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Dr. No Rare Uncut Version 1st Beta/VHS release 1982 — Page 3

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Williarob, that was a fascinating read, thanks not only for writing it but taking the time and effort to bury this urban legend once and for all. Posts like that are why I enjoy being a member of this site. 😃

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Wow, that was quite a thorough effort to find the truth behind this mystery. Great read!

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Interesting reading well at least now we know

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I don’t know how accurate these anecdotes are, especially given the myths regarding Dr No but perhaps others can clarify?

https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/467998-what-original-aspect-ratio-island-earth.html#post7059959

https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/467998-what-original-aspect-ratio-island-earth.html#post7060685

I never saw the laser disc versions of Dr. No and From Russia With Love so I can’t comment on the framing, but the DVD of Goldfinger is the same 1.66 as the 30th Anniversary Laser Disc (I believe the movie was released in 1.66:1). I did notice differences in some of the video versions of the Bond movies, especially Thunderball, which has VHS versions missing some music and a line uttered while Bond and Leiter are in the helicopter, but spoken by another character (presumably they wanted us to think it was Leiter who spoke the line). Also there are two versions of the line Bond speaks when he emerges from Largo’s shark pool. The current dvd has the music replaced and the “manta ray” line removed, but it has a different version of the 007 music from the original film, and which also is in the new edition of the soundtrack CD.

The line where Bond emerges from Largo’s shark pool: One version is “Now you can tell them about the one that got away” the other is “better luck next time”. All the old CBS/FOX video versions had one version, since MGM/UA took over it has been the alternate version.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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JayArgonaut said:

I don’t know how accurate these anecdotes are, especially given the myths regarding Dr No but perhaps others can clarify?

I own that laserdisc of Thunderball and I can confirm all those things that were changed in later releases are in there. (LD is missing a scene with Bond and the massuse after Lippe burns, alternate unddubbed lines from Largo, the shark line, manta Ray, alternate end music) it’s all there. I can rip it and share with anyone who wants it

I also have the 1.66:1 laserdiscs of Dr. No, Russia, and Goldfinger

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Thanks for the clarification and the offer, that’s very nice of you. Yeah, count me in, I would definitely like to see this version. It was very likely the version that I would have seen on ITV (UK) during the 80s but I didn’t pay that much attention to Bond films back then. 😃

What’s your verdict on the 1.66:1 LD’s vs the DVDs and Blu-ray releases, out of curiosity?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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JayArgonaut said:

Thanks for the clarification and the offer, that’s very nice of you. Yeah, count me in, I would definitely like to see this version. It was very likely the version that I would have seen on ITV (UK) during the 80s but I didn’t pay that much attention to Bond films back then. 😃

What’s your verdict on the 1.66:1 LD’s vs the DVDs and Blu-ray releases, out of curiosity?

I’ll have to compare the 1.66:1 LDs but if I remember I think they are similar if not the same. (LD might have slightly different color timing)

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Great work Williarob even though you had to jump through enough hoops yourself. We salute you!
It was certainly a trip down memory lane for me as well!
I’m the MI6 user Grunther in that discussion and I do remember corresponding with this “workprint collector” Gunbarrels007 which lead absolutely nowhere.

His original post was edited so I can’t remember his claims but through the trail I went on, he probably wasn’t able to play Dr No but was happy to spread these myths and wet peoples appetites with infuriating 2 second clips of the Goldeneye workprint …being more interested in youtube views than preservation.

His youtube channel (Robert Bolton) shows him not to be particularly legit- as he passes himself of as Pierce Brosnan in a shoddy made gun barrel claiming it to be a screen cap of an alternate.

I see he also surfaced on here last year:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Goldeneye-Workprint/id/59560

Reading back through the MI6 discussion…I recall how completely indirect he was and having a very active imagination, conjuring up whole alternate versions of film based on a on-set photographers still.

In the middle of all this, in 2014 I PM’d him asking if he would like to trade against many Bond related TV programs I had collected. After that failed attempt, I asked if he would give me the name of the CBn member so I could discuss directly. Again no joy.

Searching CBn myself, I believed I found the user - check this out, dating back to 2007:
http://debrief.commanderbond.net/topic/41484-the-missing-daylights/

The post is started by a “Dkrausee”, using similar language such as “more video information”. WTF is that I do not know- video artefacts?!

Further down, his “friend”, FLEMINGFAN responds and is none too pleased. However he reveals its temp tracked with Leon which we know was true from interviews with Serra.

It all seems to tie up and we have our man, unfortunately by then FLEMINGFAN was not active on those forums so I didn’t get a response.

