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Dark Empire Collection - OT LD to DVD set (* unfinished project *)

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 (Edited)

(Formally the Odyssey collection)

Just to restate some things for this thread:

Equipment:
Video Capture System: Media 100 i/xr (this system captures a lossless signal) (we have roughly $30,000 in this system)
LaserDisc Player: Pioneer DVL-91

Software:
Mpeg Encoder: Cinema Craft SP (the best software based mpeg 2 encoder available - comparable to hardware encodes)
AfterEffects (for menus, captioning, image adjustment)
DVD Studio Pro 3 for DVD production
Filtering & picture correction software to be determined

The Discs (as I see them now):
No special features other than motion menus (intro+chapters)
Dolby 2.0 audio (track provided by laserdisc)
No trills to allow the highest possible average bitrate (dvd-player-max with audio 10.08bps)
I will encode to use all avalible space of a dual layer disc.

Cover (1st draft - test edit needed):
Low quality cover image

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Well, my Pioneer DVL-91 is on the way along with the trilogy laserdiscs.

Can't wait to capture some of the same frames you guys have to see if all this high $$ equipment makes a difference. It very well may not.

I hope it does so I can avoid as many filters as possible. I noticed that Zion did multiple captures for a per pixel comparison clean up. This is really something I'm hoping to avoid.

Is it something everyone is doing (multiple captures)?
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In order to achieve a rot spot free transfer, there is an AVIsynth filter called "TOOT" that will check three separate sources of video pixel by pixel and average the two most similar. So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots


This is what I'm talking about. What is a rot spot visually? I take it they are a product of the actual LD. Are they due to wear er what?
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"Is it something everyone is doing (multiple captures)?"

No. I am using Combustion 3 to remove visual glitches frame by frame. I'm becoming less and less pleased with filters as time goes on.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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So it's the little white spots. I've seen these on several encodes. I noticed that nasty line across the bottom of the above frame. Is that due to an Deinterlacing glitch?
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Is there any kind of prep work(cleaning) I should do to the LDs before capturing?
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1. Make sure your LD player is plugged in.
2. Make sure your monitor AND video capture program are calibrated. If you do one or the other, your colors could be way off. Get Video Essentials, calibrate the monitor, and then calibrate your capture settings.
3. Turn off all other programs. Video capture is CPU intensive, and you don't want dropped frames. Otherwise, IVTCing is more difficult.
4. Have a lot of hard drive space ready for capture. Some programs, like VirtualDub, will "create" a file to be filled in during the capture, but it's hard to gauge how much space you need beforehand. In uncompressed RGB, ANH takes up 200 Gbs. Using HuffyUV, it takes @50Gbs.
5. Get more disc space. If you intend to run filters or such, you will need up to double the space for the "filtered" set of AVIs. That is, unless, you intend to make changes to your masters, which I wouldn't recommend. Lord knows how many times I've had to redo a compile because of some dumb mistake (not clicking a particular option, etc.)

Those are the biggies. Let us know if you have any other problems.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Is there any kind of prep work(cleaning) I should do to the LDs before capturing?

Clean them off like you would a CD or DVD. Get some cleaner spray or even windex and wipe them off with a lint-free cloth (I use a t-shirt). This will help to make sure that your player reads the disc as best it can. This probably won't reduce the amount of rots spots though.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Just got my discs & dvl-91. I'll be doing some testing this week.

I have a few questions:

Do you guys think the composite out or s-video or will be best for this player. (I'll test both)

What software do I need to deinterlace my video(is it free - Link??)
AE has this built in but I bet it's not as good as what you guys are using.

I'll post some unfiltered deinterlaced images asap.

I'll probably be doing 2 sets as well (16x9 & letterbox)

I noticed my capture machine captures at 16x9. I'll test this feature as well.
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You could use Virtual Dub (free, GPL, link here) to deinterlace, though it's not perfect... (I use a plugin called Smart Deinterlacer)

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Originally posted by: zion
Clean them off like you would a CD or DVD. Get some cleaner spray or even windex and wipe them off with a lint-free cloth (I use a t-shirt). Heh, that site that khamul02 posted says that Windex is bad for laserdiscs!
Originally posted by: khamul02
Do you guys think the composite out or s-video or will be best for this player. (I'll test both)
With a high-end player, you'll probably find that s-video is better in terms of less dot-crawl, colour bleed, etc. But I'd be interested to see the results of your test, I did the same thing myself (see here).

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First capture / Raw / Not very impressive:
Shot A - RAW
I noticed my white levels were a bit blown out during the capture. That might explain a slight reduction in detail.
Also this is using the S-video outs on a DVL-91. I'm going to try the composite to see if that will help the detail.
I noticed that Zions shot A had a bit more detail in the back of that stormtroopers belt but lost a bit in vaders face.
Is this a trade off or a result of the capture?
& what is the deal with that slight ghosting around the right side of vaders face?
I had the media 100 bringing in 300k per frame so it can't be a result of the frame quality.
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"I noticed that Zions shot A had a bit more detail in the back of that stormtroopers belt but lost a bit in vaders face.
Is this a trade off or a result of the capture?"


Zion's capture was too dark, thus his blacks were crushed.

"& what is the deal with that slight ghosting around the right side of vaders face?"

