Doctors not seeing kids withot vaccinations

Author: TheBoost
Date: 7-Mar-2011, 3:16 PM

Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:16 PM (Edited)
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More docs are refusing to treat kids who aren't vaccinated.

I deeply feel for those children, but it seems to me that their parents are to blame for any harm that comes to them.

There is no legitamate science connecting vaccines to autism, and the closest thing that the Anti-vaccine movmeent had to a study is now recognized as not only bad science but blatant fraud, but that doesn't change the minds of crazy people, especially in a world where a woman like Oprah can expose millions of minds to unchallenged nonsense everyday.

In the words of the doctor in the article who says he's NOT refusing to see kids:

"I'm begging to treat the patients," he says, "but the parents are refusing to let me."

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:21 PM
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I'm trying to figure out who "Dr. S" is.

Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:39 PM
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TV's Frink said:

I'm trying to figure out who "Dr. S" is.

Fixed. :-P

Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:57 PM
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I'm with the doctors. Not vaccinating your children does not affect only your child, it affects every child yours comes into contact with. Areas with high rates of non-vaccinated children also show significantly higher rates of diseases like measles among young people.

I have no sympathy for any parent who doesn't vaccinate their child. I feel terrible for the children, since it's not their choice, but any parent dumb enough to fall onto the "Vaccines cause autism!" bullshit bandwagon deserves to be shunned by their doctors.

Author: doubleofive
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:57 PM
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While I think that vaccines are fine, I'm not sure where I fall on this particular issue.

Would I fix someone's computer who doesn't use freely available antivirus? Sure I would, but I would install antivirus for them before I gave it back.

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Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 3:59 PM
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doubleofive said:

While I think that vaccines are fine, I'm not sure where I fall on this particular issue.

Would I fix someone's computer who doesn't use freely available antivirus? Sure I would, but I would install antivirus for them before I gave it back.

But if they insisted that antivirus NOT be installed?

Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 4:25 PM
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Antivirus ≠ vaccines

You can not have an antivirus program, but be careful about your web browsing, and never get a virus.

It's quite another thing to not get vaccinated, then try to "be careful" that you never get sick.

Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 4:44 PM
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ChainsawAsh said:

Antivirus ≠ vaccines

You can not have an antivirus program, but be careful about your web browsing, and never get a virus.

It's quite another thing to not get vaccinated, then try to "be careful" that you never get sick.

Good points.

Author: doubleofive
Time: 7-Mar-2011 5:04 PM
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TheBoost said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Antivirus ? vaccines

You can not have an antivirus program, but be careful about your web browsing, and never get a virus.

It's quite another thing to not get vaccinated, then try to "be careful" that you never get sick.

Good points.

True, it's not a perfect analogy. Of course, if someone insisted on not having antivirus, I'd leave it to them because theyre only hurting themselves. Kids are a different story.

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Author: TV's Frink
Time: 7-Mar-2011 5:07 PM (Edited)
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Ok, I figured out who Dr. S is, but why would kids need an originaltrilogy vaccination?

Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 5:12 PM
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TV's Frink said:

Ok, I figured out who Dr. S is, but why would kids need an originaltrilogy vaccination?

You're dead to me.

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 7-Mar-2011 5:13 PM
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Without my ot vaccination I might as well be.

Author: twister111
Time: 7-Mar-2011 6:26 PM
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Kay fine want to say your refusing to see patients due to variables beyond their control. Fine go ahead but, this:

TheBoost said:

In the words of the doctor in the article who says he's NOT refusing to see kids:

"I'm begging to treat the patients," he says, "but the parents are refusing to let me."

Bullshit they are refusing to see patients becuase, they don't want their kid to have a vaccine. If the doctors have a right to refuse treatment based on whether or, not a kid has had a vaccine. The Parents should reserve the right to choose to have their kid vaccinated in the first place. To allow one but, not the other is hypocritical. Since either way the kid is the one being screwed over and, NO ONE cares to let the kids decide.
So to doctors refusing to treat patients over something they might not even have. You're just as bad as those parents. I mean what if a kid ends up dieing due to something completely unrealated to vaccines becuase, you and other doctors refused to treat? Turning the situation into days of doctor shopping is just as bad. So to try to put yourself on some moral high-horse stating "I'm begging to treat" is bullshit. If you're begging to treat you wouldn't give a damn about if the kid was vaccinated or, not. Hell you wouldn't even care if you got paid. So shut up about this "begging" crap becuase, you're just sounding like a spoiled kid refusing to do their job becuase, everything's not your way. If you don't think so, you misunderstand the meaning behind "begging". What their really "begging" for is the parents to get their kids vaccinated. Subsequently refusing treatment becuase, theirs pleas aren't being fullfilled.

