
- Time
- Post link
it would be a nice thought.
it would be a nice thought.
Since I don't really have anything to add about the horrific shootings that hasn't been contributed by everyone else, aside from expressing my own dismay and my feelings of sympathy to 005's friend, I'm just going to go ahead and talk about the movie.
*SPOILERS*
After having had a little over twelve hours to digest (and have nightmares of Bane murdering people), I have to say that it was really good, but I don't think it was as good as the previous two. Does it break the trend of the third film in a trilogy being a huge drop in quality? Actually, it probably does, but it does have hints of that bloated quality that, for example, Spider-Man 3 had.
Some new characters (Bane, John Drake, Selina Kyle) were great additions, but some just seemed to come out of nowhere and either served no purpose but to have one more character (Deputy Commissioner Foley) or just bombard you with "What the hell are you even doing in this movie"itis (Miranda Tate). The latter is particularly bad. I mean, she's of course accompanied by the obviously going to be appropriated into a doomsday device a la the water vaporizer in Batman Begins fusion reactor plot point, but then, hey, suddenly she's having sex with Bruce and is now the love interest. Well, that was certainly... completely random. And it's made even worse when it turns out that she's actually Talia al Ghul and the mastermind behind the whole plot. I mean, I barely knew who she was at all up to that point. There's a difference between a twist and just purposely obfuscating things so much that your big reveal is a complete ass pull. However, as someone who is knowledgeable of the comics, I did find myself thinking at the fake Bane parentage reveal, "Ra's al Ghul doesn't have a son. He has a daughter," so the real reveal was exciting on that basis. But it also fooled me enough just because this series, and this movie in particular, takes such deviation from the source material that for a while I believed that Bane could have been his son.
Anne Hathaway was amazing as Selina. I love how her retractable goggles doubled as cat ears, and it doesn't surprise me that the moniker of Catwoman was completely absent. Part of me wishes she had been explored a little bit more, particularly the whole motivation about this "clean slate" technology. But, while making substantial use of a power I detest, feminine wiles, she still comes across as wonderfully cunning and able. Her "Han Solo" turn at the end was, of course, predictable.
Has anyone noticed that every single movie in this trilogy has its final act centered around trapping people in Gotham or a part of Gotham? Not saying it's necessarily ineffective, but it does seem to have been done a bit too much. At least they actually gave a reason this time as to why the bridges and tunnels weren't an option, and pretty damn good reasons they were, particularly turning the military and cops against each other.
I wish Alfred's role had been bigger, but every scene he was in was gold, from his vacation monologue to his admission of the letter burning. He really stole the show, but I found myself really longing for his return. They really took him out of the movie too soon, in my opinion.
Batman coming back after eight years of seclusion and depression seemed extremely random and staged. That is, the motivations weren't there, and it seemed to exist only because this is the point of the movie where Batman is supposed to come back. Yes, Bane is discovered to be in Gotham, but it seemed more realistic in The Dark Knight where Batman considers The Joker to be beneath his time and energy until he makes Batman take notice. Here it was just a botched rescue attempt of a congressman ending in Gordon being hospitalized (big whoop... he got "killed" in the last film), and Bruce gets a pep talk from a random cop he's never met, and all of a sudden, Mr. "The World No Longer Needs Batman" just up and decides to be Batman again. Hardly seems proper motivation given how deeply entrenched Bruce was at that point.
What I thought was silly but ultimately didn't bother me is some of the stuff with Gordon. Like how he really needed to write out a big long speech admitting the truth about Harvey. Was it really that hard to remember? And, of course, it just happened to be grabbed by Bane who reads it aloud to incite the citizens to riot. But then again, no one seems to question its legitimacy. Didn't it occur to anyone that the terrorist who just blew up a stadium might not be telling the truth? Bane could have pulled out a blank sheet of paper and "read," "My name is Jim Gordon. And I am gay. Also, Bane is a really cool guy, and you should all listen to him." Apparently that would have worked just as well. It also seemed a bit iffy that Gordon picked up on Batman's admission that he's Bruce Wayne. Surely in his career he's comforted more than one grieving child. But like I said, those don't really bother me.
There was one moment that really broke the reality for me. And when it happened, I immediately thought back to an interview with Michael Keaton I saw, where he admitted that, several times on the set of Batman, he and Jack Nickelson would be looking at each other and just crack up when they realized that here they were grown men, dressed like that, and taking each other so seriously when, in fact, it was really completely ridiculous. And that moment for me was when they unveiled the Batman statue at the end. And suddenly it all just cracked when I realized these people were making this solemn, somber, completely unironic gesture to a huge statue of a man dressed up as a giant bat. It just doesn't work. It's impossible to take seriously. Granted, it was slightly better than what I initially expected would be under the curtain: a framed portrait of Batman made in the same "I'm sitting in a photo shoot for my official government portrait" vein as Harvey's from the previous film. That cracks me up just imagining it.
