The mods are monitoring that situation, and if our willingness to give someone the benefit of a doubt is ill founded, some phone calls will be made.
Back to all things Whovian.
Where were you in '77?
Where were you in '77?
Watched another Patrick Troughton show, this time the four-parter 'The Krotons'.
The Doctor, Zoe and Jamie arrive on a desolate planet and by their mere presence they disrupt a civilisation that has existed for a 1000 years. The Gonds (A humanoid) people are ruled over by The Krotons who feed The Gonds their knowledge of Science and Mathematics but only the parts The Krotons want them to know. So chemistry isn't on the cariculum because it can be used to make bombs or gunpowder for guns, that The Gonds might use against them. It's the Apartheid problem being addressed again and The Krotons themselves are supposed to have South-African accents (I thought it sounded more brummie or midlands though).
The script is brilliantly constructed with Jamie and Zoe integral to the plot (Unlike most companions) and helping The Doctor succeed. The learning computer scene felt very remeniscent of the Vulcan test Spock undergoes in ST3 and there is even some hand animated visuals to simulate the advanced computers (Very cool stuff). Troughton is also on top form with him mucking about with The Krotons headsets and dancing across the planet's rocky landscape with a umbrella like Gene Kelly.
When the Doctor and Joe get subjected to the Dynotrope machine in episode 2, it got very trippy, almost like an out-take from Eraserhead. It was nice to see Phillip Madoc playing the "villain" again as he was one the best things about the 2nd Cushing movie.
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It's a shame Madoc can't be called upon to be a villain any more due to lack of life.
Maybe they can make a digital Madoc for future stories.
Is there a fanon explanation for why all the baddies in the Whoniverse look like Ruth's ex?
Of the three Doctors I'm familiar with, the Second is my favorite.
Watched the very short 2-parter 'The Awakening' from the Peter Davison era. I do love the world-weary chemistry of the Turlough, Tegan and Davison trio so I was looking forward to this but sadly it was all a little meh.
The 50 minute running time leaves precious little time to develop the characters who were really promising and even short changes the setup. A shame because it was a great basic concept, of the Doctor and Co trapped in an otherwise sleepy English village recreating the English Civil War, very, VERY seriously. I honestly don't really know what the Malus was, or why, or when, or how, or how it's plan worked? etc etc (But it looked cool).
It never felt like our heroes were ever in much danger as a couple of the villagers themselves, openly voice their decent of the nominal baddie's plans without any reprisals. For the most part they are wondering round the village playing along with the jolly war games. Come to think of it (Leaving the very final showdown aside) I don't think a single person died in it? Surely some kind of unique feat of tensionless writing, in the history of the usually body-count-high classic era of the show.
A final postive note. Eric Pringle's location direction was fantastic.
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^I love that story, in fact it was one of the few from that period (still stinging as I was from Tom leaving and the loss of the Delia theme tune) I remember liking at the time of broadcast. It has a real Sapphire & Steel vibe to and that puppet is freakish.
At the end of the story the Tardis almost has a Star Trek bridge compliment.
It would be fun to have had a season with five or six companions of various ages, time periods, genders and species all knocking about that old gas oven with young/old Pete trying to keep them all together.
I doubt if anyone would dare do that now.
Still Big Finish could pull it off.
Watched the new Blu Ray of Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger over the weekend. I can't help but think Patrick Troughton's Greek wiseman Melanthius is actually the second Doctor in disguise, with a previously unknown female companion posing as his daughter. :)
Where were you in '77?
You should track down The Box Of Delights if you haven't already and watch it at Christmas.
I'll have to look for that.
I thought these Dalek posters were amusing...
http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/daleks-invade-mashup-posters.html
Where were you in '77?
I just finished watching a William Hartnell serial, which I've seen very few of (Unearthly Child and maybe one or two others) called 'The Gunfighters'. It's mentioned on the DVD extras, that this got some of the lowest Audience Appreciation Scores in the history of the program. It isn't that bad but it's not great either.
