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Did George actually have an "original vision?"

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I sure don't think so based on many of the inconsistancies in the series. There are plenty of things that I don't think George "originally envisioned" when he made the original Star Wars films. Some examples:

1. I don't think he originally envisioned the character Qui-Gon Jin when he was making the OT.
2. I doubt he originally envisioned Anakin being conceived by midichlorians or growing up as a slave
3. I'm not convinced he knew Vader was Luke's father when he made Star Wars or if Luke and Leia were always brother and sister
4. I really don't think he originally envisioned Boba Fett's daddy as the man who was cloned
5. Is there any way he originally planned to have Padme die when he wrote ROTJ and Leia said she remembered her mother?!
6. Didn't he originally envision a tension between Owen and Anakin as well as tension between Owen and Obiwan? None of this was developed in the prequels. Heck, Owen met Anakin AFTER he had left Tatooine and "gotten involved." There was just no impression that Owen thought Obiwan was a wacky old man either. I mean the dude gave him Luke to raise!!!!
7. Nobody can convince me that George had visions of trade disputes and Jar Jar Binks 30 years ago
8. There is no way he originally envisioned Greedo shooting first. I mean, Han was clearly loading his reched blaster
9. If Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when he was old enough, then why didn't he ever say anything
10. The terms "Padawan" and "midichlorians" were absent from the OT, so how could this have been part of the plan?

There's plenty more I could come up with, but I really think his so-called vision was never really clear.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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I can't say he never had an original vision, because, obviously, the first plan he had was technically his "original vision". Whatever it was got lost in the translation due to success, greed, and no one there (like Gary Kurtz) to keep him from doing whatever whimsical thing he wanted to. And, yeah, most of the stuff you wrote are direct results of him just making up prequels as he went along and trying that whole fan service routine (like the droids, Chewbacca, and Baby Fett). I still don't see why people have problems with the whole "He wanted you to have this," line. It seems pretty clear that that's just another one of the things Ben told Luke to make him think his father was a great person. As Darth Simon and countless others have said, it's better than telling Luke, "I took this from your father after I chopped him in half and left him to die."

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Just one movie, just it's story. Read his early drafts. They aren't part of some grand saga. Nor do they lend themselves to becoming one. Which is clearly obvious in how the movies aren't even close to consistent from one to the next. The plot holes (what little plot there is) out him as a liar.
Around 1980, he made the switch from filmmaker to businessman.
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What I hate about GL is that he LIES all the time regarding his original view. He didn't have anything at all when he filmed the origianl Star Wars, he didn't even know it was "episode 4"! After the movie became such a huge hit, he wrote vague descriptions of the following 2 movies, and that's it. He came up with Leia being Luke's sister on a plane trip during ROTJ pre-production for Christ's sake! He has constantly contradicted himself regarding Anakin disappearing when he died. And he wrote all of the prequels as he went along with it... Now, as I've said before, there is nothing wrong in making it up as you go, but why lie to the media claiming you're a genius who concieved 4, uh I mean 3, uh I mean 2 trilogies back in 1974?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Its called he's nucking futs...crazy...loopy...off the deep end...a few sandwiches short of a picnic...cuckoo...etc.
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hey just curious to knwo if any of you know lucas personally... or have even had chat in person with him before...
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thats what i thought


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Originally posted by: ricarleite
What I hate about GL is that he LIES all the time regarding his original view. He didn't have anything at all when he filmed the origianl Star Wars, he didn't even know it was "episode 4"! After the movie became such a huge hit, he wrote vague descriptions of the following 2 movies, and that's it. He came up with Leia being Luke's sister on a plane trip during ROTJ pre-production for Christ's sake! He has constantly contradicted himself regarding Anakin disappearing when he died. And he wrote all of the prequels as he went along with it... Now, as I've said before, there is nothing wrong in making it up as you go, but why lie to the media claiming you're a genius who concieved 4, uh I mean 3, uh I mean 2 trilogies back in 1974?