Finally, I loved the ending. We all suspected they'd do something quite final with Batman, much more so than had ever been seen in any other continuity. They had some pretty big bat balls here. It does lead you to believe that Bruce has died, although it turns out to not be true. And the way they did it, I think, was ultimately better than if he had died. I can't see comic book Batman ever retiring in this way, but it works for this continuity. I love that Blake is set up to become Bruce's successor, but I wish they'd left out the "reveal" that his real first name is Robin. That was just a bit too much, especially considering he's primed to become a new Batman, not a sidekick to Batman. Honestly, that one little moment ended up reminding me of the ways the Tim Burton films had tried to incorporate a completely nontraditional Robin character into those films, like Damon Wayans as a garage mechanic named Robin. But aside from that slightly *wink wink* moment, he seemed like the perfect successor. And it was just highly satisfying to finally see Alfred's fantasy come true, and for Bruce's character arc to finally resolve itself. Because that's the problem with a comic book character like Batman. He's designed to evolve to a certain degree and then just stagnate, because they need him to keep being Batman and doing Batman things. In fact, it's part of his legacy that he will be relentless and never find closure. But it's nice to finally see a Bruce that comes full circle, one who never needed to be Batman forever.
There was only one moment when I thought the movie's "Occupy Wall Street" politics were groan-worthy, and that was during the stock exchange heist, the total cartoon of a stockbroker whining about his money, and the cop making the statement about his money being under his mattress. I wanted to yell, "Movie, you're being too subtle! Please make it clear what you're trying to tell me!"
Ultimately, I'd almost say this movie was unnecessary. It could have ended with The Dark Knight, and I would have been totally satisfied. But Nolan did pull out a third installment that seemed, for the most part, necessary and well-done. I can't wait to see it again. Because I'll definitely see it again.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Its a terrible tragedy. Some of the media over here have already been blaming the Batman franchise as they have been reporting that he had his hair dyed red and that he was calling himself the Joker. Maybe they should get their facts straight before trying to make something else out of this. They latch onto one little detail like the colour of his hair and blow things way out of the water, especially when the Jokers hair is green.
Gaff, when was Robin ever in a Burton Batman?
adywan said:
Its a terrible tragedy. Some of the media over here have already been blaming the Batman franchise as they have been reporting that he had his hair dyed red and that he was calling himself the Joker. Maybe they should get their facts straight before trying to make something else out of this. They latch onto one little detail like the colour of his hair and blow things way out of the water, especially when the Jokers hair is green.
Well, that's just what he reportedly told the police - that he was the joker. who knows...
“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas
TV's Frink said:
Gaff, when was Robin ever in a Burton Batman?
In early versions of the scripts. Both times they tried to incorporate a Robin character before ultimately giving up (and then eventually going a more traditional route in Batman Forever).
The Batman DVD contains a storyboard (voiced by Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill) of a proposed scene of The Joker and Batman fighting in a circus, ultimately killing Dick Grayson's parents. And like I said, in Batman Returns, they had cast Damon Wayans as a streetwise mechanic named Robin who was supposed to help Batman out.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
^Disaster averted.
TV's Frink said:
^Disaster postponed.
adywan said:
Its a terrible tragedy. Some of the media over here have already been blaming the Batman franchise as they have been reporting that he had his hair dyed red and that he was calling himself the Joker. Maybe they should get their facts straight before trying to make something else out of this. They latch onto one little detail like the colour of his hair and blow things way out of the water, especially when the Jokers hair is green.
Maybe he thought he was Caesar Romero's Joker as his hair was never the same colour from shot to shot.
I don't get it.DuracellEnergizer said:
TV's Frink said:
^Disaster postponed.
Fixed =P
I'm talking about Burton's Batman. Disaster averted. That other Batman carp can do whatever it wants.
I was planning on see the movie on Sunday. But with the shooting, it somehow doesn't seem right. Maybe I wait awhile.
While I understand where you are coming from Warb personally I'd never allow someone like that the power to alter my behaviour.
I would have seen the film eventually and I still will but if I was really keen (like I was with Prometheus..pff) before I wouldn't change my plans.
It seems more disrespectful to the victims me to allow the murderer any further power of influence.
I don't know, I just feel like I'd be thinking about the shooting instead of enjoying the movie, like I'd be wondering is this the part of the movie where the guy came in and started shooting everyone?
