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Dune radical edit ideas

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Let’s discuss radical edit ideas for Dune.

To start we have Lynch’s original idea of ending the film much sooner, with Paul’s dream in the desert.
This opens the door to play with dream sequences, visions and non-linear elements to complete the story.

Another route is to restructure the story.
Starting with Paul and the prophesy might work. Perhaps only show the emperor late in the story?

How about forgetting the book and making Arrakis a desert area on a larger planet, with each house on a different continent? Might work better since we don’t have many space effect shots.

I’d like to know what you think about this

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It’d be nice if there was a way to remove the baron’s syphilis.

Eat the multi-billion dollar corporate slop and pretend it’s social justice, you weirdos.

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I think the 3rd Stage edition and the Spicediver Redux version are both good.

I would probably trim back on some of the Spicediver edits but remove even more inner thought dialogue. Improve some effects if possible.

I wish that all of the footage was available but it is not. I really like the film though.

Read through some of the scripts on dune info it is interesting.

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I’m a big fan of Spicediver’s version.

My main problem with Dune is that the ending has a very different editing style.
So perhaps I could try to edit the beginning in that style.

Most of the scenes can be shorter with no dialog loss, if edited properly.
He have enough reaction takes for that.

Perhaps internal monologue could be moved to Bene Gesserit mind reading or Paul’s vision sequences.

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Sorry wanted to link to this post…

Just having a quick play with color.

Guess at what shot was meant to look like

Original version

Pretty big difference and I think even if it meant fixing up the washed out effects through grading it better, it would be worth doing something like this to unlock the potential some of the shots already have which are sorely lacking vibrancy.

Would make for a very interesting color grade project for the special effects shots just to bring those up a notch would propel the film towards a much more enjoyable experience. It looks far less like a cardboard cut out now also. Forgive youtube screen grab it was only a quick test.

One more guess

Original

Doing this sort of process would not perform a miracle but I do think it’s exactly what it needs. It can look and feel much better than it does.

guess

Original

guess

original

The last 2 space shots are nowhere near as bad IMO

Missing Matte Element???

There is meant to be flames coming out the top of the tower thing…

I also have the story Book with the Caladan Matte painting in it…

But yeah it would be good to fix these up a bit remove internal monologue entirely apart from where absolutely needed and restore or revamp the special effects. Missing Laser Bolts in the Battle…

Spicedivers version is excellent but it is also a bit flabby in places.

We need the shots of Rabaan in the Bath tub and Sting having a knife fight when he comes out that mist shower thing then I think we pretty much have most of the film bar before re-shoots.

also this matte shot should be restored.

https://youtu.be/KwPTIEWTYEI?t=66

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Good work.
Might look even better if you correct them more to make the stars white.

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Could do… One of the things that bother me is the whole sequence is out of order when Paul and Jessica fly over the desert when cutting back to Yueh and the duke bites down on the tooth.

It’s not a major thing but Spicediver has it slightly in wrong order and that part does not make sense. Otherwise the structure is solid as a rock.

I would definitely keep rain on Arakis.

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Yes, some scenes are out of sequence.

Played a bit with the opening sequence. This can go right after the credits.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14eYOV5UNt04k2QzBlEoPFEHOlqhs18XF

It’s a mix of the deleted scene with the theatrical and TV version.
Disregard the fades, sound, etc, etc. Just a test.

It needs some shots of the Freemen assembled, the planet for orbit, etc…
But shows that there’s enough material to do something different!

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Yeah not Bad I think as you say inter-cutting images with the Speech would work Well.

You need to have something that visualizes what the Choam company is also.

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Yes. The TV intro paintings might be useful here.
Perhaps have them on some banners on the walls. This is where the radical ideas start!

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I think try to make a matte shot or something… Like this.

I am sad this freaky guy (2nd Stage Navigator) never made it in to the film… I wonder where he was supposed to feature.

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Yes! I like that. Some Space:1999 designs might actually work for Dune.

On the other hand hand illustrations would better fit the Fremen, since they are low tech.
There are 2 guys to the side of the reverend mother that might carry the pictures…

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Well I would say it needs to be Abstract. Blend the Speech with the Desert it is awful looking footage…

Show the Harvesters even if you re-use footage and flip it or something… Just have the Audio mixed with the Desert. Have the dual moons deleted shot off the trailer. Find Aerial Desert Footage sand blowing in the wind when she is talking about we are the secret say. Even use the mini-series perhaps show movement under the sand tease the worms with Worm sign and add a crack of Thunder.

