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Dom's (Possibly) Useful TROS Edit (WIP) — Page 15

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krausfadr said:

Boolio is an Ovissian. I added it for reasons specific to my edit that I won’t clog up Dom’s thread with.

EDIT: thanks for the feedback maybe it is better removed.

Oh right, because you moved the conference scene to the beginning of the movie. I agree that it’s better removed though, mostly because almost no one would have any clue what an Ovissian is.

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 (Edited)

RogueLeader said:

EDIT: Sorry if I’m being redundant! If you feel like I’m going in the right direction I could try writing an actual crawl based off your most recent one.

No this is good you have some good insights.

Broom Kid said:

Finally the phrase that I want to include that no one else seems to want to is Kylo Ren wanting to “end the cycle of war once and for all.”

Yeah, I rewrote it the way I did there because it’s basically putting key characterization advancement in the crawl, and whether or not I disagree with that particular shading (and I kind of do - at that point in the movie and in your edit, he’s not trying to “end war,” he’s trying to rule unchallenged from his dictator position, and squash all potential enemies) I think it’s kind of a not-great shortcut to his eventual redemption at the end of the movie that gives away the game way too early.

To me, including that sentence isn’t shedding light on his arc, it’s shortcutting it. It’s kind of unfairly altruistic to describe his actions as “ending the cycle of war” at that point, especially if the only reason its being included is to dramatically shorten the jump from “Starts as bad guy, dies as good guy.” For the redemption to carry as much weight as possible, he needs to be bad for the first half of the movie, and read as such the most strongly in the beginning, so his arc actually has an arc to travel. The insinuation that he’s going to turn is made super-clear as it is in the movie already, dedicating crawl-space (ha!) to further hitting that idea feels a little overkill.

Completely disagree. There’s a difference between the goal and its methods. What I’m establishing is 100% in line with his words and actions in TLJ. He wants to end it all (or “let it all die”), but they way he’s doing it is crushing the Resistance. If he wants to end the cycle of war, that’s noble, but obviously if the way he’s going to do it is with a planet killing fleet (which is what I set up in this crawl), that’s not exactly altruistic in any way.

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DominicCobb said:

Completely disagree. There’s a difference between the goal and its methods. What I’m establishing is 100% in line with his words and actions in TLJ. He wants to end it all (or “let it all die”), but they way he’s doing it is crushing the Resistance. If he wants to end the cycle of war, that’s noble, but obviously if the way he’s going to do it is with a planet killing fleet (which is what I set up in this crawl), that’s not exactly altruistic in any way.

But the way you’re phrasing it in the crawl seems to be intentionally tipping the scales. Again, even if we differ philosophically on where he is at the beginning of Rise of Skywalker (and I don’t think we differ that much) the main objection to it that I have is that it’s shortcutting his arc - you’re foreshadowing his turn to the light IN the crawl by making his goals appear nobler than they are through the wording. Yes, there’s a difference between the goal and the methods, I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is that you’re basically prepping audiences to be on the lookout for that change before it’s even really hinted at IN the narrative of the film proper.

Put another way: Yes, as a dictator, he’s looking to end the cycle of war (in his favor, of course), but by phrasing it that way IN the crawl, you’re removing the some of the ambiguity in his mission to end that cycle from the beginning of the film, and it makes his decision to end that cycle of war from a completely different approach at the Death Star ruins later a little flatter, dramatically. I just don’t think you want to tip your hand as to Kylo’s ultimate change-of-heart and redemption IN the crawl. As a dramatic gesture, it’s detracting from his arc, not clarifying it.

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I don’t know what to say except I disagree. If he’s trying to end the cycle of war with the First Order victorious, I don’t see how that’s revealing anything, especially when that’s essentially his stated goal coming off the last movie. It’s just stakes setting and clarifying his motivations, which are otherwise far too obfuscated.

That’s not to say I’m married to the phrase, but any change would need to accomplish the same thing in my mind. Something about bringing a new order to the galaxy or something could work. But anything that casts him as purely megalomaniacal doesn’t do the film or the character any favors.

