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Don Imus and the race issue thread. — Page 3

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan

Please give me an example of where an underaged character had sex on the CW (WB is defunct, C3PX).


Is it? How long ago did that happen? I went for a number of years without owning a TV, I have one now on loan from my sister (with a whopping big thirteen inch screen!), but I rarely turn it on. My wife uses it to watch the food network from time to time. So yeah, I am pretty out of the loop. Back when I did have a TV, which was back in the days when the WB was a big thing and ST:Voyager was in its last seasons. It seemed pretty glorified. If they have changed that now and the glorification of underaged sex is now absent, then I would say television has improved a bit since then. My overly outdated examples are Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where you had undersaged high school students going at it quite often and the only consequence that ever came about was Angel turing evil as a result of his night time adventures with Sara Michelle Gellar (one of my friends really liked the show and would tell me about it all the time, I never got into it myself). Dawson's Creek was another show that I remember getting a lot of flak for its depictions of glorified underaged sex. These are just two examples I can think of, I imagine if I was a rampant teen drama watcher I could give countless others, I only know these two because I watched some of Buffy with my friend and listened to him talk about it for countless hours, and the other because it was much talked about for that very reason. Perhaps these shows were the exeption. If these type of shows no longer exist and if every time an underage couple goes at it their lives fall apart (though that is a little bit extreme to the opposite side) then all the better I suppose. For some reason I have a hard time believeing that.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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You watched Buffy and Dawson's Creek, but you complain about its content? Or are you speculating based on hearsay?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Didn't you read my post at all? I explained all that quite clearly I thought. Dawson's Creek was a big deal back during the time because it had underage high school students in casual sexual relationships. I have never watched it, but I have no reason not to believe what I have heard, nor have I ever heard anybody defend the show and say that it is not true. Buffy did, without a doubt depict casual underage sex. As I explained, my friend was a fan of the show and I stomached through a few episodes with him, and heard him talk about plenty of others.

However, even for somebody who is a die hard fan of either of those two shows, why is it so unbelievable for them to complain about some of their contents? Do you agree with every bit of content found in any given film or TV show you watch ADM? Why do you have to ask if it is just hersay? I refuse to believe somebody who knows enough about TV to know the WB is defunct, honestly doesn't think that teenage sex is glorified (or at least has been within the past 10 years, like I said before, perhaps they purged teen dramas of this, but I find that hard to believe) by the media. Unless all you watch are after school specials, I don't think there are a lot of shows on TV that actually deglorify underaged sex a whole lot, maybe there are, but I bet it is glorified at least as often if not twice as often. But like I said, I never even turn on the TV, so there is a good chance I am wrong. I am judging this over what I have seen of TV nearly ten years ago.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Didn't you read my post at all? I explained all that quite clearly I thought. Dawson's Creek was a big deal back during the time because it had underage high school students in casual sexual relationships. I have never watched it, but I have no reason not to believe what I have heard, nor have I ever heard anybody defend the show and say that it is not true. Buffy did, without a doubt depict casual underage sex. As I explained, my friend was a fan of the show and I stomached through a few episodes with him, and heard him talk about plenty of others.

However, even for somebody who is a die hard fan of either of those two shows, why is it so unbelievable for them to complain about some of their contents? Do you agree with every bit of content found in any given film or TV show you watch ADM? Why do you have to ask if it is just hersay? I refuse to believe somebody who knows enough about TV to know the WB is defunct, honestly doesn't think that teenage sex is glorified (or at least has been within the past 10 years, like I said before, perhaps they purged teen dramas of this, but I find that hard to believe) by the media. Unless all you watch are after school specials, I don't think there are a lot of shows on TV that actually deglorify underaged sex a whole lot, maybe there are, but I bet it is glorified at least as often if not twice as often. But like I said, I never even turn on the TV, so there is a good chance I am wrong. I am judging this over what I have seen of TV nearly ten years ago.


Uh, actually, Buffy didn't really depict casual sex at all. If my memory serves correctly, every character that was in a relationship that ended up with sex being involved was in some kind of committed relationship. Aside from Buffy and Angel getting it on (Angel was a Vampire, so not a lot can happen from that anyway), the only other two underage people were Willow and the wolf guy (can't remember his name now). There was nothing casual about their relationship though. They were in love and, at the time, he wasn't going anywhere. They were in a very committed relationship. The only casual sex between underage people on Buffy was the one episode where Xander and Faith got it on. All the sex that happened between Buffy and Spike wasn't underage. Buffy wasn't about any of that though. Buffy was a teenage drama set in a supernatural world. If you know of any episodes that did depict underage casual sex, feel free to cite them. I have all 7 seasons on DVD

Contrast that with Dawson's Creek. Dawson was trying to get it on with Katie Holme's character (again, I don't know all the character names). Then along came miss whore (sleeps with just about everyone, or so it's portrayed). Dawson starts doing things he wouldn't normally do and the only major consequence at the time was a little humiliation. Then you have another character who has a reputation for sleeping around and she eventually does do just that. Then you've got Pacey sleeping with his high school teacher. The entire show was based around a bunch of high school students dealing with the drama of who they're going to sleep with and when it's going to happen. I watched enough of it to know that it just got really lame.