Just wondering, is there any evidence that Lucas literally made that up on the plane ride over? Wasn't that just Mark Hammil joking with George (as in, "Did you just make that up on the plane ride over?")?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Well knowing LucASS, he's always writing this stuff as he goes along and can screw up his story and tampers with it from time to time.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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have you ever sat down and had a heart to heart with him have you ever even met him. interviews dont always show what a person is like. prefect example is will smith apparently he is a complete prick, but if you judge him from all his interview he seems like a really nice guy.
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Shimra..me and you have fallen out..haven't we. I mean i was gone yesturday and you said stuff about me behind my back.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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what how could i say stuff behind your back on a forum.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
What I hate about GL is that he LIES all the time regarding his original view. He didn't have anything at all when he filmed the origianl Star Wars, he didn't even know it was "episode 4"! After the movie became such a huge hit, he wrote vague descriptions of the following 2 movies, and that's it. He came up with Leia being Luke's sister on a plane trip during ROTJ pre-production for Christ's sake! He has constantly contradicted himself regarding Anakin disappearing when he died. And he wrote all of the prequels as he went along with it... Now, as I've said before, there is nothing wrong in making it up as you go, but why lie to the media claiming you're a genius who concieved 4, uh I mean 3, uh I mean 2 trilogies back in 1974?


Just wondering, is there any evidence that Lucas literally made that up on the plane ride over? Wasn't that just Mark Hammil joking with George (as in, "Did you just make that up on the plane ride over?")?


I'll look into it, but I'm pretty sure he came up with that on an airplane or in the bathroom

OK seriously speaking, I got that from the Mark Hammil comment, which I belive was not really intended as a full joke, if he said such a thing, that's because no one knew about it before GL got aboard on the plane.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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He had an original vision alright and filmed it, and by all accounts another director-friend of his (I think it was Brian DePalma) watched it, turned to GL and said.. 'well done george, you've just made the worst film I've ever seen.'
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it's been a while since I read it, but i seem to recall an article from the Official ROTJ magazine (which I had when I was seven and read until it literally fell apart in my hands) where Lawrence Kasdan definitely says the Luke/Leia sister thing came up in story conferences for Jedi. I may have also read something like that in the Annotated Screenplays books.

not sure if the germ of the idea didn't fall into george's brain while on a plane, tho. perhaps whilst joining the mile-high club with linda rondstadt?
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OK, so, still, not part of a pre-ANH "original vision" as GL always claims.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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well, at least some of the pre-ANH material is out there, right? i've never read it but there's that early draft of "the star wars" from the early seventies that's on many websites. so it's possible to legitimately trace at least some of what lucas knew in those early days.

my personal feeling is that he may have had some sketchy idea of IV-VI, but that the prequels were almost certainly an invention of the mid-nineties. certainly nothing close to the nine-episode saga he claimed was in his brain after the success of "star wars." savvy bit of marketing there, george, claiming you have EIGHT other star wars movies in your head as soon as the first one is a smash hit...but i'm not legitimately buying it.
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OK from what I know:

* Early 70s, he invisions this space sci-fi movie that has the same feel as the old matine serials such as Flash Gordon. He starts to write some stuff and do some concept art. General Luke Starkiller, midgets being the heroes, Solo being a green alien, the story of Mace Windu a Jedi Bendu of Utapau, and stuff like that.

* Mid 70s, he has everything pretty much planned for a SINGLE MOVIE. Obi-Wan dosen't die, there are these force crystals, the art concept guy came up with Vader being in a suit, "may the force of others be with you", stormtroopers with lightsabers, and all that early draft insanity.

* He starts to cast and move the film to pre-production, and he finishes a final draft at the same time. By the time he began casting and creating ILM he still had an early draft. Still no sign of the so called "saga".

* Finishes shooting, movie is released and is a hit. GL is smart enough to know HOW to milk this cash cow, and he does it brilliantly. He comes up with the concept of Star Wars being episode 1, later episode 4 (yes he did considered having Star Wars as episode 1), and writes down small drafts of the following movies. The Emperor is not to appear until movie nine, there is NO death star 2, and so on.