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 (Edited)

I think it’s the last sentence that pinpoints our disagreement here (which, really, doesn’t matter much since it’s your edit and it only needs to satisfy your tastes, examples of which are proving to be pretty damn impeccable on your vimeo page) - I’m not arguing that you need to cast him as “purely” megalomaniacal, but really that trying to do ANY of his character’s heavy lifting IN the crawl isn’t a great idea. The crawl is basic plot setup - usually the most you get in the way of character description is an adjective, and that adjective is a descriptor that is already really, really obvious. (“Vile gangster, etc…”)

His motivations aren’t obfuscated, really. What’s obfuscated is his willingness to turn to the light, a willingness not really made clear until way later in the movie (for good dramatic reasons, too). That’s done on purpose, because a redemption that’s foreshadowed is a redemption made rote. He needs to, at the least, seem like THE BAD GUY at the beginning of the movie (same way Vader did at the beginning of ROTJ, or alternately, the way Anakin was set up as a very swashbuckling hero at the beginning of ROTS) so the dramatic heft of his reversal and redemption arc is as realized as possible.

Basically, phrasing his goal as something that seems so inherently GOOD as “ending the cycle of war” - a phrase that calls attention to itself as a universally recognized POSITIVE goal, and ascribing it to him specifically is an act that softens the character before he even appears. It’s not even a Kylo specific thing: Any redemption arc in a movie needs to start with that character in a position where redemption seems unlikely. If you’re setting him up before his first scene as someone pursuing a goal as good-sounding as “ending the cycle of war” you’re basically borrowing up-front before the story’s even really started, from the sympathy the audience will be giving him on their own later.

Anyway, that’s why my suggested rewrite took out the phrase. His redemption packs more punch and is better executed if there aren’t any hints at his better nature being referenced in the crawl.

Also, thank you for the time and patience you’re showing in pursuing this line of feedback with me. I know you absolutely don’t have to, you don’t owe it to anyone, especially since I’m not actively helping you with your edit. But I do appreciate the back and forth, and even if the suggestions get rejected, I’m glad you’re still open to hearing them. Thank you!

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My point still stands. I don’t think it’s heavy lifting anything since like I said it was established in TLJ. I don’t think it’s exclusively good because he’s trying to destroy the Resistance. And I think it’s important to end the crawl with because it establishes the stakes (if the cycle of war is ending, who will be the ones on top?). For those reasons it will be part of my crawl.

Regardless, I appreciate you taking the time to think through stuff like this deeply.

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Hmm, wonder how easy it’d be to cut out the “First Order captain’s medallion.”

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

Hmm, wonder how easy it’d be to cut out the “First Order captain’s medallion.”

I think the cleanest way to do it would be to cut out any mention of it on the rooftop, removing it’s significance to Zori, turning her abrupt act of selflessness into just a “hey got this key hanging around, maybe you’ll need it”.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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 (Edited)

I don’t think it would be too hard, so long as the audience doesn’t ask how they were able to casually fly into a Star Destroyer hanger.

It’s already bad enough that they do so using the same ship Kylo saw them escape Pasaana in; either Kylo didn’t tell the FO to look for it, which is weird, or they were allowed in as the world’s worst trap and didn’t tell Kylo about it. I guess Hux could have kept that news from getting to Kylo? But now I’m like three layers deep into it.

Idir_hh might have the right idea. The existence of the medallion solves the above issue by saying “it doesn’t matter what model the ship is, there’s a captain aboard.”

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DominicCobb said:

Hmm, wonder how easy it’d be to cut out the “First Order captain’s medallion.”

Checking the film again, technically seems like it should be pretty easy to do. What you lose is Zorii’s sacrifice, and an explanation for why they’re able to get on the destroyer. Arguably though, losing that Zorii moment makes her showing up at the end a bigger surprise, and as has been said the medallion don’t really makes sense as an explanation anyway (and potentially just adds attention to that fact).

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I just implemented moving Chewie’s reveal to after Rey senses him, and the evil Skype call to where the Chewie reveal used to be. It seems like a very natural set of transitions, story wise and with the A/V.

You hinted at changing dialogue somewhere. I just began the Chewie scene with the blast door opening, skipping the coy and now out of place “so, we uh… found a cool… prisoner” part. I used a stock blast door sound effect to lessen the bleed of the music from the lead up and it seems natural to me.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Where do you have that Chewie scene placed exactly? At the moment it’s not in my cut at all.