There had also been other uploads that had LTK music patched in - whether this is another genuine version of the rough cut or was done by Robert, I would have to check more. Sometimes a “Not for duplicate” caption appears and its only ever scenes from the 1st half of the film. I’m sure if he did have it all ripped, he would have teased the shit out of a lot more.

All that was left was to reach out and encourage Dkrausee/Gunbarrels007/Robert Bolton to pass it on to the Dossier like I and many others had been doing.
I really don’t see the point of it collecting dust only for a couple of pairs of eyes to see it. I really don’t get that whatsoever.

As a spin off to this- in that CBn discussion I see there is mention of a daylights trailer that had an anti-piracy warning. Has anyone here ever seen that?
http://debrief.commanderbond.net/topic/40974-the-living-daylights-rare-british-trailer/

Here’s the poster of it:
https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/3374/JAMES-BOND-THE-LIVING-DAYLIGHTS-1987-Piracy-Warning-amp-U-K-Quad-Posters

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Any were know were I get the uncut version of dr no
Tomorrow never dies work print
And golden eye work print

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There’s no telling where this will go next.

“For England, James!”
-Alec Trevelyan, GoldenEye (1995)

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The title of this thread should be changed haha. Also Robert Bolton is still sharing stuff about the Goldeneye Workprint and sharing the same 10 second clip and saying “oh I don’t have access to it” when asked where to find it or if he can share it. Who knows if that WP even exists either.

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To clarify a bit on the above talk for GF and TB:

All pre 1995 releases had the original 1965 mono mix which had the manta ray line with the other differences and the ending cue was Thunderball. The 1995 remix somehow unearthed the alternative mix and stereoized it by simply laying in the score in stereo which can be overpowering. All later 5.1 releases use this 2.0 matrix mix from the LD boxset, and finally the UE and BD added the original mono back as a lossy alternative.
The 1989 LD has the mono and is a bit color boosted but is my favorite. The Connery Collection v2 is the same master. The CAV LD box is the same element used and is of course improved in PQ, and was recycled for the late release THx CLV movie only disc that adds an ac3 bump. This was ported for the SE DVD.

While I grew up with the remix differences and it took me a while to get used to the mono-I now only watch with the mono. It’s far more accurate and a better mix. I have no idea (and neither does anyone I know of-even in the Bond community) as to the origin of the alternate audio but my guess would be a test 70mm mix or perhaps differences between UK and US audio mixes on the original release.

GF has an interesting video history. The Criterion release is a different look and feel and seems like it was done right from an old Technicolor print. It has the snipped frames intact from Oddjob turning off the highway. It has the original mono. The first MGM widescreen attempt was more open than the Criterion and used a different source that was more stable so I’d assume it was some sort of interpositive. The MGM was 1.6 or so whereas the Criterions were all 1.75. However the first go round looks a bit contrasty and not vivid like the Criterion. This is found in the Connery box 1 and the standalone reissue with original art. Then for the CAV LD boxset they made a new master with much improved color grading and PQ-but it is the same source element. I think in many ways these were done like the 2001 boxset as a way to fix the flaws of the prior CLV movie only disc and make a nice big collectors CAV boxset. The CAV set is my personal favorite edition of the film even though I acknowledge the Criterion is likely closest to the original release look. The boxset is 1.66 and has mono but on the MGM discs the title song is replaced with the stereo version from the soundtrack master. Also on the MGM versions those few damaged frames are snipped out when Oddjob turns off the highway.
As evidenced by another OT thread the rumored 003 bomb countdown was actually in original December 1964 British release prints both 35mm and some 16mm prints. Apparently the 007 clock was spliced in to some prints and put in all remaining UK prints before being in all the Us prints for the film’s 1965 US premiere dates.

Like all the non-scope Bonds for the SE DVD, GF was cropped to 1.78:1. While this is still around the safe limits for framing flat matted widescreen the SE DVDs did crop a bit too much on all five done this way and the 1.66 is the best ratio for the initial three in terms of composition.

At this point I just want to be the EON archivist because apparently they have all kinds of stuff floating around like mag stereo for OHMSS, DAF, LALD, TMWTGG-the 70mm YOLT that only played in Japan along with the other 70mm blowups rumored to exist, the mono for TSWLM and the list goes on…

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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captainsolo said:

I have no idea (and neither does anyone I know of-even in the Bond community) as to the origin of the alternate audio but my guess would be a test 70mm mix or perhaps differences between UK and US audio mixes on the original release.