A huge Sandstorm would also work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAEi9s9bEpY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhsD6kLYIMM

Feel the Power and the magnitude of what is being said.

Rouse the viewer and show them this Universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhP_9bFQvjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQQRaYnIyK8

A few more try to convey sand is like stars in the universe with the sandstorm show folding space match this together the sand like the stars.

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Good suggestions, will try something like that!

Makes sense to have images fading in. We would be seeing what the Reverend Mother sees.
Latter Paul will do the same, so it’s good to have the viewer introduced to this from the start.

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A lot of this information is repeated from the Princess Irulian Naration, So you could tag this 2nd Intro on the end of the other in a way so that you cover all the information but leave the bit out about the Benegesserit and Quizat Haderach. Because this other Intro introduces the Fremen Earlier but also talks of there Vision of the Prophecy.

So I would go with we know of Choam and the emperor and that they are the secret but then move straight on to the prophecy cutting out we know of the Benegesserit and leave all that information to Princess Irulian.

But yes striking Images is what is needed and Big powerful visuals. When you Cut to The Fremen Lady And see she has Blue eyes it will be cool you hear her voice and then are surprised by her difference in appearance.

This would act then as more of an intro for what is to come rather than simply information it set’s up the film for having “The Sight” or being able to see the future before it happens.

In the DVD Documentary they Have Rolling Shot of Sand 50% opaque over a Starfield… This is obviously one of the Missing Shots how you convey the Sand is like the Stars. Play with Transparancy and Opaque Visuals with Stars and the Desert.

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Thanks again for the great suggestions.
I was thinking of having parts of the princess narration on Paul’s visions.
I’d like to avoid narration at all if possible. I think the story is clear enough if you order the scenes logically.

I suggest this sequence:

» the Prophecy
» Paul at Caladan. No film book, just introduce his training, the Atreides staff and let him have the conversation with the Duke.
» Secret Report within the Guild and the Emperor.
» Paul’s test by the reverend mother

This is very self contained and avoids introducing many places and characters at once.

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4throck said:

Thanks again for the great suggestions.
I was thinking of having parts of the princess narration on Paul’s visions.
I’d like to avoid narration at all if possible. I think the story is clear enough if you order the scenes logically.

I suggest this sequence:

» the Prophecy
» Paul at Caladan. No film book, just introduce his training, the Atreides staff and let him have the conversation with the Duke.
» Secret Report within the Guild and the Emperor.
» Paul’s test by the reverend mother

This is very self contained and avoids introducing many places and characters at once.

Interesting different order…

The first shot of the film was meant to be seeing the Space Guild dropship through a water drop… Sounds again quite abstract. I had a quick flick through the TV edit and what it makes apparent that Missing scene cards for Special effects were filled with existing material from other Parts of the film.

Although I don’t neccesarily think they are needed it would be interesting to visually finish off some of what was planned.

If you are going from Prophecy to Caladan then make good use of Water being the means to transition to Caladan.

You know here is a radical idea… Use Battle Beyond the Stars Ships shots which have been in about 5 films in Dune!

Get Rid of the ornithopter and have this be the Ship they ride out to the Desert to see spice Production.

this looks more atreides by design I would opt this replace the Ornithopter

Then infuse it with a Battle of these which destroy the carry all but There is a small battle.

Have the Reverend Mother fly to Caladan in this ship.

Basically keep most of the Original Ships but expand it into a fully fledged Space Opera where possible. More Space shots more action less psychological and more fun.

More Brian Eno Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6rmhXQUPJc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZxZmbbWI8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LIrCaWSo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHPc_lFo_BQ

Weave some of this in also perhaps

https://youtu.be/rzHw3W_7Ft8?t=1796

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Ronster said:
You know here is a radical idea… Use Battle Beyond the Stars Ships shots which have been in about 5 films in Dune!

