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Do people like remakes and reboots here, or hate them ? — Page 2

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Anchorhead said:

I don't really have strong feelings on remakes one way or the other. They're either as good or better than the original; 3:10 To Yuma, Ocean's 11, Batman Begins, Casino Royale*, Star Trek09, True Grit - or they're bad; Planet Of The Apes, Willy Wonka.

fixed.   

But I have no idea about 3:10 To Yuma, I've never seen either version.    Batman Begains and Batman(1989) are a tie IMHO.  While I'll agree the new Casino Royale is better than the Peter Sellers version, but I have no idea if  it is better than the  1954 Climax version(I betting its not). 

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Yes, Warb is right.  Ocean's 12 was much better than Ocean's 11.

...

...

PREEMPTIVE *SIGH*

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Warbler said:

True Grit....I have no idea about 3:10 To Yuma, I've never seen either version......Casino Royale...I have no idea if  it is better than the  1954 Climax version(I betting its not). 

*edit*

Comment removed.  Not worth the trouble.

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I think remaking a classic is bad territory to tread on. In the end, the classic version will always be seen as the better one, because it is instilled into people's hearts and minds. A lot of the time people remake a movie without being blatantly obvious of it. I saw a movie that combined It's a Wonderful Life and Groundhog's Day. While it was not as good as either film, it didn't do it in a way that made it a complete rip off.

In some cases a remake of a classic that was based off of a classic novel is a good idea, like True Grit. Then you have remakes of a classic that was based off of a classic novel that becomes a travesty, like Willy Wonka.

If you can improve upon the subject material to a great degree, and still have originality, you will do well.

In 1997 there was a mini series that closely followed Stephen King's The Shining. While it made many of the book's fans foam at the mouth, it wasn't as interesting as Kubrick's film. It works as a mini series, but would fail as a film. In the end a book is something you can enjoy over a period of several hours, but it would be uncomfortable and boring to do in film.

The film version of a book should be a "Highlights" set up. In the end, a film editor does that job better than even the director. You cut out all the fat, you focus on the core of the story, and you tell it in the best way possible, you have a great film. So, while Stanley Kubrick didn't have every single moment and piece of dialogue in his film, (It would have been boring thanks to King's need to jaw), he made the film his own, and it was great.

Only the greats have been able to do this. Kubrick and as of recent The Coen Brothers. These are story driven movies. Take out the dialogue, and they are just as good.

 

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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I've already plastered my opinion of Star Trek 11 over these boards.

It was an average Star Trek film, very similar to Nemesis (which everyone seemed to hate) which was itself a remake of TWOK (in much the same way that First Contact was a remake of Aliens which was itself a remake of Them!).

Not the exciting re-imagining of the universe or shot in the arm that it was made out to be and some fans insist it is and not bad enough to raise an eyebrow or burn J.J. Abrams at the stake for as some fans also insist.

 

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I agree with TheBoost.  Each should be judged on its own merits, but I usually end up hating remakes that look (in trailers) as if they have been made because a studio cannot think of anything else to do.

Bingowings said:

I've already plastered my opinion of Star Trek 11 over these boards.  Not the exciting re-imagining of the universe or shot in the arm that it was made out to be and some fans insist it is and not bad enough to raise an eyebrow or burn J.J. Abrams at the stake for as some fans also insist.

That's a fair assessment.  I wouldn't burn Abrams at the stake, but I didn't like where the film went at all, and from now on I won't go to see Star Trek films at the theater without fail as I used to.

dark_jedi said:There is also a remake of Conan coming out I believe this summer, I really don't know how this is going to be, Arnold's Conan The Barbarian was GREAT!

Damn straight!

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John Milius' Conan was great in of itself.

His brain (and the he really does have a brain) is a giant meatball of testosterone, bordering on the sort of archetypes sections of the homosexual community like to play with (don't believe me?)

 Daddy Bear

and therefore ideal for making films of that kind.

It's a shame he didn't make more past/far future fantasies like that instead of really daft films Red Dawn.

Don't get me wrong, Red Dawn is a guilty pleasure but imagine if Milius had made a film like Starship Troopers instead.

There are only so many uber masculine films that can knuckle crawl and swagger their way around the circuit (in the eighties you couldn't shift for them).

Arnie fitted that film and The Terminator because it was all about his body and he had the brain to work it in a way that the camera loved.

When he was re-marketed as Roger Moore with muscles he rarely approached that level of artistic success.

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Bingowings said:

John Milius' Conan was great in of itself.  His brain (and the he really does have a brain) is a giant meatball of testosterone and therefore ideal for making films of that kind.