Dawson's Creek was not an exception. For a while, all WB put on was "teen angst drama" that was nothing more than a bunch of high school students trying to figure out who to sleep with and when to do it. In fact, the only program on the CW that I still watch is Smallville. Everything else on that channel is a bunch of high school drama crap. Everwood, Laguna (or is it The Hills), the OC. It's all really just a bunch of junk.

The CW is a brand new network as of this season. The WB just recently ceased to exist, so it hasn't been gone that long.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Speaking of underage sex, I heard this song the other day called "There Goes My Life" by Kenny Chesney. Although I don't usually like newer country songs (Hank Williams Sr. rules!!!) this song hit a note and I found the writing to be great.

Music Video

Lyrics

All he could think about was I'm too young for this.
Got my whole life ahead.
Hell I'm just a kid myself.
How am I gonna raise one.

All he could see were his dreams goin' up in smoke.
So much for ditchin' this town and hangin' out on the coast.
Oh well, those plans are long gone.

Chorus:
And he said,
There goes my life.
There goes my future, my everything.
Might as well kiss it all good-bye.
There goes my life.......

A couple years of up all night and a few thousand diapers later.
That mistake he thought he made covers up the refrigerator.
Oh yeah..........he loves that little girl.

Momma's waiting to tuck her in,
As she fumbles up those stairs.
She smiles back at him dragging that teddy bear.
Sleep tight, blue eyes and bouncin' curls.

He smiles.....
There goes my life.
There goes my future, my everything.
I love you, daddy good-night.
There goes my life.

She had that Honda loaded down.
With Abercrombie clothes and 15 pairs of shoes and his American Express.
He checked the oil and slammed the hood, said your good to go.
She hugged them both and headed off to the West Coast.

And he cried,
There goes my life.
There goes my future, my everything.
I love you.
Baby good-bye.

There goes my life.
There goes my life.
Baby good-bye.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi For a while, all WB put on was "teen angst drama" that was nothing more than a bunch of high school students trying to figure out who to sleep with and when to do it. In fact, the only program on the CW that I still watch is Smallville. Everything else on that channel is a bunch of high school drama crap. Everwood, Laguna (or is it The Hills), the OC. It's all really just a bunch of junk.

The CW is a brand new network as of this season. The WB just recently ceased to exist, so it hasn't been gone that long.


Most of the stuff on ABC Family is no different.
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Alright, so is my saying that underage sex is glorified by the media accurate or am I wrong about it?

And with the Buffy thing, I guess I used the wrong words with "casual" and "depict". I suppose depict would be to say it shows it on screen. As lordjedi pointed out most of the couples having sex on the show are commited couples, so casual was the wrong word. But even the sexual relationship with the red haired girl and Seth Green's character was shown in a positive light right? And they were both underage. My mentioning of Buffy was in response to ADM saying,

Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
It seems to me that the only point of view, that of encouraging underage sex, the one that's being suggested is rampant, is actually absent.

You all are making some pretty damning accusations here, so you need to be sure of what you're saying.


I would say Buffy is proof that my damning accusations are of something that is far from absent. With what lordjedi said about Dawson's Creek and the CW network, I would hazzard to say I may be more correct than I thought.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Most of the stuff on ABC Family is no different.


Um, ok. I very rarely watch ABC Family and usually only when I'm at my mom's house.

In addition to what I posted last night, I did forget a couple of times that sex was shown, or at least implied, on Buffy. Both were amongst college age individuals. The first time was when Buffy just decided to "go for it" and sleep with a guy on the first date. That turned out badly though since that's all the guy was after. That definitely portrayed it as a bad thing (Buffy was wracked with guilt for "giving it up" to a guy that didn't really care about her). The second time was with Riley. Riley and Buffy were in a committed relationship that went sour because Buffy didn't "need Riley". He wanted to be needed, but since she was so use to protecting everyone, it just didn't work.

Willow and Seth Green's character sex was probably the only relationship that had sex depicted in a positive light, due to the fact that they weren't just sleeping with each other, but were actually in a real relationship. Every other couple, whether underage or not, were always in bad relationships and it was definitely depicted as such.

