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Does anyone else here agree with me that TPM is the best of the PT?

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 (Edited)

First of all, TPM I think was kind of the first movie to be the pioneer in integrating CGI in all aspects of filmaking. Before then, most movie productions used CGI in one area of the making of the movie but didn't really incorperate it into all aspects. So even if it wasn't a great movie it was stilll the first movie that intergrated CGI work into every aspect of cinema (which may or may not have been a good thing). But without CGI, we could not have gotten action sequences like in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films or Chris Nolan's Batman films without the help of CGI, because trying to do action sequences like that with all stuntmen, physical gags, and real life sets and models would've been too dangerous, difficult, and expensive. Frankly, I find that some of the greatest action sequences commited to cinema have been the ones that were limited to the boundries of stuntwork and physical gags in the real world, like the action sequneces in Die Hard, Heat, they're smart, engaging, beleivable, and not over the top, like we often see with CGI action work. But without the advancements in CGI it would be impossible to bring comic books to real life movies as engaging as we have seen a lot of over this decade.

Second, I find this movie to have a very epic feel, something I don't feel like episode 2 or 3 pulled off as well. I think part of the reason of that was John Williams score. I thought it was great in this, on par with the OT. His score was not as good in episodes 2 and 3. His score sounded too simple, forced and condesending. It was trying to provoke too much emotion in places where there was too little. Of course he didn't have the greatest material to work with.

They "filmed" this movie with actual "film," which I think helped blend the CGI work in with the real life work making it look more natrual.

I thought Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor made a good duo on screen. A lot better than Obi Wan and Anakin in episodes 2 and 3. I though Liam Neeson's acting was good and Ewan worked well as Neeson's sidekick. I found Liam Neison to be on par with with Alec Guiness in terms of bringing life and spirit to the movie, although I would still say Alec was better. There was actually some good lines of dialog and I found there to be a heart and some intelligence in the dialog and screenplay. The way GL seemed to handle provoking emotion and heart into the actors in the next two films seemed more like he was working with a checklist. Anakin shows he has desires for Padme here: check. Anakin makes an angry face here: check. Anakin shows he is confused here: check. Anaking says he doesn't like sand: check. Anakin says I love you: check. Anakin shows he's torn: check. They have a first kssing scene: check. Anakin shows he's frustrated: check. Palpatine shows a maschivious face: check. And so on...

Seeing Ewan and Liam work together at kicking ass with lightsabers was fun and something we hadn't seen quite anything like before. In episodes 2 and 3 it seem like the action was less engaging and just became tired and tedious.

Sure Jar Jare Binks was rediculous and annoying, but I thought he worked for the picture. I think Lucas deserves more credit than what he has gotten for Jar Jar, he was a risky move and GL had the balls to push him all the way through the film. He kind of plays the side kick role Chewbaca played in star wars or c3po or r2d2 played and adds a good contrast to the film between Qui Gone and Obi Wan. And it's not like the characters were oblivious to the stupidity of him or characters like him like they were in episodes 2 and 3.

I just found even though some of his ideas for the film were radical, at least he tried some originality and I think some things worked. In episodes 2 and 3 it just seemd like he was just going through the book of cliche plot devices to bridge his story from the PT to the OT. TPM almost seems like the movie Disney would make if they bought the rights to Star Wars, so as a Disney Star Wars movie I would give it a 10/10, but since I prefer a realer, darker, gritter, tone like the OT, I would give it 6/10, which is above what I would give episodes 2 and 3, obviously.

Something I notice is PT lovers seem to dislike (or like the least) TPM the most of the PT and their excuse is usually Jar Jar Binks and Jake Lloyd's wooden performance. But I think smarter film veiwers (like us OT fans) find TPM to actually be the smartest of the PT and the best. Because Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd were just two characters who were not the center of the story. For all the reasons I stated above the film is smarter than the next two. And I prefer Jake Lloyd's performance to awful Hayden Christensen and Hayden was the center character of the next two films.

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I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again.  TPm had the "magic feeling" of Star Wars, that the others in the PT lacked.  It FELT like a Star Wars movie.  We were in a Galaxy Far Far Away once again, foreign to us yet also familiar.  The acting is amazing compared to the crapfest of Episode Two, and the "Duel of the Fates" kills "the Battle of the Heroes" in episode 3.

Something about that one was entertaining... I know people who fell asleep in the others.  I know at least TPM could keep MY attention.  ROTS I'd rather not sit through.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I agree.

 

TPM, aside from introducing the Medichlorines and the immaculate conception bit, did not yet completely destroy the Star Wars Story that Revenge of the shit did.

 

the beginning of the relationship between anakin and padme wasn't as bad as it was in the next two films, even though it was still pretty unbelievable

 

If they would just:

cut out the medichlorines and the immaculate conception

and make anakin the same age as padme, it would be a pretty good film and a believable precurser to the OT.

 

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 (Edited)

I decided way back to no longer look at the films from a best/worst viewpoint. I now look at them on the whole. That said, there are things about each movie that I dislike and things I like. So I've decided to leave it at that.