Well put!  I was trying to describe Milius to a friend a while back and wish I had thought of a metaphor like that.   I really like the commentary he did with Arnold Schwarzenegger for Conan.  It's one of my favorite commentaries.  I also like his contributions to the documentary that is on the THX 1138 DVD.

There are only so many uber masculine that can knuckle crawl and swagger their way around the circuit (in the eighties you couldn't shift for them).  Arnie fitted that film and The Terminator because it was all about his body and he had the brain to work it in a way that the camera loved.  When he was re-marketed as Roger Moore with muscles he rarely approached that level of artistic success.

Exactly right! 

I miss the eighties...

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There is a very fine line between uber-masculinity and for want of a better word mincing.

Predator stands on one side of the line and Commando is definitely on the otherside.

Rocky I and II and First Blood are on one side of the line, Rocky IV and Rambo are on the other.

Muscular men are not masculine in of themselves, Clint wasn't particularly muscular and Bob Mitchum got his amazing physique in Cape Fear by holding his gut in.

It's all about the attitude.

What made Life On Mars (the UK version) such a breath of fresh air for me was Gene Hunt was a flashback to an earlier time when men didn't need to preen themselves to fit in to a advertising executives idea of what a man should look like it was a self constructed and peer enforced masculine identity.

That said I think there is a need for films where supermen strut their stuff in as much as there is a need for films where wonderwomen strut their stuff but there needs to be a clever brain working the story and the audience has to be tuned into the inherent absurdity of the thing.

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Johnny Ringo said:

So, they are either good...or they are done by Tim Burton? ;)

Honestly, I put down the first two films that jumped out to me as terrible remakes. Swear.  ;-)

In the interest of not singling out Burton, these two also come to mind;  Bad News Bears & The Taking Of Pelham 1 2 3. 

Both seemed to have singled out the part of the story that appeals most to profit margins (understandable), but completely lost the emotional & cerebral side of the films - which make the originals (to me) much better films. 

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Anchorhead said:

Warbler said:

True Grit....I have no idea about 3:10 To Yuma, I've never seen either version......Casino Royale...I have no idea if  it is better than the  1954 Climax version(I betting its not). 

*edit*

Comment removed.  Not worth the trouble.

as you wish.  Please understand my previous comment was just done to give my opinion, not to offend you. 

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As far as remakes go the remake of The Italian Job was offensive, how can they call it a remake?, showing a one second clip from the original movie doesnt make it a remake or a reimagining as they barely stick to the original movie.Using the Mini's as an escape at the end of the movie doesnt make it a remake also. 

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Murry Sparkles said:

As far as remakes go the remake of The Italian Job was offensive, how can they call it a remake?, showing a one second clip from the original movie doesnt make it a remake or a reimagining as they barely stick to the original movie.Using the Mini's as an escape at the end of the movie doesnt make it a remake also. 

You make a good point about furthering muddying the waters of what a remake even is.

Ocean's 11 was about a former army group committing a bunch of robberies for money.

Ocean's 11 remake was about a bunch of professional theives and wacky characters doing one robbery mainly for personal revenge and romantic comedy.

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The Wicker Man was a horror/thriller/comedy/musical hybrid film about the clash of faiths between a neo-pagan community and an uptight devout Christian police officer lured there. It's original cut is lost possibly forever but the film exists in two cuts, the longer being the better of the two.

The Wicker Man was a comedy about BEES! which only exists as an animated GIF.

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Bingowings said:

The Wicker Man was a horror/thriller/comedy/musical hybrid film about the clash of faiths between a neo-pagan community and an uptight devout Christian police officer lured there. It's original cut is lost possibly forever but the film exists in two cuts, the longer being the better of the two.

I myself couldn't even get into the director's cut ...

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Has anyone seen the True Grit remake yet? and if so how is it? I just got True Grit the original on Blu-ray and am watching it now, holy shit does this look and sound GREAT for as old as it is.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Bingowings said:

The Wicker Man was a horror/thriller/comedy/musical hybrid film about the clash of faiths between a neo-pagan community and an uptight devout Christian police officer lured there. It's original cut is lost possibly forever but the film exists in two cuts, the longer being the better of the two.

I myself couldn't even get into the director's cut ...

It's a unique film but hardly impenetrable, it's not going to be everyones taste but I can't imagine anyone not getting where it's coming from if that's what you mean?

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<short post> Execution is key. </short post>

All in all what matters is that it's good and, entertaining. For example I hold the first two seasons of 2nd BSG to be fantastic, engaging, intriguing, awesome television. Conversly it's last two seasons and, spin-off were bad in my oppinion. I've given the original BSG a few chances but, it was in my oppinion just a tad better then what 2nd BSG had become in latter seasons. However mostly unwatchable due to (for lack of a better description) being uncomfortable to sit through.