My point still stands that Buffy is the exception to the rule. In fact, I would say that most of the time, Buffy was the only show that depicted premarital sex in a negative light (Vampire turning evil, Buffy wracked with guilt, getting sucked into an abyss, etc). And again, it's a show about supernatural forces. It's only suppose to relate to real life on a symbolic scale, nothing more. "Don't have sex with that guy, he could turn into an evil vampire" LOL

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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We should rename this the "Sex on TV" thread.

Of course I know depictions of underage people having sex do exist, but I'm tying to get you guys to think past blind rhetoric. Not only are they a small minority of programming, they're certainly not being portrayed in an encouraging manner. The vast majority of the time, TV depicts teenagers who develop one problem or another as a result of sex, or are assholes to start with. And therein lies my point: It is a Hasty Generalization to say that the media is encouraging underaged kids to have sex. If it's a problem at all, it's an exaggerated one ... what any researcher would call a "statistical outlier."

In fact, the vast majority of sex-driven plots on TV, no matter what the age of the characters, revolve around the complications that arise as a result of casual sex. For example, arguably the raciest network show that's currently on the air is Grey's Anatomy. That show practically depicts Musical Bedsheets, yet virtually every one of those characters are screwed up because they keep sleeping around. The one well-adjusted character (Dr. Bailey, the "mom" figure) is the only one who isn't banging some other character.

(For the record, I pretty much hate Grey's Anatomy but because my wife watches it I know way too much about what's going on.)

I could probably come up with fifty examples of sex on TV screwing up the lives of the characters for every one example that can be given of sex being depicted in a healthy light, even among of-age participants. And I have yet to hear any examples of healthy sex being depicted in the lives of minors. If anybody thinks the shallow, vapid lives of the kids on The O.C., Dawson's, or the great-grandaddy of all Teen Steam programming 90210 are role models, then that beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder ... and I ain't beholding it. These shows, the closest examples of what you're getting at (and thankfully cancelled and no longer polluting our airwaves), had very few characters worthy of emulation. I personally never watched the swill because it looked like crap, but that's no matter. They are called "guilty pleasures" for a reason: They are known to be crap and hold little to no redeeming value; people watch them in spite of that, not because of it. It's why people like Pamela Anderson continue to find work.

The great irony in all of this is that those who are most vocal about keeping the government out of private lives are the quickest to call for the government to clean up TV. AND these are the same people who bemoan PBS' existence and wish its death, failing to recognize it for providing the safest, cleanest, most child-friendly programming on TV. Compare PBS to what the commercial networks show during the daytime while toddlers are awake, sick kids are at home, and in the hours immediately after elementary children return home from school. PBS is showing content that is entertaining and educational to the developing mind while the others are showing soap operas, the lowest of casual-sex filled tripe polluting our airwaves.

I'm all for the freedom of choice, as I'm quite capable of choosing what gets watched by my kids and what doesn't. They get a rationing of PBS Sprout and the occasional binge on some classic cartoons with Daddy (Looney Tunes, Pink Panther, classic Disney, etc.) if it doesn't interfere with school or chores. They know Mom and Dad watch "grown-up shows" after bedtime and respect that. And I'll be quite capable of letting them choose what they watch when they help contribute to the household budget. In the mean time, I try to help instill some values in them that will allow them to distinguish between good content and bad content. But if the day arises they can't make appropriate viewing choices while living under my roof, I will have no problems disconnecting the TV altogether.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Sounds like a good plan to me, ADM.

Aside from the NBA playoffs, I only watch one hour of TV a week anyway. I just got sick of all the junk that TV was putting in my head.

As far as the underage sex on TV goes, I think it is easy to generalize it, but that is only because that is how it is treated on television. It seems impossible to deal with the topic adequately for a half-hour episode. The shows can only deal with one or so of the aspects while teens in real life have to deal with all of the consequences, whether it is an unwanted pregnancy, issues of fidelity and commitment, relationships with parents and friends, religious implications, divorce statistics, rape issues and/or sexually transmitted diseases. Instead, television shows usually don't outright promote sexual promiscuity, but they don't go very far to inform or discourage it either. Whether or not one feels like that is their responsibility is another debate all together.
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When the story lines involve people trying to "hook up", they are outright promoting it. Perhaps if the story lines were more along the lines of people just dating and actively showing people resisting pressure, things would be a little different. Or they could just show other problems that teenagers face. Everything is so centered around sex that there really isn't any other story there.

