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Dom's (Possibly) Useful TROS Edit — Page 4

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 (Edited)

I wonder if we can make “Palpatine just sort of forgets” a full on plot point. He’s old, he should be pretty senile now, right? His memory isnt what it used to be and he can’t quite recall what it is he wants to do. Which is why he starts quoting himself, why his plans for Rey are so inconsistent and can explain away whatever inconsistencies arise from editing to our preferences. I started this post as a joke but now I kind of want to do it.

Dementia Palpatine is the edit we deserve

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NFBisms said:

I wonder if we can make “Palpatine just sort of forgets” a full on plot point. He’s old, he should be pretty senile now, right? His memory isnt what it used to be and he can’t quite recall what it is he wants to do. Which is why he starts quoting himself, why his plans for Rey are so inconsistent and can explain away whatever inconsistencies arise from editing to our preferences. I started this post as a joke but now I kind of want to do it.

Dementia Palpatine is the edit we deserve

NFB you need to make your own bonkers edit that just turns the film into a straight up camp experience.

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 (Edited)

“Did you ever hear the tragedy of … (wonders off)”

Do NOT self-destruct!

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Ewoks die… Palpatine laughs.
Kylo dies… Palpatine laughs.
The Final Order fleet crashes and burns… Palpatine laughs.

heil palpatine.

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 (Edited)

Hey Dom. I really like some of your edit ideas, especially re-inserting “The Speeder Chase” into the movie. I just got my blu-ray copy in the mail a few days ago and decided to give that idea a go myself. Unfortunately the music appears to be mixed into every single audio channel, so isolating sound effects and dialogue is proving almost impossible.

The only real solution I can think of is to fade all the dialogue in and out (hoping there aren’t any musical intrusions) and then rebuild the effects tracks from the ground up using custom sound effects, which is a bit beyond my capacity. Do you have any alternative ideas?

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Thanks for the heads up, but I figured this would be the case. I’ve done it before (my ROTS edit for example), it’s a pain but sometimes it’s worth it. I know they already used some of the track in the scene so it might not be the hardest thing ever.

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It feels odd to go from Kylo on the destroyer to down on the planet with no establishing shots in between.

However, the crawl is a big improvement. The only thing that feels very strange to me is to mention that Leia is ‘ailing’ right before playing up the strength of the Resistance.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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NeverarGreat said:

It feels odd to go from Kylo on the destroyer to down on the planet with no establishing shots in between.

Yes I think an establishing shot would be ideal. My goal here was to try to see if just purely through music and sound design I could make the cut work. At this point I’m now too into it to tell, so feedback like this is valuable.

However, the crawl is a big improvement. The only thing that feels very strange to me is to mention that Leia is ‘ailing’ right before playing up the strength of the Resistance.

The second graph still needs some work, yeah, that’s one of the things. On the one hand it feels weird to even say something like that at all in a crawl, but part of me thinks it’s necessary set up for her out of left field death. Perhaps I can try to work in the word “persevere” or something like that.

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NeverarGreat said:

It feels odd to go from Kylo on the destroyer to down on the planet with no establishing shots in between.

I agree. The technical work is good, but from a storytelling pov this basically just adds another location to the already fairly large list of locations (EXT: Space, INT: Star Destroyer, EXT: Forest, EXT: Ruins, INT: Ship, EXT: Space) being blipped through in about 3 min before Kylo is actually on his way to do what the crawl says he’s doing.

However, the crawl is a big improvement. The only thing that feels very strange to me is to mention that Leia is ‘ailing’ right before playing up the strength of the Resistance.

How about something like this?

The Galaxy is divided. All across the stars,
good people stand for their freedom, and are
cruelly struck down by the tyrannical FIRST ORDER.

GENERAL LEIA ORGANA, her health failing,
sends heroes of THE RESISTANCE
in her stead, recruiting thousands of new
rebels for the ultimate fight.

Meanwhile, SUPREME LEADER KYLO REN searches
for the source of his former master’s dark
power, to win this final war once and for all…

I don’t think that’s THE solution, but maybe there’s an idea or a direction in there that might be useful? Use (or ignore) as needed 😃

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DominicCobb said:

Here’s my opening, showing my new crawl and my version of an idea that’s been tossed around here a bit (using the TLJ deleted star destroyer bridge shots):
https://vimeo.com/403066614

Honestly, I loved the new crawl and opening you cooked up. Only thing I would change is working in more establishing shots of Mustafar as others have already done here. Keep up the great work!

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DominicCobb said:

Here’s my opening, showing my new crawl and my version of an idea that’s been tossed around here a bit (using the TLJ deleted star destroyer bridge shots):
https://vimeo.com/403066614

Oh god, the crawl alone is making me think maybe this movie is salvageable. Love seeing an edit in progress which focuses purely on keeping “Rey is nobody” as well.

reylo?