The dialogue change I made is in the phone call scene. Kylo says “I know where she’s going” which isn’t true at that point.

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He knows where she’s going because the knights of Ren are tailing her.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Heroes leave Pasaana

Falcon is towed to the Destroyer. Leads into Palpatine and Kylo’s conversation about what kind of game he’s playing and he better watch out, buster.

Heroes regroup on the ship and decide fuck Threepio. They land on Kijimi and meet Frick and decide to do the surgery.

Hux sarcastically asks if Kylo wants them to destroy the city and gets a stern pointing to.

3PO and heroes continue on, Rey senses Chewie is alive, and 3PO wakes back up.

Blast doors open to reveal Chewie. Hux comments, Pryde sends Chewie off.

Kylo heads down to the planet. Things play out from there.

Except that after the heroes leave the Destroyer and Rey has a conversation with Finn about wanting to destroy Palpatine, we go directly to their arrival on Endor/Craft Beer.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

Heroes leave Pasaana

Falcon is towed to the Destroyer. Leads into Palpatine and Kylo’s conversation about what kind of game he’s playing and he better watch out, buster.

Heroes regroup on the ship and decide fuck Threepio. They land on Kijimi and meet Frick and decide to do the surgery.

Hux sarcastically asks if Kylo wants them to destroy the city and gets a stern pointing to.

3PO and heroes continue on, Rey senses Chewie is alive, and 3PO wakes back up.

Blast doors open to reveal Chewie. Hux comments, Pryde sends Chewie off.

Kylo heads down to the planet. Things play out from there.

Except that after the heroes leave the Destroyer and Rey has a conversation with Finn about wanting to destroy Palpatine, we go directly to their arrival on Endor/Craft Beer.

Yes!!!

Been waiting for someone to give details on this! Very nice!

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!

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 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

Heroes leave Pasaana

Falcon is towed to the Destroyer. Leads into Palpatine and Kylo’s conversation about what kind of game he’s playing and he better watch out, buster.

Heroes regroup on the ship and decide fuck Threepio. They land on Kijimi and meet Frick and decide to do the surgery.

Hux sarcastically asks if Kylo wants them to destroy the city and gets a stern pointing to.

3PO and heroes continue on, Rey senses Chewie is alive, and 3PO wakes back up.

Blast doors open to reveal Chewie. Hux comments, Pryde sends Chewie off.

Kylo heads down to the planet. Things play out from there.

Except that after the heroes leave the Destroyer and Rey has a conversation with Finn about wanting to destroy Palpatine, we go directly to their arrival on Endor/Craft Beer.

Oooh, I like that.

By moving that Palpatine-Kylo leash-tug scene to before Kijimi, this means that when Kylo takes his helmet off for Rey in the hanger, he never wears it again. Gives a bit more visual continuity, and I think maybe a bit more agency for Kylo as a character by more quickly abandoning Palpatine, instead of being jerked back right after (but maybe I’m reading into this).

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Neerb said:

Hal 9000 said:

Heroes leave Pasaana

Falcon is towed to the Destroyer. Leads into Palpatine and Kylo’s conversation about what kind of game he’s playing and he better watch out, buster.

Heroes regroup on the ship and decide fuck Threepio. They land on Kijimi and meet Frick and decide to do the surgery.

Hux sarcastically asks if Kylo wants them to destroy the city and gets a stern pointing to.

3PO and heroes continue on, Rey senses Chewie is alive, and 3PO wakes back up.

Blast doors open to reveal Chewie. Hux comments, Pryde sends Chewie off.

Kylo heads down to the planet. Things play out from there.

Except that after the heroes leave the Destroyer and Rey has a conversation with Finn about wanting to destroy Palpatine, we go directly to their arrival on Endor/Craft Beer.

Oooh, I like that.

By moving that Palpatine-Kylo leash-tug scene to before Kijimi, this means that when Kylo takes his helmet off for Rey in the hanger, he never wears it again. Gives a bit more visual continuity, and I think maybe a bit more agency for Kylo as a character by more quickly abandoning Palpatine, instead of being jerked back right after (but maybe I’m reading into this).