Too much sharpness applied. Boundaries are made more distinctive, but gradients are lost. This creates a sharp drop between light and dark areas.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I'm more than disappointed in this process. Deinterlacing is presenting noticeable image distortion especially if the frame has horizontal lines. So far, I used every filter available and a host of software packages with almost every adjustment imaginable & I'm not pleased with the results. In my opinion, Blending is a poor method for handling deinterlacing. On the other hand, interpolation doesn't do that go of a job either. So far I have found no method to reproduce the quality the MSU filter "SEEMS" to be getting. Of course, you can't get theirs for a year??

The best results I've had are as follows:

Use Virtualdub: Frame Rate:IVTC adaptive.
**This seems to remove a large amount of the interlaced frames (their removal is base on them being duplicate frames)
**My source is showing 2 of every 5 frames is interlaced ( I assume this is standard for telecined video)
Then I use this filter for the remaining interlaced framesDeinterlace - area based
**As with others it has a Show deinterlaced areas only option that will quickly show what is being monkied with.
**I like this one the best because I can really get it to do, what seems like, the least amount of damage. Also, the setting I'm using only seem to mess around with a handful of pixels on the frames that do not require any deinterlacing.

Is there a way to get a deinterlace filter to just adjust the interlaced frames & then MAYBE apply the VirtualDubs IVTC to remove the duplicate frames thus removing a good bit of the frame that were originally interlaced?

I know a lot of people doing this process have suggest a variety of deinterlacing filter but this far after using them I have not been very impressed. I'm almost to the point of only using color correction & sharpening filter that handle interlacing a producing an 24 fps somewhat interlaced version.

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This is what I do, and it works every time:

Capture from the LD source at full resolution without cropping. Make sure "top field first" is selected. You must have zero dropped frames.

In VDubMod: Video > Framerate > inverse telecine - Choose "reconstruct from fields - manual" and in the offset box put 3.

Start your video on the first progressive frame of the sequence (P P P I I).

Crop/Filter/Do whatever else.

Try this on a short clip first to make sure you have all the settings right. Not once have I found an extra interlaced frame in my video after this. The only thing I can't answer is whether any progressive frames are lost.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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"I'm more than disappointed in this process. Deinterlacing is presenting noticeable image distortion especially if the frame has horizontal lines. So far, I used every filter available and a host of software packages with almost every adjustment imaginable & I'm not pleased with the results. In my opinion, Blending is a poor method for handling deinterlacing. On the other hand, interpolation doesn't do that go of a job either. So far I have found no method to reproduce the quality the MSU filter "SEEMS" to be getting. Of course, you can't get theirs for a year??"

According to everything I've read, this is pretty much par for the course. I'd rather leave the film interlaced, than introduce video artifacts. Considering the work I'm doing cleaning the film frame by frame, the last thing I want to do is gunk up the picture with unnecessary garbage.

"Use Virtualdub: Frame Rate:IVTC adaptive.
**This seems to remove a large amount of the interlaced frames (their removal is base on them being duplicate frames)
**My source is showing 2 of every 5 frames is interlaced ( I assume this is standard for telecined video)"


If you know the pattern, then don't use adaptive - it tends to lose the cadence occasionally. Go to manual, and start with a setting of 0. Do a direct stream copy and watch the picture. If you see artifacts, then go back and try a setting of 1, and so on. When you get the right number, there will be no artifacts. Let it keep working until it's finished.

Sometimes, as is the case with the LDs, the cadence will change. Simply fast forward through the video until you see artifacts again, and repeat the procedure from this point on. Later on, you can cut the videos at the appropriate points, and then append the good segments together. My masters have ZERO IVTC artifacts using this method.

Looks like Zion's is similar to my method. I was just too lazy to look for the P frame. You can see almost immediately if you got the right cadence or not anyways. Off the top of my head, I remember a cadence change between the time Luke talks to Han and then talks to Leia on Yavin IV before the battle.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Are the all interlaced frames duplicate frames?
In other words, does this process get rid of any frames that the movie needs?
OR is generating these 2 interlaced frames all the telecine process is about?

I'm a bit confused by the process even after a good deal of research.

If you have 30 fps and you remove essentially 12 (2 of every 5) interlaced frames that doesn't equal 24 fps (it = 18fps)

Anywho, This info is most promising.
I wish I could have put this process together from all the crap I've read.
I guess I'm just not used to restoration work. All I have ever done is 3D max, after effects, media 100, and DVD production.
This project is literally working backwards first before I can move forward.
Once I get the cadence change in each movie I'll post the exact frame it takes place at so on.




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My bad, The process is not removing but reconstructing (dope "RECONSTRUCT") frames based on the interlace frames.
Right??
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Hey MeBeJedi,

"& what is the deal with that slight ghosting around the right side of vaders face?"

Too much sharpness applied. Boundaries are made more distinctive, but gradients are lost. This creates a sharp drop between light and dark areas.


I didn't aply any effects to this shot DE Shot A & all my capture settings are set to a lossless capture?

I've seen this on everyones shot A unless it seems to be to hot/bright.

Is there someway to deal with this with a during the capture process? I paused the frame at this shot on the LD ( I realize this isn't an accurate representation of the frame) but the slight ghosting on his head is present even on the LD.
Could this be a product of using the s-video output?
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I'm using the decomb filter. You don't have to worry with cadence issues. It doesn't touch progressive frames.
Sweet

Anyone else used this one?