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DominicCobb said:

The reforging of Kylo’s mask will be interspersed with similar flashing images from Rey’s vision, though clearer flashbacks this time. First we’ll see Kylo killing Han with Luke’s voiceover - “You killed him.” Then Kylo’s saber phasing through Luke with Rey’s voiceover - “You lost.” Then finally Kylo offering his hand to Rey - “Join me” - and her shutting the door on him with her voiceover - “Creature in a mask.” Hopefully giving some motivation for Kylo hiding behind the mask again.

So looking forward to seeing this! Just saying.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Hal 9000 said:

DominicCobb said:

The reforging of Kylo’s mask will be interspersed with similar flashing images from Rey’s vision, though clearer flashbacks this time. First we’ll see Kylo killing Han with Luke’s voiceover - “You killed him.” Then Kylo’s saber phasing through Luke with Rey’s voiceover - “You lost.” Then finally Kylo offering his hand to Rey - “Join me” - and her shutting the door on him with her voiceover - “Creature in a mask.” Hopefully giving some motivation for Kylo hiding behind the mask again.

So looking forward to seeing this! Just saying.

It’s funny you mention it, I’ve been souring to the idea for a bit but I think I found a way to make it work.

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Broom Kid said:

NeverarGreat said:

It feels odd to go from Kylo on the destroyer to down on the planet with no establishing shots in between.

I agree. The technical work is good, but from a storytelling pov this basically just adds another location to the already fairly large list of locations (EXT: Space, INT: Star Destroyer, EXT: Forest, EXT: Ruins, INT: Ship, EXT: Space) being blipped through in about 3 min before Kylo is actually on his way to do what the crawl says he’s doing.

You’re not wrong. I think my urge is to have some sort of lead up to the Mustafar scene. I do think an establishing shot of some sort instead (possibly with TIE flyby) would be preferable.

However, the crawl is a big improvement. The only thing that feels very strange to me is to mention that Leia is ‘ailing’ right before playing up the strength of the Resistance.

How about something like this?

I don’t think that’s THE solution, but maybe there’s an idea or a direction in there that might be useful? Use (or ignore) as needed 😃

That’s not bad, I always appreciate rewrites like this, regardless of what I use they’re helpful to step outside of what I’m stuck with and see alternate angles and maybe fire up some ideas. I’ll play some more with this in mind. I will say I do want some sort of reference to Luke’s actions at the end of the last film, and so having the “spark of hope” line seems to me an elegant way of doing that.

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Yeah, looking at what I wrote, if there’s anything usable it’s less the words (I think yours were better, and you’re right, that Spark of Hope bit needs to stay in there) and more a sense of urgency? Mine’s utility is in that there’s basically a ticking clock that gets started on Leia’s life, the resistance getting enough fighters, and Kylo ending the war on his terms. Functionally, it’s this:

Leia’s doing THIS because of THIS, The trio is doing THIS to stop THIS, and Kylo’s doing THIS to stop THEM.

I think the reason I was advocating just tilting down straight to the TIE jumping into frame from the nebula and cutting EVERYTHING Mustafar earlier in the thread, was because of the key problem any Mustafar edit will have, that you just crystallized for me in your post: Your urge is 100 percent correct that there needs to be some lead into the Mustafar scene. But the problem is there’s simply no footage that puts us on that planet as Kylo arrives.

I read a post at the JWFan boards awhile back (they’ve been piecing together score sheets and doing their own sleuthing as to what the film looked like at various points based on what music Williams wrote and scored) that suggested there WAS a cut of the opening reel at one point that just got rid of EVERYTHING Mustafar, and one of the cues actually lines up PERFECTLY with there being a tilt down to Kylo’s ship jumping into frame. At some point they decided against that cut for some reason, and decided instead to speedrun the Mustafar business as much as possible before sending him to Exogol. And unfortunately, that meant “Cut the landing, cut the establishing shot, cut the oracle, cut the castle, etc.”

Without that, I don’t think there’s any way around the sort of incongruous and weirdly dislocated feeling the opening has. No matter how many times you go at it, the shot you need (Kylo descending to the planet, establishing where he is and where he needs to go) will never exist, and so you can’t cut it together properly. The version in the film is as good as you can get without that shot, I think.

The only real solution to smoothing out the Mustafar sequence is somehow creating, out of footage from TLJ and TFA, and probably completely new VFX shots Adywan style, a shot of Kylo’s ship descending from the star destroyer and going down to the planet. As a pie-in-the-sky example:

TILT DOWN, TIE fighters swoop in. Camera trails fighters, then leaves off and pushes in on Star Destroyer. Kylo’s ship launches from star destroyer, camera - not stopping - picks THAT up and tracks with IT as it heads to the surface. (this is kind of a riff on TLJ’s opening mechanics, really, as well as ESB’s open)

CUT TO: INT of ship, Kylo piloting, sweaty and determined and pouty and greasy and hairy and hot, etc etc.