😃 Some of those might work, specially this one:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNGU3M2FjNTEtZjcxNC00NTNmLWI3N2EtMjBmMDBkYzBiNjgzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@.V1.jpg

Really similar to what we already have on Dune…

But the Guild has monopoly on space travel. This is important and we need to show it.
So a similar style for all craft is important.

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Yeah i can imagine this as a space guild ship. It would be good to have that as the ship that lands on Kaitain but it would need quite a bit of manipulation. Perhaps it would be beneficial to replace Kaitain empetors Palace also. But to keep the forground miniature shot and modify the underside to contain the dome. The Hammerhead part would be off screen.

It would make for much better establishing shots far more sci-fi and fantastical. It actually looks sinilar to the cocept art for the dropship.

The “Nell” model looks like it could be a fremen prototype attack ship crafted from remains of harvesters they had destroyed. It also resemble the still suits.

it’s weird and uncanny how alot of those models could be attached to various factions by their design.

I think it would possibly propel Dune to greater heights indeed.

like you say space guild has monopoly but the factions need small attack fighters.

If that big ship was introduced in suvh a way as to show the hammer head then the body and then the big square hole you could cut straight to the dropship without any modification at all. Showing the square hole would symbolise where the drop ship might fit. or something like that.

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Again interesting ideas. I agree that Dune needs to have better space scenes to introduce the planets.
Star Wars does this very well, the viewer gets oriented with no need for titles.

To show CHOAM we can use some videos from the Emperor - Battle for Dune game.
You can see the Guild and Bene Geserit together discussing things.
They would only work as matte elements. Will try something when I have the time 😉

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cool, I am not sure if the bene-gesserit reverend mother does the trip to Caladan with the help of the guild as it is implied that this will be done in secret. The tip off was from listening in with her powers from outside the room.

This seems to be an independant act on behalf of their faction to test Paul in secret unbeknowst to the emperor and the space guild.

So this trip would be clandestine I feel similar to the Guild visiting Kaitain.

So they must have secret Navigators and perhaps this is where the 2nd stage navigator would have featured perhaps.

If they wanted him dead perhaps caution was urged or obviously some sort of plot point is amiss wether it was done in knowledge of the guild or not

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I think it’s one of those “you know I know you know” situations.

The guild doesn’t care about the sisterhood knowing.

The visit to the Emperor might even be intentional to let them know 😉
Because right after the visit, the Reverend Mother is prepared to kill Paul.

So they take her to Caladan, no questions asked. It’s in their interest.
I think the secrecy is only not to loose face.

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Here is the pretty Big Section that has been excised it Has 2 scenes that could be recreated - Emperors Report and Guild Report.

219K. EMPEROR’S WORLD REPORT
VOICE
Seventeen Great Houses of the Landsraad have
reported a significant delay in delivery of
spice per CHOAM agreement. This constitutes
a serious violation of CHOAM codes. Contact
Baron Vladimir Harkonnen immediately.
219H. INT. GREAT HALL - ARRAKEEN PALACE - DAY
A furious Rabban sirs in a black steel tub in the Great Hall. A squad
of TROOPS stands at attention in front of him, listening to his
screaming fit.
RABBAN
Falsify the reports. We can’t hide it all,
tell them we’ve lost only two hundred
harvesters… and forty carryalls… and
don’t let my uncle know about the destruction
of the spice silos… I will catch this
Muad’Dib and suck the blood from him!! SUCK
THE BLOOD FROM HIM!!!

Rabaan Punches the Light above him and the Black Liquid drips over him.

  1. Int Ornithopter Day -

A Furious Rabaan looks Down from an Ornithopter. Below Several Harvesters Burn and a Huge Carryall lies Smouldering in Ruin.

  1. through to 227

Basically Calling on The Sandakar Captain and this is the knife fight I was telling you with Fayed. Thulfer is doing his very best to Make the Baron Worry about the Situation that is growing on Arakkis. Fayed beheads the Snadakar Captain that is more in allegance with the Emperor than Harkonan. We then have a scene where Alia is using the Voice to somone who does not like her for what she is This part tells us that she was born with all the knowledge of a Bene Geseritt Reverand mother.

Then this.

  1. NEW SCENE - WORLD REPORT
    VOICE
    Stand-by … warning … we have just
    received a coded threat from the Guild.
    Spice production is in serious jeopardy…
    Giedi Prime supplying false reports… Guild
    to visit Emperor in one standard day.