I think the reason Ep1 feels more like a Star Wars film is simply because they are on Tatooine for a good portion of the film.

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The best reason why episode 1 is the best of the prequel trilogy is not in terms of content, But that it was actually shot on 35mm motion picture film.

This is why 2 and 3 look like a videogame, LOL. 

 

But did'nt you know digital is better you will say as Lucas has hoodwinked all those tfn gushers into believing the myth and drinking the cool aide.

He tried to sell all of us star wars fans a pig in a poke with the prequels.  We should not have gotten fooled again but we did, we hoped Indiana Jones IV would'nt suffer the same fate.  Well at least Spielberg shot it on film good decision and only good on the entire movie.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

The best reason why episode 1 is the best of the prequel trilogy is not in terms of content, But that it was actually shot on 35mm motion picture film.

 

I am so sick of reading this crap.  It doesn't matter what medium a movie is shot on.  Did you ever think for one moment that maybe they liked it better because of its content?  It doesn't matter if a movie is shot 100% digitally or not.  It's the story that counts and the above posters find the story of TPM (aside from midichlorians and the virgin birth) to be the best of the 3.  It has NOTHING to do with it being shot on 35mm.

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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lordjedi said:

skyjedi2005 said:

The best reason why episode 1 is the best of the prequel trilogy is not in terms of content, But that it was actually shot on 35mm motion picture film.

 

I am so sick of reading this crap.  It doesn't matter what medium a movie is shot on.  Did you ever think for one moment that maybe they liked it better because of its content?  It doesn't matter if a movie is shot 100% digitally or not.  It's the story that counts and the above posters find the story of TPM (aside from midichlorians and the virgin birth) to be the best of the 3.  It has NOTHING to do with it being shot on 35mm.

 Lordjedi, I gotta respectfully disagree.  Episode II & III look like videogames, whereas Episode I has many scenes shot on real sets and real locations, so it is the one PT movie that actually clicks with the OT in terms of the visuals.  I understand what your saying about the story, and I do agree that story and characters are #1 & #2 when it comes to movies for me, but real sets and locations, IMO, can help a movie. 

Look at The Dark Knight, it has a great story, really good character development, but what makes it that much better is there isn't any CGI in it, or very little.  Christopher Nolan says in the HBO featurette, "I try to keep everything as real as possible, as I don't like using CGI."  So to me the 5 things that will make a great movie:  Story, Characters, Drama, No CGI, Score.

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But what does that have to do with the media that's used to shoot the movie?  Whether it was shot with high end digital cameras or 35mm, if there's no CGI in it, that doesn't change anything except the media that's used.  Sure, you'll get a higher definition (and the grain) out of the 35mm, but that's about it.

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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lordjedi said:

But what does that have to do with the media that's used to shoot the movie?  Whether it was shot with high end digital cameras or 35mm, if there's no CGI in it, that doesn't change anything except the media that's used.  Sure, you'll get a higher definition (and the grain) out of the 35mm, but that's about it.

 

Some people are just stuck in the past and don't want to move with the times.

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lordjedi said:

skyjedi2005 said:

The best reason why episode 1 is the best of the prequel trilogy is not in terms of content, But that it was actually shot on 35mm motion picture film.

 

I am so sick of reading this crap. It doesn't matter what medium a movie is shot on. Did you ever think for one moment that maybe they liked it better because of its content? It doesn't matter if a movie is shot 100% digitally or not. It's the story that counts and the above posters find the story of TPM (aside from midichlorians and the virgin birth) to be the best of the 3. It has NOTHING to do with it being shot on 35mm.

 

Did you actually read the original post? Hint:

Janskeet said:

They "filmed" this movie with actual "film," which I think helped blend the CGI work in with the real life work making it look more natrual.

 

Films are a visual medium. The way they look says something about what they are.

TPM looks like film. AOTC and ROTS look like Halo--and I never forgot that for one second while watching them.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY

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I disliked TPM in many ways but then years later nostalgia set in, I watched it again with a less critical eye and actually enjoyed it.  I agree that it had a realness to it the other two movies don't have (which is funny to me as at the time, TPM struck me as having too much CGI...boy did Luca$ prove me wrong on that one!).

ROTS was not that bad to me and I enjoyed most of it from day one.  I can still watch it here and there and enjoy it.

Now AOTC is another story entirely, I H A T E that movie and always will, and I feel that it is the least SW-like out of all three PT films.   I can't sit through the entire movie and when I saw it in the theatre on opening day, I was so bored that I walked out about halfway through to stretch my legs and didn't rush to come back...that says an awful lot coming from an SW fan like me!

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It's difficult to say. The good parts of Ep. I are better than those of II-III, but the bad parts of Ep. I are worse than those of II-III. The overall plot is more mature, but the execution is less.

Overall, I have to say no. The bad parts are so bad that I cannot overlook them, thus relegating TPM to the position of my absolute least favourite SW movie. But I do see what you mean, and it's definitely a hard question to answer. Which of these three excrament sandwiches do you prefer? Ultimately, I'd rather have a sandwich that wasn't made of excrament in the first place. ;)

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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Akwat Kbrana said:

It's difficult to say. The good parts of Ep. I are better than those of II-III, but the bad parts of Ep. I are worse than those of II-III. The overall plot is more mature, but the execution is less.