CUT TO: planet surface, looking up, seeing Kylo’s ship, now joined by two troop carriers, entering the atmosphere.

CUT TO: reverse angle, in the air looking down at the back of the ships landing, ruined castle in the distance, burnt out forest between the two points.

And then at that point you’d just use a wipe to pick up with the movie where it starts on Mustafar with Kylo mid-whoop-ass.

That’s basically the sequence you need to get to Mustafar and make everything else that blips by make sense. But it has to be made out of already used footage and completely new VFX, because Abrams & Co. didn’t give it to us anywhere else.

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Broom Kid said:

I think the reason I was advocating just tilting down straight to the TIE jumping into frame from the nebula and cutting EVERYTHING Mustafar earlier in the thread, was because of the key problem any Mustafar edit will have, that you just crystallized for me in your post: Your urge is 100 percent correct that there needs to be some lead into the Mustafar scene. But the problem is there’s simply no footage that puts us on that planet as Kylo arrives.

I read a post at the JWFan boards awhile back (they’ve been piecing together score sheets and doing their own sleuthing as to what the film looked like at various points based on what music Williams wrote and scored) that suggested there WAS a cut of the opening reel at one point that just got rid of EVERYTHING Mustafar, and one of the cues actually lines up PERFECTLY with there being a tilt down to Kylo’s ship jumping into frame. At some point they decided against that cut for some reason, and decided instead to speedrun the Mustafar business as much as possible before sending him to Exogol. And unfortunately, that meant “Cut the landing, cut the establishing shot, cut the oracle, cut the castle, etc.”

Yeah I saw that too. It’s interesting to consider. I guess my dark secret here is I don’t think the opening as is is so awful that it’s in desperate need of fixing in the way other aspects of the movie are. I can actually see the arguments for why JJ and co. might have left it in.

For example, it does add to the build up to Palpatine’s reveal. His return is a big what the f moment, ideally you pique the interest in the crawl and the next couple of minutes you wonder “what’s he looking for exactly?” before you get the whammy. Actually it’s kind of surprising once they added Palpatine to the crawl that they didn’t do the Exegol beginning. But there were other reasons, I think jumping into a montage, while untraditional for the series, does give a sense of the passage of time, and a suggestion of what Kylo’s been up to. Not to mention showing that there’s a challenge to get to Exegol, considering how much runtime is devoted to our heroes trying to reach it.

That’s not to say I’m not considering starting with Exegol, but it’s not the slam dunk choice for me that it is for some.

…That’s basically the sequence you need to get to Mustafar and make everything else that blips by make sense. But it has to be made out of already used footage and completely new VFX, because Abrams & Co. didn’t give it to us anywhere else.

I get where you’re coming from, but I think there’s probably a middle ground between that and what the film gave us, where you’re still dropping into the battle with some build up (but not making it a whole sequence).

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Anyone here really good at audio editing? Like really really good?

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Not saying I am, but why do you ask?

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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DominicCobb said:

I think there’s probably a middle ground between that and what the film gave us, where you’re still dropping into the battle with some build up (but not making it a whole sequence).

I don’t know, the primary problem with the Mustafar sequence isn’t so much how frenetic it is, it’s the geography. There’s no shot that shows where you are and where he’s going. Whether that shot comes after he’s bodyslammed someone, or before he starts his rampage - the biggest problem with the sequence is that missing shot showing you where he is and what direction he’s trying to go. Abrams & Co. just cut into the bone trying to save this sequence and I think they fundamentally broke it in the process.

If I had any other film to compare it to, I’d say it’s sort of like how the open of Alien 3 became a disconnected montage that also fundamentally breaks itself as it goes. This is probably worse than that, in that almost none of the Mustafar information being imparted is as necessary as Alien 3’s opening is to its movie.

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Hal 9000 said:

Not saying I am, but why do you ask?

Doing a bit of “frankenbiting” with Kylo, putting different words together to make a sentence. My skills only take me so far in terms of making it sound legit.

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Broom Kid said:

DominicCobb said:

I think there’s probably a middle ground between that and what the film gave us, where you’re still dropping into the battle with some build up (but not making it a whole sequence).

I don’t know, the primary problem with the Mustafar sequence isn’t so much how frenetic it is, it’s the geography. There’s no shot that shows where you are and where he’s going. Whether that shot comes after he’s bodyslammed someone, or before he starts his rampage - the biggest problem with the sequence is that missing shot showing you where he is and what direction he’s trying to go. Abrams & Co. just cut into the bone trying to save this sequence and I think they fundamentally broke it in the process.

That’s why I’d say an establishing shot of some sort might help.