I saw the midnight premiere, loved it, then last night my friends asked if I wanted to see it, and I immediately said yes. And I want to see it again. It's that good.
I cannot express how sad I was to learn of the shooting. That hit me deep. I was at one of those showings! I've been going to the theaters since, literally, I was an infant, and I've never once thought I was ever in any danger. I always walked in the theater thinking I'm going to sit down and see a movie now and nothing can stop me from watching it. The theater was always a place to escape to, and to, sometimes, watch a work of art.
But I have to say you can't let this shooting define your choices. You can't live in fear. If Batman has taught us anything it's to not let criminals control our actions.
Now what I'm about to say next may sound insensitive, so I apologize ahead of time. You guys really have to go to this movie. This movie needs to make serious, serious money. They don't make films like these anymore. This film is an epic. A large scale, practical effects laden epic. And it's smart. This is what blockbusters should be. If the American people could prove that they get past tragedy to see a film worth seeing, it could prove to the big wigs in Hollywood that they need to start making real films again, not stupid 3D cash grabs. And the thing is, people are going to the theaters less and less these days. This is the last thing theaters need. I do not want to live to see the day when films are no longer released on the big screen. So yes, I would like to say I am deeply sorry to the victims in Colorado. I realize what I just said was rather selfish.
But now I say that you really should see the film, not just because it's good, but because I feel it might be even more important now, than ever. I won't give anything away, but Batman has always been about standing up to criminals - but not killing them, and not using guns, I would like to add. I've heard some people say they wished that someone in that theater had a gun - this wish boggles the mind.
Anyways, go see it. I read somewhere what scene the man started firing during. If any of you want to know the scene so you can get it past you while you watch (knowing which scene it was let me get it out of my mind when I re-watched it) I can tell you. I'll try not to spoil anything, but it was approximately 20 minutes into the film, the scene where there is a shootout in the bar Anne Hathaway's character is at. Hope that helps. Peace.
I had to wait till Tuesday's show and for decent seats. Reason: There were scalpers for IMAX tickets. Standing outside even. WTF?
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
My IMAX was PACKED Friday. I got there at 9:30 for the 11 o'clock showing and the line was already about to go out the door.
Just saw the movie.
What a good ending.
to hell with James Holmes,
I've decided to see "The Dark Knight Rise" tonight as I originally planned. I am not going to let that sick nut dictate my actions. Originally I was concerned that it may be disrespectful to the victims to go to the movie this weekend, but you guys have convinced me that it would be wrong and disrespectful to let this sick nut keep me away from the theater.
Good for you Warb!
I hope you enjoy the film.
It's sad that I've seen so many headlines call this the "Batman killing spree", "Batman shooting", or something similar.
This type of incident can happen anywhere. The guy chose a crowded movie theater on opening night.
Nobody should feel ashamed for seeing and enjoying the movie. The movie did not cause the incident.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
Warbler said:
I've decided to see "The Dark Knight Rise" tonight
Warb, I think I'm most interested in your opinion of the film. You sometimes have some surprising takes on sequels. When I think you won't dig something, you do. When I think you will, you swear it off as non-existent.
Since I don't plan on seeing it in the theater, I'll just wait until cable. Dark Knight was, for me, a weird mix of worn out from pre-release hype - eventually followed by disappointing story and film. It's looking like Batman Begins and Batman89 are it for me. Ultimately I'll probably end up buying Dark Knight just for the Chicago scenes (love that city).
Anyway, I expect your take to be interesting either way.
Anchorhead said:
Warbler said:
I've decided to see "The Dark Knight Rise" tonight
Warb, I think I'm most interested in your opinion of the film. You sometimes have some surprising takes on sequels. When I think you won't dig something, you do. When I think you will, you swear it off as non-existent.
didn't know you felt that way. didn't know I was that unpredictable.
Anchorhead said:
Since I don't plan on seeing it in the theater, I'll just wait until cable. Dark Knight was, for me, a weird mix of worn out from pre-release hype - eventually followed by disappointing story and film.
you didn't like it eh? It blew me away. I thought Heath Ledger was great. But you are not the only one on here to think Begins was better, Ender does as well. I do agreed I don't like all the hype, but I try not to judge a movie based on it.
Anchorhead said:
It's looking like Batman Begins and Batman89 are it for me.
I like Batman89 too, especially the music. Its the best Batman music.
Anchorhead said:
Ultimately I'll probably end up buying Dark Knight just for the Chicago scenes (love that city).
Anyway, I expect your take to be interesting either way.
After I see it, I'll tell you what I think.
After rewatching the first two on Thursday I have to say that I too also like Begins more than Dark Knight. I really dug Rises because it felt more like Begins.