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Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 7:22 PM (Edited)
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twister111 said:

The Parents should reserve the right to choose to have their kid vaccinated in the first place.

No, they really shouldn't. Vaccinations should be mandatory for everyone.

--edit--

Also, while I couldn't understand most of your post due to how incoherent it was, you seem to have misinterpreted the doctor's quote.

"I'm begging to treat the patients, but the parents are refusing to let me." The doctor saying this IS NOT refusing to treat unvaccinated children.

What he's saying is, he's begging the parents to let him vaccinate their children, but they're refusing to allow it.

Author: Warbler
Time: 7-Mar-2011 8:05 PM
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I give you my take on this, doctors should never, ever refuse to treat a patient. EVER. I say doctors have duty to treat all patients. Whether or not they chose to get vaccinated is irrelevant.

Also, why punish the kid for to stupidity of the parent? I could understand refusing to treat an adult patient that refuses an adult vaccination. But why refuse to treat a child? The child has no say over whether or not they get vaccinated, it all up to the parents.

Author: Ziggy Stardust
Time: 7-Mar-2011 8:57 PM
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Warbler said:

I give you my take on this, doctors should never, ever refuse to treat a patient. EVER. I say doctors have duty to treat all patients. Whether or not they chose to get vaccinated is irrelevant.

Also, why punish the kid for to stupidity of the parent? I could understand refusing to treat an adult patient that refuses an adult vaccination. But why refuse to treat a child? The child has no say over whether or not they get vaccinated, it all up to the parents.

Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 9:49 PM
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Warbler said:

I give you my take on this, doctors should never, ever refuse to treat a patient. EVER. I say doctors have duty to treat all patients. Whether or not they chose to get vaccinated is irrelevant.

Also, why punish the kid for to stupidity of the parent? I could understand refusing to treat an adult patient that refuses an adult vaccination. But why refuse to treat a child? The child has no say over whether or not they get vaccinated, it all up to the parents.

I think the doctor makes a good point that he also has to be concerned about the well-being of his other patients, many of whom would be children not yet complete with their own vaccination series.

I'd be unhappy if my son was exposed to pertussis because some asshole had their unvaccinated kid in the same waiting room. I know for a fact at school my kid is safe among other vaccinated kids.

Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 10:00 PM
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TheBoost said:

Warbler said:

I give you my take on this, doctors should never, ever refuse to treat a patient. EVER. I say doctors have duty to treat all patients. Whether or not they chose to get vaccinated is irrelevant.

Also, why punish the kid for to stupidity of the parent? I could understand refusing to treat an adult patient that refuses an adult vaccination. But why refuse to treat a child? The child has no say over whether or not they get vaccinated, it all up to the parents.

I think the doctor makes a good point that he also has to be concerned about the well-being of his other patients, many of whom would be children not yet complete with their own vaccination series.

I'd be unhappy if my son was exposed to pertussis because some asshole had their unvaccinated kid in the same waiting room. I know for a fact at school my kid is safe among other vaccinated kids.

This is exactly why I support the doctors in this situation.

Author: vbangle
Time: 7-Mar-2011 10:04 PM
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How are patients who have been vaccinated in danger from patients who haven't been vaccinated? That doesn't make any sense.

Having been vaccinated you are immune to the diesase. Duh.

People need to pull their head out of their ass once in a while and think.

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Author: TheBoost
Time: 7-Mar-2011 10:13 PM
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vbangle said:

How are patients who have been vaccinated in danger from patients who haven't been vaccinated? That doesn't make any sense.

Having been vaccinated you are immune to the diesase. Duh.

People need to pull their head out of their ass once in a while and think.