Grey's Anatomy is a perfect example of a show that not only promotes everyone sleeping with everyone else, but they also show just how phoney they really are. Not only do they have subordinates sleeping with direct supervisors (a huge no no for doctors and most other professions), but they have doctors who are so stupid that they don't bother to either 1) use a condom or 2) use the pill. If you're going to sleep with someone and not be ready for the consequences, use some protection (this, for me, only applies to adults, underage people shouldn't be having sex either way). Mind you, I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, these are just some of the things that happened in the first half of the first season. They're also the reason I stopped watching the show. It's no better than a teen angst drama show, it just happens to show adults working in a hospital.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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And on Grey's Anatomy we've seen it lead to divorce, depression, anxiety and even pregnancy. So much for consequence-free.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
And on Grey's Anatomy we've seen it lead to divorce, depression, anxiety and even pregnancy. So much for consequence-free.


Did someone get pregnant and actually keep it? When I stopped watching it, the asian doctor had gotten pregnant and then had an abortion. The message "It's ok to have sex and get pregnant, you can just have an abortion and everything will be fine". The same doctor was even trying to convince a patient to terminate her pregnancy due to some complications and acted like it was no big deal. Did anything else ever come of that?

As for divorce, who else has gotten divorced? Again, when I stopped watching, Patrick Dempsey's character was separated from his wife and I think was getting ready to get a divorce. This, of course, didn't stop Dr. Grey. Nope, even after she found out that they were still married, she continued to pursue the relationship, even though it wasn't in the best interest of all involved.

Again, a lot of what I saw were downright stupid decisions made by apparently very intelligent people. A lot of the decisions were so stupid that I just couldn't handle watching the show anymore.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
And on Grey's Anatomy we've seen it lead to divorce, depression, anxiety and even pregnancy. So much for consequence-free.


Did someone get pregnant and actually keep it? When I stopped watching it, the asian doctor had gotten pregnant and then had an abortion. The message "It's ok to have sex and get pregnant, you can just have an abortion and everything will be fine". The same doctor was even trying to convince a patient to terminate her pregnancy due to some complications and acted like it was no big deal. Did anything else ever come of that?

As for divorce, who else has gotten divorced? Again, when I stopped watching, Patrick Dempsey's character was separated from his wife and I think was getting ready to get a divorce. This, of course, didn't stop Dr. Grey. Nope, even after she found out that they were still married, she continued to pursue the relationship, even though it wasn't in the best interest of all involved.

Again, a lot of what I saw were downright stupid decisions made by apparently very intelligent people. A lot of the decisions were so stupid that I just couldn't handle watching the show anymore.


Okay, I never watch the show and know nothing about it, but there is a female Dr. Grey! So what you are telling me is that evening soap opera my wife foams at the mouth over every week is titled after a womans hoo haw. I mean "Grey's Anatomy" would imply that the whole show is focused on Dr. Grey's parts. Interesting.
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It's a double entendre. "Gray's Anatomy" is a defining textbook on human anatomy from the 1800s.

To answer the other questions:
Izzy apparently had a child when she was a teen and gave it up for adoption. Not aborted. Re-entered her life when a marrow donor was needed.
Dr. Webbers (the dude who was Skinner's boss on the X-files) is going through a divorce because of an affair. Now his 52-year-old soon-to-be-ex is pregnant.
Dr. Grey's dad abandoned her and her mother as a child for another woman. Grey has some serious long-term commitment issues because of this.
Izzy and George got drunk and had sex, causing him massive amounts of guilt for the affair. The plotline has been dragging on for weeks.
McSteamy (Multiple-Man from X3) and Addison tried to go on a sex-hiatus for two months. She challenged him to do this because he's some sort of man-ho. Then she ended up sleeping with somebody else. Thus spelled the end of that relationship.
And Cristina did NOT have an abortion. She wanted one, but then she had an ectopic pregnancy, bursting one of her fallopian tubes. Instant miscarriage, the ever-convenient answer to unwanted pregnancies on TV.

I agree, the people are stupid. Virtually all of their stupidity revolves around sex. But again, this continual game of Musical Bedsheets is FAR FAR FAR from consequence-free.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
It's a double entendre. "Gray's Anatomy" is a defining textbook on human anatomy from the 1800s.


Somewhere, in the back of my mind, I think I knew that, but I forgot I guess. Seeing that my wife is an x-ray tech, I guess I could have asked her. Oh well.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Duke Rape D.A. Disbarred. Strangely, no quotes from Al or Jesse in this story. Catshit must have their tongue.


Yeah, pretty well shows their true nature of not really caring about people. Hopefully, GOD will let them know that all of his children are of all different colors, and not just black.
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Now if only there was a way to get the title 'Reverend' revoked from men like Jackson and Sharpton.

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