The main problem is that it's just feels like a typical dated Cowboy TV show with The Doctor and Co playing little or no part in the preceedings beyond the most superficial level. I think you could almost edit the Doctor out of the whole thing and still have the story intact.
The wild-west accents range from passable to just plain terrible (Let's just do Cockney with "I reckon" at the end of every sentence LOL). Ironicly Peter Purves' accent which is supposed to be bad, is actually better than most of the rest of the cast can do. But the worst thing is the constant use of this annoying vocal narration song every 30 seconds.
On the plus side, William Hartnell as a Cowboy, dressed nearly all in black with the hat, gunbelt and sheriff's badge looked badass. The direction is pretty good with all the classic Western camera angles being deployed. The set and costumes are really excellent and I did enjoy Anthony Jacobs' turn as the duplicitous Doc Holliday.
Next Hatnell adventure on my itinerary... 'The Keys of Marinus' (I hope it's better).
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Keys Of Marinus for me felt like a very long journey.
I'd treat each location as a separate but related adventure and give yourself a break between.
Seen as a connected mini arc it works better than trying to sit through the whole thing in one go.
I prefer the shorter Hartnell stories like The Sensorites, The Romans or The Aztecs myself (though The Ark has one lovely little bridge section).
Part of me is sort of glad I don't have to sit through The Daleks' Masterplan due to BBC incompetence.
The Gunfighters was one of the worst things I've ever sat through. This is coming from someone who enjoys watching the Star Wars Holiday Special! Their accents are TERRIBLE and THAT STUPID SONG NEVER STOPS!!!!! Not to mention they couldn't even be bothered to be historically accurate. So much for being somewhat educational.
The Keys of Marinus was a bit of a drag. I'd recommend something like The Chase or The Tenth Planet over it.
The Daleks' Master Plan was pretty epic from what I recall.
I don't think a lot of Westerns have been made in the UK. From what I've seen, bad American accents are nothing new in British television though. ;)
When The Prisoner did a western themed episode, any oddities could be chalked up to usual premise of screwing with Number 6's head.
Where were you in '77?
Perhaps maybe they should have tried to find some American actors for 'The Gunfighters'?
Maybe they were in short supply where the Beeb was concerned?
Where were you in '77?
Warbler said:
Perhaps maybe they should have tried to find some American actors for 'The Gunfighters'?
This is the problem with viewing older shows from modern eyes.
Doctor Who never had a problem finding actors of African ancestry because of the influx of West Indian people into the country around the time. Similarly finding actors originating from the Indian subcontinent was also not that difficult.
It became a bit of a stretch casting lots of actors from the Orient.
So while a genuine oriental actors where cast in Mind of Evil when it came to The Talons of Weng-Chiang (which is practically banned in some countries) or Marco Polo the available actors had to be supplemented with white actors in yellow face.
You can only use Burt Kwouk so many times (though it didn't seem to be a problem with Philip Madoc).
The cost of flying an actor from one place to another for a minor role was too prohibitive at that time. Until the 80s flying was still a luxury beyond the reach of most people.
There were a handful of North American actors (some of them blacklisted) who were living in Britain and they tended to turn up over and over again in BBC and ITC productions.
Yeah there were not a whole lot of American actors in the UK at the time. if anything UK actors were going to Hollywood not the other way around. At any rate the whole story is so goofy I think the British actors pretending to be Americans fits right in and adds to the charm. It is one of my favorite stories for all the wrong reasons.
One things that I will say in favor of The Gunfighters is that the main cast seems to be having a good time making it and that gives the story a lighthearted feel that I enjoy.
Oh and by the way,is it fall yet? I want to see the 12th Doctor on screen for more then thirty seconds.
Fall?
Dr Zaius' Fall of the New Roman Empire?
Fall of Arcadia?
The Fall of the House of Usher?
?
The new season of Doctor Who doesn't start until this fall and the wait is killing me. I hate this period where we have gotten a peek at the new Doctor but then we have to wait for month and months to see him in action.