Since the doctor being quoted is a pediatrician, many of his patients will be children partway through a vaccination series.It makes perfect since that an unvaccinated child, perhaps a carrier, would pose a risk to these children. Duh.

You're plainly stupid.

Author: bkev
Time: 7-Mar-2011 10:23 PM (Edited)
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I would've thought the same as VBangle if not corrected, to be fair...

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Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 10:35 PM
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Yeah, TheBoost hit the nail on the head. That's exactly why.

Author: Warbler
Time: 7-Mar-2011 11:20 PM
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I agree with keeping unvaccinated kids away from those who are not complete with vaccinations, to not treat said children? Are you ready to let a child die because the parents were too stupid to get the kid vaccinated? Please remember it is not the child's fault.

Author: twister111
Time: 7-Mar-2011 11:22 PM
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ChainsawAsh said:

twister111 said:

The Parents should reserve the right to choose to have their kid vaccinated in the first place.

No, they really shouldn't. Vaccinations should be mandatory for everyone.

That part REALLY NEEDS FULL CONTEXT!!!

If the doctors have a right to refuse treatment based on whether or, not a kid has had a vaccine. The Parents should reserve the right to choose to have their kid vaccinated in the first place.

To be in support of doctors not giving treatment to a patient for a variable far beyond the patients control is just as bad as what the parents are doing to the kids.

So, if one is allowed might as well allow the other. Either way the kid looses.

ChainsawAsh said:

--edit--

Also, while I couldn't understand most of your post due to how incoherent it was, you seem to have misinterpreted the doctor's quote.

"I'm begging to treat the patients, but the parents are refusing to let me." The doctor saying this IS NOT refusing to treat unvaccinated children.

What he's saying is, he's begging the parents to let him vaccinate their children, but they're refusing to allow it.

But that's not what the doctors appointment is for. From what I can gather from the article these type of people wouldn't make vaccination appointments in the first place. So obviously their bringing their kid in becuase, they got something else wrong with them. Most likely completely unrealated to vaccines. Yet, this part of the article suggest:

Samuel Katz, MD, of Duke University, says it's not right to refuse seeing a child "because it is the parent who is the problem, whereas the child merits medical care."

That they get turned away becuase of vaccination prefrence. Further, they'll be in the waiting rooms reguardless. Unless they ask over the phone "Is your kid vaccinated?" The other kids are going to be at risk of an unvaccinated kid waiting for treatment that their not going to get becuase, the doctor and, the parent have a disagreement about vaccines.

Finally, if what I mean still isn't clear. Imagine you have a 1 bathroom on the second floor. It gets a problem and, you call the plumber. The plumber gets there and, refuses service becuase, it's on the second floor. He thinks all bathrooms should be on the 1st floor because, it's easier for the physically disabled. He offers an alternative. create a bathroom on the 1st floor for the physically disabled and, he'll fix your 2nd floor bathroom after. Now you didn't design the house, you don't have the money/time for another bathroom build. You don't even have space on the first floor. Further it's against your current HOA laws to do the bathroom the plumber wants. Mabye in a few years your HOA rules'll change or, you'll go out and, choose a house with a better bathroom. But right now you just need your 2nd floor bathroom fixed and, the plumber's refusing because, you don't have another bathroom for the physically disabled.

In the above the plumber's the doctor. You're the kid. The 1st bath is the current illness you have. The vaccination is the physically disabled bathroom. Everything else preventing you from putting the 2nd bath in is the parents.

In short it's COMPLETELY out the kids control whether or, not they're vaccinated. So all this does is further harm children needing medical attention for something. They're getting punished for something they have ZERO control over.

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Author: ChainsawAsh
Time: 7-Mar-2011 11:24 PM (Edited)
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Warbler said:

I agree with keeping unvaccinated kids away from those who are not complete with vaccinations, to not treat said children? Are you ready to let a child die because the parents were too stupid to get the kid vaccinated? Please remember it is not the child's fault.

I think they won't have a problem finding a doctor who will treat their child, and the fact that the first doctor refused said treatment due to the vaccination issue might make them realize how big a mistake it was to not vaccinate them. They might reconsider and vaccinate their child because of this.