This then goes on to the scene which was meant to feature the 2nd stage guild navigator! Which sadly does not but the scene is there not the 2nd Stage Navigator. This is strange because if the mask was done all that was required was the Glass Tank to go over the Head perhaps the mouth needed animatronics but… It does not add up why it is not there… Too Disturbing because he is half humanoid?

So there is part of the Big Chunk that was chopped out we have not seen and the 2 reports which were also excised.

There is also Max Von Sydow death scene by a Egg Cluster of Baby Sandworms burst near or around him when he is left in the desert. This is the origin of “The worm is the spice, the spice is the worm”

The Baron Lobotomises Nefud

Also Mentioned is a scene where Sandakar Troops Stab Atreides through the back of their heads and come out there nose or front of there face with a Knife weapon.

If you discount re-shoots this is practically the main chunk of excised material Bar Missing Special effects shots opticals.

You also have the deleted scene with Alia saying “Paul has taken the water of life” but her voice was to be over dubbed with kyle McGlauchlans voice for some of her other lines as Paul was talking through Alia and this was to be quite trippy Tunnel sequence showing you the Place where a Bene Geseritt dare not look into a black hole prior to all bloodline knowledge if you like.

Seeing a theme of Censorship here though and toning down removal of disturbing images and Gore… So yeah it’s not on the DVD because it starts to get really Brutal + weird towards the end.

Hope this is useful 😃

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That’s great info!

Indeed that part is missing from the film and it shows. A second guild report is doable, since we already have one and it only needs static images.

Here’s what I have with the intro linked to Paul’s dream and the first Atreides segment.
Used the water theme to link the segments and it works I think.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SLsn1g-C1XOcqune3uuvUu4J6dRMG0Zi

I’ve included the two moons effect from the trailer 😉
It’s a rough edit in places but it does go from A to B and provides good explanation.

We know of a secret and a higher power at work, we see that it’s connected to Paul.
But we see this from Paul’s POV, so we dont’ know much.
Also important is Jessica mentioning “it has to be this night” regarding the conception of Alia.

The space opera aspect will come on the next segment (guild + emperor).

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I think it is Good, I think the Caladan Part flows much better than the Introduction. Pauls Dream is well done here also.

I think I can kind of see what you have in mind and building things slowly. And it is refreshing and introduces things more slowly.

To focus on the Intro here are my thoughts on this part.

I like the shot of the Fremen Standing listening and the 2 moons that we’re added.

To break this down to how it would of went I noticed something Key to how the Visuals would be represented.

Forget the Sand of the Desert throw the desert away visually get rid of it.

Have her Voice simply over Drops of Water inter-dispersed with some brief Images (Moons shot and Rings and Stars smoke an eye) that have meaning but Abstract then fade in to her Hands Being Cupped Keep it very Minimal. After this it was originally Meant to show a water Drop similar to what is in the Bladerunner DVD unused credits over the Guild ship Landing so Perhaps use the Deleted Bladerunner Credits scene for inspiration. Inter-disperse the shot of the Fremen warriors between the Shots at the end leaving a pause between her lines feel like Jump Cut.

If you do something like this I think it would be Perfect. But I don’t think it is Bad I just think we need to get to what the Visuals are and she is not meant to be seen until her Hands Dissolve through the Water. Use Dissolve Transitions Frequently like I said Transparency.

https://youtu.be/kQGTVdLibuo?t=26

Time an Opaque Water Drop When she Lifts Her Hand up like Pauls Hand surrounded
by the Water and the Rings see how that works.

You could Build this from a black screen all the way up to a dissolve into her Hands being Cupped.

THe Caladan Part is Good I have no Critique on it. You will Obviously get rid of TV edit Voiceover I assume.


Thinking of the only Report that we get in the film that survived I noticed that it is spoken by Kyle Mcglaughan, (SEcret Report within the Guild) but something tells me it should not be… Were these Reports to be given by the Thinking Machines? Perhaps a more Robotic Synthesised voice would be more fitting. It feels off and I think they were thinking Paul would have this as part of the Film Book sequence which is Dumb because it is for the Voyeur of the film and not any character that would feature in the film.

Perhaps…

https://www.speaknspell.co.uk/

Lol 😃