Bingowings said:
Doctor Who never had a problem finding actors of African ancestry because of the influx of West Indian people into the country around the time. Similarly finding actors originating from the Indian subcontinent was also not that difficult.
It became a bit of a stretch casting lots of actors from the Orient.
So while a genuine oriental actors where cast in Mind of Evil when it came to The Talons of Weng-Chiang (which is practically banned in some countries) or Marco Polo the available actors had to be supplemented with white actors in yellow face.
One of the Doctor Who DVDs I watched recently (The Mutants) had an interesting documentary (Narrated by Noel Clarke aka Mickey) called 'Race Against - Time' (LOL) that looked into percieved "rascist" casting on Doctor Who during the 70s. While early 60s Who had colour-blind casting of roles (And great roles for women too for that matter) it also would cast white actors in yellow and brown face on rare occasions during the 1970s. Such as the examples you give and Cho-Je from 'Planet of the Spiders' comes to mind too...
The writers and producers interviewed said there weren't any actors easily available but I find that a bit hard to believe (And many of those interviewed found it hard to believe too). But given the progressive politics of the Who creative team during the 70s, it's inconceivable that it was done with any ill will. It was just a different time as you say, now of course, you wouldn't dream of casting a white actor, you'd just look a lot harder for the correct person.
One theory the documentary put forward was that colour-blind casting across Brtish TV (Including Who) was the norm in the 60s. But after Enoch Powell's notorious so-called "Rivers of blood" speech in 1968, racial tensions were much increased and TV producers became unintentionaly less likely to hire multi-ethnic actors for roles, unless it was a specificly non-white character.
Also, 'Star Trek: TOS' can be jaw-droppingly sexist despite it's barrier-busting reputation. But compared to other shows of the time it really was a leap forward and so was Doctor Who.
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DrCrowTStarwars said:
Yeah there were not a whole lot of American actors in the UK at the time.
But the few there were, got plenty of work! Many faces in Star Wars can be found cropping up in British TV to play Americans.
Mac McDonald - Is practically a one-man industry for playing Americans in British Sci-Fi TV and Film or American movie productions shot in the UK...
Red Dwarf
Fifth Element
Aliens
Batman
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Ryan McAvoy said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
Yeah there were not a whole lot of American actors in the UK at the time.
But the few there were, got plenty of work! Many faces in Star Wars can be found cropping up in British TV to play Americans.
Mac McDonald - Is practically a one-man industry for playing Americans in British Sci-Fi TV and Film or American movie productions shot in the UK...
Red Dwarf
Fifth Element
Aliens
Batman
Yes but we are talking about the early 1960s not the 1980s here. By the 80s you saw more Americans playing americans on Doctor Who. In the 1960s the British film industry was having some real problems that it took a while to recover from. The American film industry was in trouble too but it was bigger to begin with so ii fared better. There just were not alot of americans coming over to the Uk and I would be surprised if those that were would be cheap enough for Doctor Who. Remember that back then Doctor Who was not the flagship series it was today. it was just one low budget family show that the BBC produced with a total budget of two thousand five hundred pounds an episode and The Gunfighters was a serial that's purpose was to come in under budget so the producers would have more money to spend on other stories that season. Even if some Americans had been I round it seems unlikely Doctor Who would be able to afford them. Besides casting locals is easier. Even today on American production with multi million dollar budgets you some times see Americans trying to sound British so I really wouldn't hold the Gunfighter against the Doctor Who production staff or the BBC in general.
While Scotland had a sizable Tibetan refugee community during the time of Planet of the Spiders not many were actors. The Abominable Snowman had the same problem a few years earlier but hardly anyone seems to mind there because it's in marvelous monochrome.
Talking of which, next time I watch Warrior's Gate I'm going to turn off the colour for that full Cocteau feel.
SilverWook said:
Maybe they were in short supply where the Beeb was concerned?
Beeb?