire" or anything by West End Games or Kevin J. Anderson.


EDIT: Scruffy, you wouldn't happen to visit SDN or ASVS, would you?

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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I don't think The additon of the Wampa scenes improve it at all, I think seeing less of the thing adds more suspense, the Wampa roaring in pain looks cheesy to me.

The Clive Revill Emperor was better acted than Ian's new performance....Ian is too monotone, he looks drunk or like he had too many hits off the old bong....I'd like to see them try it again, but I doubt it.

The Bespin backgrounds look pretty good, but the CG Falcon flying through the city looks less realistic to me than the prop/model did.

I'm hoping Lucas decides to remove the new Boba Fett voice, for the few lines he had I thought the original voice had more character to it...don't care for Morrisons.

"alert my Star Destroyer..." really, nothing wrong with the original , since it didn't screw with the flow of Luke being rescued, I never wondered how Vader got back on his Star Destroyer since he'd already said "prepare my shuttle".

I was overjoyed when Lucas removed Luke screaming.

So I'd say I'm fine with the addition of the Bespin backgrounds, I'm fine with Ian, but he needs to reshoot the holo scene....and everything should be restored as before, A few matte lines could be touched up, and maybe some retouching on the rotoscoping.
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Have you thought about using other dialog from Ian in ROTJ and the Prequels to get the dialog as close to Clive's performace as possible?

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Redubbing the voice was a bad idea. Given Fett's line of work, would he even want his real voice coming out of that helmet? Would be a little hard to shed the armor and go totally icognito as Boba has done in the novels.
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Originally posted by: skyman8081
Have you thought about using other dialog from Ian in ROTJ and the Prequels to get the dialog as close to Clive's performace as possible?


I belive the best take on this would be to match Clive's performance with Ian's, keeping Clive's audio but having Ian's image there. I mean, Palpatine has changed voice so many times (in ROTS he changes his voice 10 times in a single scene), so it won't matter.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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It is definitely the least changed out of all three movies, so it doesn't bother me as much. As I always said, if Lucas just updated the effects, especially in the original, I probably wouldn't be that mad at the SE, but it is when he changes the scenes (Greedo shooting first, Hayden in ROTJ, and the dance song in ROTJ) that is when I get annoyed, and he just never stops either.