As a Pre teen and teenager I had seen the 1 st 3 of the Connery Bond movies during their original runs at the Theater. I seriously doubt that Dr. No had a 70mm mix. The Theater I saw the 1st 3 movies had 70 MM capabilities. I Saw Exoudus in 70MM there. I doubt DN had even tested any 70mm footage as that films budget was very tight. It was never expected to be a big film. They Milked that movie for all it was worth by the time Goldfinger had come out. The theaters in America had routinely run DN & FRWL Saturday Matinee double features. They even showed them during the kids matinee in my town, 6 RC cola bottle caps would get you in. This was before the rating systems.
Just my 2 cents worth.

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captainsolo said:

Like all the non-scope Bonds for the SE DVD, GF was cropped to 1.78:1. While this is still around the safe limits for framing flat matted widescreen the SE DVDs did crop a bit too much on all five done this way and the 1.66 is the best ratio for the initial three in terms of composition.

Thankfully the 1.66:1 OAR was restored for the GF UE.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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They restored OAR but did not adjust the correct framing.

FRWL especially as too much air on top.

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That’s interesting. You wouldn’t happen to have an image comparison by chance would you?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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For those who are curious like myself:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/from_russia_with_love_dvd_review.htm

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews28/goldfinger.htm

The Goldfinger comparison has shown me that my HDTV recording has been vertically cropped by the broadcaster, not quite as severely as the SE DVD but still badly enough when judged against the UE DVD and Blu-ray.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

captainsolo said:

Like all the non-scope Bonds for the SE DVD, GF was cropped to 1.78:1. While this is still around the safe limits for framing flat matted widescreen the SE DVDs did crop a bit too much on all five done this way and the 1.66 is the best ratio for the initial three in terms of composition.

Thankfully the 1.66:1 OAR was restored for the GF UE.

Here’s a fun fact: 1.66:1 is not the original theatrical aspect ratio for the first three Bond films, the correct AR is 1.85:1. Since the mid-fifties, the most common AR in the UK was 1.75, but Kinematograph Weekly specifically lists 1.85 as the intended ratio for the first three Bond films. This documentation is from a British trade journal at the time of principal photography so it’s as good as gospel:

Imgur

A big thank you to Bob Furmanek of the 3D film Archive (http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/) for pointing this out to me this weekend.

Now, like most of you, I like minimal cropping, so I’m glad there are 1.66:1 versions available, but it’s also nice to know how people saw it in theaters in 1962. Looking at an original IB Tech film frame from a 1962 print, we can see that there is slightly more picture information available, my math puts it at around 1.58:1 if you include all of it. I believe it was hard matted in camera to 1.66:1 so there is probably a little more picture information on the sides on the original negatives than made it onto this print.

Imgur

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:

A big thank you to Bob Furmanek of the 3D film Archive (http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/) for pointing this out to me this weekend.

A big thank you in turn to yourself for pointing this out to us. 😃

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Williarob said:

JayArgonaut said:

captainsolo said:

Like all the non-scope Bonds for the SE DVD, GF was cropped to 1.78:1. While this is still around the safe limits for framing flat matted widescreen the SE DVDs did crop a bit too much on all five done this way and the 1.66 is the best ratio for the initial three in terms of composition.

Thankfully the 1.66:1 OAR was restored for the GF UE.

Here’s a fun fact: 1.66:1 is not the original theatrical aspect ratio for the first three Bond films, the correct AR is 1.85:1. Since the mid-fifties, the most common AR in the UK was 1.75, but Kinematograph Weekly specifically lists 1.85 as the intended ratio for the first three Bond films. This documentation is from a British trade journal at the time of principal photography so it’s as good as gospel:

Imgur

A big thank you to Bob Furmanek of the 3D film Archive (http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/) for pointing this out to me this weekend.

Now, like most of you, I like minimal cropping, so I’m glad there are 1.66:1 versions available, but it’s also nice to know how people saw it in theaters in 1962. Looking at an original IB Tech film frame from a 1962 print, we can see that there is slightly more picture information available, my math puts it at around 1.58:1 if you include all of it. I believe it was hard matted in camera to 1.66:1 so there is probably a little more picture information on the sides on the original negatives than made it onto this print.

Imgur

That’s spot on. The initial MGM widescreen LDs for DN-FRWL-GF are indeed at about a 1.58 ratio and reveal more than any other matted widescreen release.

While these work fine in 1.78 and 1.85 it requires careful framing which is not often done. Criterion did a better job on LD at 1.75 than MGM did in 1.78 for the SE DVDs for example. I prefer having 1.66 as it gives them perfect breathing room and all compositions seem improved over the tighter framings.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com