Overall, I have to say no. The bad parts are so bad that I cannot overlook them, thus relegating TPM to the position of my absolute least favourite SW movie. But I do see what you mean, and it's definitely a hard question to answer. Which of these three excrament sandwiches do you prefer? Ultimately, I'd rather have a sandwich that wasn't made of excrament in the first place. ;)

What parts of the movie did you think were the bad parts? My guess would be when Jake Lloyd opens his mouth, Jar Jar Binks goofing off, and Gungans, am I correct?

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 (Edited)

Ditto on what Akwat Kbrana said.

 

One of the reasons that Episode II fails so bad for me is that it was supposed to be the prequel counterpart of the Empire Strikes Back.  The last time I watched Episode II years ago, all I could think of was how much better they did it in Empire.  The romance, the asteroid chase, the ground battles with the walkers, etc.

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I have to say, what ruins TPM for me is the fart humor.

I dislike all the prequels equally, but each for different reasons. George is very good at handling the big picture in Star Wars, but when it comes to the details (dialog, character motivation, humor), he blows it.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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This is something I've argued quite a few times. To start, the story is better in Phantom Menace, the acting is acceptable (overall), the music is the best of PT, and the flow/pacing of the film actually works (in a hyperactive, sugary way). After that, it starts getting more complicated.

I can totally understand why some people hate this movie. First, likable characters are perhaps the most important facet of any good movie and while Obiwan and Qui-gon were likable, the rest of the characters were pretty hollow and Jar Jar is downright obnoxious. Second, the film is filled with a lot of childish humor and condescendingly small presentations. All in all, we're left with a film that could potentially be very juvenile and obnoxious. I think one of the reasons I can enjoy Phantom Menace is because I'm able to not let those things bother me: I can generally ignore them just fine and even chuckle if I'm in the right mood.

To finish, I'll just say that this movie works with George Lucas' strengths. It doesn't deal with emotion very much, its fast paced and uncomplicated with its ideas, and its fairly epic in the way it pits good versus evil. While the film ignores and ruins many, key, Star-Wars concepts (and therefore I can't really call it a good "Star Wars" film), it still captures that Star Wars feel (better than any of the prequels did) and I like that a lot. In the end, I'll say its a movie that's good in its own weird way.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I think that TPM is the best of the bunch, having said that all's  Lucas needs to do is tag an animated version of Anakin's turn to the dark side onto the end of the new clone wars series and I wouldn't need to watch a prequel ever again.

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Janskeet said:

Akwat Kbrana said:

It's difficult to say. The good parts of Ep. I are better than those of II-III, but the bad parts of Ep. I are worse than those of II-III. The overall plot is more mature, but the execution is less.

Overall, I have to say no. The bad parts are so bad that I cannot overlook them, thus relegating TPM to the position of my absolute least favourite SW movie. But I do see what you mean, and it's definitely a hard question to answer. Which of these three excrament sandwiches do you prefer? Ultimately, I'd rather have a sandwich that wasn't made of excrament in the first place. ;)

What parts of the movie did you think were the bad parts? My guess would be when Jake Lloyd opens his mouth, Jar Jar Binks goofing off, and Gungans, am I correct?

 

Yeah, for the most part. Here's a (rough) list for ya:

 

Critically stupid:

  • Any and all Gungans (but especially Jar-Jar)
  • Jake Lloyd's "acting"
  • Just about everything that has to do with Anakin, specifically the notion of a nine-year-old winning the space battle. Especially since it was all by accident. It's also remarkably stupid that Anakin built 3p0.
  • Poop and fart jokes
  • The Neimodians
  • Occasional bad dialogue (especially between Anakin and Padme)
  • Unnecessary (and incredibly cringe-inducing) pomp & circumstance in introducing OT characters. (R2's congratulations scene, the 3p0 & R2 introduction scene, etc.)
  • Watto, Sebulba, pretty much all the cartoon characters that pop up in TPM (though, to be fair, Ep. II-III also suffer from this problem rather chronically)
  • The Virgin Birth
  • Midichlorians (carries over in ROTS as well, I know, but only in passing)

 

Less-Critically Stupid:

  • Going through the planet core (which is a dumb concept to begin with...then, we never actually see them go through the core anyway)
  • The podrace sequence (I know a lot of people liked it, but I just find it incredibly boring)
  • The battle-droids' cutesy personalities (admittedly, this showed up in ROTS again as well)
  • The people of Naboo are referred to collectively as "The Naboo."
  • Contradictions with the OT really piss me off. Anakin isn't even old enough to be a "great pilot" (instead, he just accidentally blows stuff up and saves the day), Yoda isn't Obi-Wan's Jedi Master, etc.

Like I said, I certainly agree that the feel of the movie is more in line with the OT, it's just that the truly horrendous moments ruin the movie and utterly shatter suspension of disbelief. That being said, I do definitely prefer the score of TPM over Ep. II-III...

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