* Comes up with the concept that Vader might be Luke's father (not even GL knows for sure either). Finishes writing the story for ESB, calls Irvin Kershner who takes on the project and make it work.

* Movie is also a hit, he WAITS for Harrison Ford answer so he knows if Solo should be killed off or not. Harrison ford agrees to be in the next one, he writes down a vague story CLOSING the trilogy, because he was probably very bored by now. He gives up doing the later trilogies and try tries to come up with anything to close the movie. Comes up with the Leia being Luke's sister thing.

* ROTJ is released, he focus on other projects.

* Early 90s, he is bored again, and decides to mess up with Star Wars. Lucasfilm and FOX want to re-relase the movies in 1997, but they need something extra to justify someone going into the theater and watching a movie everyone has seen thousands of times: they come up with it being a "director's cut" version - it has been done before with Close Encounters and Fantasia. They change the movie, add a few scenes and add CGI to justify people going into the theaters, NOT because GL had this "original vision", he never had such a vision.

* GL gets trapped in lies and more lies, so he just keeps lying to cover it. He says that the movies were changed in order to make it closer to his original view. Starts pre-production of Phantom Menace BEFORE he had a script written - casts Natalie Portman as OBI-WAN'S WIFE (remember that?! I do, back in 1997). Writes something in a weekend, and moves on with production.

* Losing his touch and his creativity, trapped in media lies and confused by the plot holes, directing bleak, week and slow movies, he goes on and destroy the chance to do good prequels by writing and directing them himself, and adding as much bluescreeen as possible.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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In the prologue of the novelization they had a little bit about the Emperor and the fall of the Jedi, but it's very vague and simple. It's written by Leia in the Journal of the Whills.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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But that whills journal implies that Palpatine is inreasinlgy reclusive and unaware of the Empire's corruption. It makes it out as though Vader himself is the source of all that is evil in the Empire.

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
have you ever sat down and had a heart to heart with him have you ever even met him. interviews dont always show what a person is like. prefect example is will smith apparently he is a complete prick, but if you judge him from all his interview he seems like a really nice guy.



Well of course interviews don't show what Lucas is like. They only show what Lucas wants them to show. He controls them remember? I doubt we will ever see him do a real interview, where he could be grilled. Tell me Shim, have you ever meant him?
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nope, but i dont pretend to know him and judge how he did things in his life, how he made his movies and such. i also dont make asumptions about him that are negative.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
nope, but i dont pretend to know him and judge how he did things in his life, how he made his movies and such. i also dont make asumptions about him that are negative.


Well if you did any digging yourself you could easily find information that contradicts his statement of having it all planned out before hand. The funny thing is you actually believe he did, don't you? You love the PT, ok I'll give you that, but buying his bull that he had all stories done is laughable and extremely sad.
"Drink the Kool-Aid. Wear blinders. Cover your ears. Because that's the only way you can totally enjoy Revenge of the Sith -- the final and most futile attempt from skilled producer, clumsy director and tin-eared writer George Lucas to create a prequel trilogy to match the myth-making spirit of the original Star Wars saga he unleashed twenty-eight years ago. Fan boys, of course, have convinced themselves otherwise. So have several critics, if you go by early reviews."
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Originally posted by: fans own the trilogy
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
nope, but i dont pretend to know him and judge how he did things in his life, how he made his movies and such. i also dont make asumptions about him that are negative.


Well if you did any digging yourself you could easily find information that contradicts his statement of having it all planned out before hand. The funny thing is you actually believe he did, don't you? You love the PT, ok I'll give you that, but buying his bull that he had all stories done is laughable and extremely sad.


i'd never call a man i have never met a liar though, show some respect for the man that created your life.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa

i'd never call a man i have never met a liar .


even when the evidence seems to indicate that he is not telling the truth?
Also, would you just assume a man you've never met is telling you the absolute truth?

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Originally posted by: Shimraa

show some respect for the man that created your life.


But he didn't create my life. My parents and God did that.