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Did they really need Carbon freezing scene in ESB?

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Sorry if the thread may not seem "general" enough to be included in this forum, however as much as I got crazy about OT and, especially, Harrison and Carrie both on- and OFF -screen (you know there was some indication that they had some kind of sexual attraction to each other behind film set and it was my dream when I was 10 after seeing ESB the first time round - of them having got married in the real life, haha), I now begin to grasp some plot turns as with the aforementioned one: the sense of bargain between Lando and Vader was that Vader captures Luke holding as hostages Han&Co, then he "alters the deal" and decides to test carbon freezing machine putting Solo in it with Leia and wookie being left in Bespin for ever according to novelization and brought to his ship according to the movie. So, if you decide to freeze Han, just take him from the cell, separate him from his campanions  and made the rest of your job. Why should Leia, wookie and even robots be kept together in all their way to the Carbon Chamber?

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I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Mavericks said:

So, if you decide to freeze Han, just take him from the cell, separate him from his campanions  and made the rest of your job. Why should Leia, wookie and even robots be kept together in all their way to the Carbon Camera?

For emotional resonance. The scene wouldn't have much in the way of gravitas if it was just Vader and a few ugnaughts in the room dipping Han into the vat.

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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their Wookiees. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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Vader needed Luke to feel their pain.

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Making Leia proclaim her love to Han in ESB was a mistake imo. The conclusion should be left for ROTJ. That way it would make Han and Leia subplot and characters much more interesting in ROTJ, while ESB wouldn't lose on anything.

真実

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You're forgetting Harrison wasn't under contract for Jedi at the time. The possibility was there he might not want to come back for the next film, hence Han in the ice cube tray.

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Where were you in '77?

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J.W. Rinzler’s amazing Making of Empire Strikes Back book addresses this. Like you, director Irvin Kershner and Harrison Ford really felt it made no sense as written, so they came up with solutions on the fly.

If memory serves, Vader is trying to keep Solo from doing anything rash. With Leia there, Han has to comply lest she be hurt. Solo also tells Chewie to stop fighting and protect the princess on his behalf. Now Chewie too is under Vader’s control. 

It’s also another way to tempt Luke. If you remember, Vader only tortured everyone on Cloud City so that Luke could sense their pain and fall into his trap. The emotional turmoil over the Carbon Freezing is yet another lure.

If you haven’t read  Rinzler’s book, I HIGHLY recommend it.  There’s a real-time transcript of the entire Carbon Freezing story conferences, including Carrie Fisher slapping poor Billy Dee Williams HARD during rehearsals! You really see how great Kirshner was with his actors, and why Empire works so well. 

Hope this helps! =D

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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That transcript previously appeared in the original making of paperback book as well. I don't know if anyone had thought of putting a wireless microphone on a director at work before, but publicist Alan Arnold deserves kudos for doing it on the Empire set.

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Where were you in '77?

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Frankly, I like the scene. Besides, I like to ponder on what is running through Vader's mind while all the lovey dovey stuff between Han & Leia's going on.

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@ScruffyNerfHerder

Thanks that is really interesting... I actually really wish they had cemented that into the film that if Han did not comply then Vader would have hurt Leia although now you have said it it seems quite obvious but I never really perceived it that way.

All we got was "They never even asked me any questions"

Which is fine but that certainly would have helped explain Han's motives a lot more clearer.

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It's arguably the best scene in the movie. So...yes. ;-)

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Since they were torturing Han, you'd think they would have wanted to know where the rebel fleet rendezvous point was at the very least. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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ScruffyNerfHerder said:

It’s also another way to tempt Luke. If you remember, Vader only tortured everyone on Cloud City so that Luke could sense their pain and fall into his trap. The emotional turmoil over the Carbon Freezing is yet another lure.

 

  Indeed, THIS did tessellate. Well, of course it should have been so obvious earlier. But here one moment of questionable participance of Harrison in ROTJ appears: after they turned Han's body into the piece of Carbonized Ice, Lando squatted down and after a brief revision of life gauges, stated that "he's alive". So, if Han survived wasn't it somehow connected to the fact that Ford was viewed as a member of the cast on ROTJ set?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Mavericks said:

So, if you decide to freeze Han, just take him from the cell, separate him from his campanions  and made the rest of your job. Why should Leia, wookie and even robots be kept together in all their way to the Carbon Camera?

For emotional resonance. The scene wouldn't have much in the way of gravitas if it was just Vader and a few ugnaughts in the room dipping Han into the vat.

Plus Vader gets to finally see the droid he created as a kid named C3PO.
 

Another ridiculous PT nod to the OT Lucas created!

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SilverWook said:


Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their Wookiees. ;)
POTY

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Mielr said:

It's arguably the best scene in the movie. So...yes. ;-)

 The film has many far better scenes.

真実

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imperialscum said:


Mielr said:

It's arguably the best scene in the movie. So...yes. ;-)


 The film has many far better scenes.


That's why I said "arguably" and not "definitely". ;-)

But, it has the best line in the movie, IMO. I can't imagine ESB without that scene, or that line. The Vader/Luke revelation scene would probably be my #1, with the carbon freezing scene a close 2nd.

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imperialscum said:

Mielr said:

It's arguably the best scene in the movie. So...yes. ;-)

 The film has many far better scenes.

 Don't list them and explain why they're better. Just say it. :P

Seriously, though, which scenes do you consider superior?

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The scene's completely cut out of the 8mm cut. Lol.

So, a new book came out and we learned so much, and it is called, “Anguilosaurus, Killer of the Living”.

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Reegar said:

imperialscum said:

Mielr said:

It's arguably the best scene in the movie. So...yes. ;-)

 The film has many far better scenes.

 Don't list them and explain why they're better. Just say it. :P

Seriously, though, which scenes do you consider superior?

"I am your father" scene. Pretty much most of the stuff on Dagobah. Imperial March introduction scene (just the amazing combination of music and visuals makes for a far better scene - one of my favourite scenes in entire trilogy btw). "Apology accepted" scene (brilliant). Most of the scenes involving imperial officers subplots (especially this element is usually completely overlooked - one of the most complex/adult element in the film imo). Asteroid chase scenes are also great (SFX stuff) and I get more satisfaction from them.

And of course the kiss scene on the Falcon which is far more necessary (and better imo) than the "I know" scene.

真実

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Didnt Lando have a line (that wasn't used) to Han explaining that Han's loved ones were present to "make him behave" (ie. not resist)?

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Did they really need trash compactor scene in SW?

Did they really need TIE Fighter chase in SW?

Did they really need asteroid chase in TESB?

Did they really need Sarlacc battle in ROTJ?

Did they really need to make the films?

No.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Did they really need trash compactor scene in SW?

Did they really need TIE Fighter chase in SW?

Did they really need asteroid chase in TESB?

Did they really need Sarlacc battle in ROTJ?

Did they really need to make the films?

No.

 The problem with this approach is that it can be used to excuse anything.

1: "Did the podrace in TPM really need to be so drawn out?"

2: "Did they really need the asteroid chase in TESB?"

or

1: "Did Anakin and Obi-Wan need to be that close to the lava on Mustafar? It destroys believability when they don't even break a sweat."

2: "Did Star Wars really need to happen?"