Yes I agree. Sort of why I liked that as the solution. I don’t really like Kylo appearing as a lackey again and I think putting that kind of scene after he’s already revealed his plans weakens his agency. Whereas before it’s him kinda being like “yeah yeah okay whatever gramps” then he takes off his helmet and reveals his plans. And then the next time we see Palps he’s promoting Pryde in Kylo’s place.

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@Dominic
Have you considered maybe using some pieces of the Kylo/Vader fan film? Like for eg. You mention in the opening crawl that Kylo Ren is trying to find this Fleet. So it could be some kind of His vision After touching Vaders helmet in which at the end he hears Vaders voice saying Mustafar or something. Then he knows where to go next. It could make His journey longer.

Are you planning to use some different ideas/pieces from other threads like for eg purple lightsaber or shots of Coruscant etc??

BTW, i cant wait to See your work 💪🏽 i m So hyped 😉

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szopman said:

@Dominic
Have you considered maybe using some pieces of the Kylo/Vader fan film? Like for eg. You mention in the opening crawl that Kylo Ren is trying to find this Fleet. So it could be some kind of His vision After touching Vaders helmet in which at the end he hears Vaders voice saying Mustafar or something. Then he knows where to go next. It could make His journey longer.

Are you planning to use some different ideas/pieces from other threads like for eg purple lightsaber or shots of Coruscant etc??

BTW, i cant wait to See your work 💪🏽 i m So hyped 😉

I don’t think there’s really a natural place to use that footage with the way I have the film cut right now.

The purple lightsaber I’m considering. Not entirely sold. If someone could do it in this specific shade of purple I might use it though.

Coruscant for the celebration I’d love to use but I haven’t seen anyone do it yet. I’m also curious about the conference room scene taking place in Coruscant’s orbit but again I don’t think anyone’s done it yet.

As for other things, I’m keeping tabs. I’m not a big fan of the visual Force ghosts but I kind of like the idea of seeing flashes of them in the wide shots only. I do kinda like the idea of Ajan Kloss being Naboo, and I go back and forth about the tank of Palpatine clones.

What with all these people doing VFX shots, I should probably go back and see if I had any crazy ideas I wanted that might be accomplished that way.

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DominicCobb said:

szopman said:

@Dominic
Have you considered maybe using some pieces of the Kylo/Vader fan film? Like for eg. You mention in the opening crawl that Kylo Ren is trying to find this Fleet. So it could be some kind of His vision After touching Vaders helmet in which at the end he hears Vaders voice saying Mustafar or something. Then he knows where to go next. It could make His journey longer.

Are you planning to use some different ideas/pieces from other threads like for eg purple lightsaber or shots of Coruscant etc??

BTW, i cant wait to See your work 💪🏽 i m So hyped 😉

I don’t think there’s really a natural place to use that footage with the way I have the film cut right now.

The purple lightsaber I’m considering. Not entirely sold. If someone could do it in this specific shade of purple I might use it though.

Coruscant for the celebration I’d love to use but I haven’t seen anyone do it yet. I’m also curious about the conference room scene taking place in Coruscant’s orbit but again I don’t think anyone’s done it yet.

As for other things, I’m keeping tabs. I’m not a big fan of the visual Force ghosts but I kind of like the idea of seeing flashes of them in the wide shots only. I do kinda like the idea of Ajan Kloss being Naboo, and I go back and forth about the tank of Palpatine clones.

What with all these people doing VFX shots, I should probably go back and see if I had any crazy ideas I wanted that might be accomplished that way.

Sound Perfect 😉

And what about the kiss? 😀

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Now that I think of it it would be nice if we could figure out some solution(s) to Mustafar. I do have a couple ideas in mind.

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DominicCobb said:

Now that I think of it it would be nice if we could figure out some solution(s) to Mustafar. I do have a couple ideas in mind.

starts to raise hand

looks around

puts hand back down

shuffles backward

exits stage left

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DominicCobb said:

Now that I think of it it would be nice if we could figure out some solution(s) to Mustafar. I do have a couple ideas in mind.

I’ve seen some other people post tests were they added more establishing shots culled from other sources. I think that’s probably your best bet. There is a canon reason why Mustafar looks the way it does in this movie but for someone only tuned into the films it’s a bit confusing.