Since Batman's been brought up essentialy, Batman's been remade far more then is commonily realized. Batman & Robin (Robert Lowery) 1949, Batman Dracula 1964, Batman tv series/feature film (Adam West)1966, Batman Fights Dracula 1967, Batman (Michael Keaton) 1989, Alyas Batman en Robin (Joey de Leon) 1991, Batman Returns (Keaton) 1992, Batman the animated series (Kevin Conroy) 1992, Batman Forever (Val Kilmer) 1995, Batman & Robin (George Clooney) 1997, Batman: Dead End (Clark Bartram) 2003, Batman Begins (Chrstian Bale) 2005, ... you get the picture. Yes I realized I included a fan film but, whatever. In the end there's still just one original Batman preceeding all of those Batman (Lewis Wilson) 1943. So if you like any other Batman other then Lewis Wilson's your liking a remake/reboot/reimagining of Batman. Since he got the first onscreen appearance of the Dark Knight.


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There you go I thought all seasons of nuBSG and Caprica were equally good only the finales were a let down and the finale of BSG could be fixed with a few edits here and there.

It's pretty much a subjective thing.

As long as the originals are preserved anything that comes later is just another work with a connected title and as subject to personal taste as the original piece was.

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I don't know that you can everything else a remake/reboot/reimagining of Batman, just because the movie serial came first.   I'm not sure that movie serials count.

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There will always be people willing to create works using an already established title, be that multiple iterations of stories originating in a different medium or a fresh perspective on stories across the same medium.

Films based on plays, games based on films, television shows based on comic books, comic books based on radio plays etc.

Most of the time it's a cynical brand exploitation exercise but that doesn't necessarily mean the final product won't have genuine entertainment or artistic value.

It's a bit annoying when your local cinema or television station shows these things at the detriment of mostly original material but it's really up to the individual if they see value in them.

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Warbler said:

I don't know that you can everything else a remake/reboot/reimagining of Batman, just because the movie serial came first.   I'm not sure that movie serials count.

 Again, this is how muddy the waters are of even what counts as a remake.

Just because a film features the same fictional character, is it a remake? The Batman serials's plots were in no way remade. The villian "The Wizard" never made another appearance in Batman films

Couldn't the 1960 Batman just as easily be a sequal to the Batman serials of the 1940s? There's no major contradictions in story. Different cast and style, but so is "Batman and Robin" compared to "Batman Returns." Or are they just more Batman movies?

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TheBoost said: Different cast and style, but so is "Batman and Robin" compared to "Batman Returns." Or are they just more Batman movies?

may I remind you that Commissioner Gordon and Alfred were played by the same people in all 4 of those batman movies? 

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Warbler said:

TheBoost said: Different cast and style, but so is "Batman and Robin" compared to "Batman Returns." Or are they just more Batman movies?

may I remind you that Commissioner Gordon and Alfred were played by the same people in all 4 of those batman movies? 

Judi Dench plays M in Die Another Day and Casino Royale.

The Dench M in Goldeneye is seen standing near a portrait of Bernard Lee's M setting them both in the same film continuity.

So either Dench is playing at least two different M's or Bond is a codename for the 007 agents and Craig is a totally different human being playing out a professional biography to confuse anyone trying to identify him and previous agents.

It's up to the viewer if the Kilmer Batman (who's former dalliance with Catwoman is mentioned in Batman Forever) is the same Batman as Keaton's but he can't be the same one as Bale because both show different first encounters with the Joker (unless there are two Jokers in this pack).

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Warbler said:


I don't know that you can everything else a remake/reboot/reimagining of Batman, just because the movie serial came first.   I'm not sure that movie serials count.


Well that's kind of getting into subjectivity. I mean most people "count" Keaton as the first Batman in movie form but, that's completely false. Adam West was the first Batman in theatrical movie distrubution. Whoever was Batman in Batman Dracula was first in a small exhibition in a museum. So who gets credit for the first?


TheBoost said:

Just because a film features the same fictional character, is it a remake? The Batman serials's plots were in no way remade. The villian "The Wizard" never made another appearance in Batman films

Couldn't the 1960 Batman just as easily be a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">sequal</span> to the Batman serials of the 1940s? There's no major contradictions in story. Different cast and style, but so is "Batman and Robin" compared to "Batman Returns." Or are they <span style="text-decoration: underline;">just more Batman movies?</span>


The Wizard was in Batman and, Robin not Batman 1943. Dr Daka was the villian in the first serial. As for contradictions in story(43 vs. 66) I don't know, haven't seen the original serials yet.

I used the catch-all "remake/reboot/reimagining" for a reason. Afterall, 2nd BSG counts as a reboot/reimagining but, there's no Count Ibilis, Imperious Leader, or robo dog on board Galactica.

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