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Da Nao Tian Gong -- The Monkey King - Uproar In Heaven (1965) RESTORATION *v2* — Page 2

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 (Edited)

PAL will do, no sweat! :).. But I'll try to explain myself thoroughly.

PAL DVD line resolution is the only choice. (It'll also auto upscale if done right as you say).

I also realize BD is still in it's infancy. Likewise 24pHDTVs, players and equipment. And it might be hard or impossible to do good transfers. So I'm just encouraging, and try only if you want to. (sorry I can't help).

 

The reason:________

It's the somewhat heightened voices/sound of PAL25fps that bothers me a bit, and fixing it kind of goes hand in hand with 24p, cause pitch"correcting" isn't really good. And I won't start looking at NTSC. The 3:2 and 480 is icky and interlace is pure horror. :P

That's why I prefer BD ->24<- over DVD, even at same line resolution (non HD).  Hope you followed. :)

_________________

 

 

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In my search for a better secondary source for Uproar In Heaven I came across these...

 

Ginseng Fruit (1981) ~44 mins.

The only version that seems to be available of this is on vcd. This is definitely better!

Subtitling is about 90% done.

 

 

I also found a third version of The Monkey King Conquers the Bone Demon (1985).

In some ways it is superior to both official dvd's.

It does however have a few problems - blended fields and aliasing... but still might be a nice alternate version.

It requires a lot of reworking of the subtitles though.

Screens - 1st theatrical version from official dvd, 2nd tv/episodic version from official dvd (notice how overcropped it is) and 3rd this new version (also the tv/episodic version).

 

 

 

'Ginseng Fruit' will definitely be done; the other - well I'd like to release it also, but we'll see...

 

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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If you're in Denmark you might have a chance to see Uproar In Heaven on the big screen...

http://www.dfi.dk/cinemateket/Program/Filmbeskrivelse.htm?id=f19971

It will be shown tomorrow (the 11th) and again the 28th of September.

It's an English 35mm theatrical version.

Of course I'll be going both times...

What a strange coincidence... and great opportunity. 8)

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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 (Edited)
Tobbeo said:

Sorry I can't be of assistance (no experience), but impossible?

Every frame is intact (well almost) and originally intended to run in 24fps. PAL just plays it erroneously fast, there must be authoring programs that can correct this and convert it to BD(24p). (or will converting distort it unacceptably?)

Anyway reason I want BD 24 is mostly the audio pitch-up of 25, but also why watch films incorrect when there's a choise.

 

NTSC-film uses 23,976fps which is the same as Blu-Ray. Although basicly everybody falsly states BD is 24p it's actually 23,976. NTSC DVDs can also be played in so called 24p if player & display support this.

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Hey fellow "Abekongen" fan (yep, i'm danish) :-)

 

Found this presentation of the movie in a Danish movie theatre specializing in showing older classics:

http://www.dfi.dk/cinemateket/Program/Filmbeskrivelse.htm?id=f19971

The text from the page:

Abekongen

Historien om Abekongen er en kinesisk fortælling fra 1500-tallet skrevet af Wú Chéng'?n. Historien bygger på nogle endnu ældre legender og udgør en vigtig del af Kinas kulturhistorie. I Danmark husker de fleste nok tegnefilmen fra Gunvor Bjerres 'Mellem himmel og jord'-udsendelser fra 1980'erne, og nu har du muligheden for at se udgaven fra 1965 på det store lærred i Cinemateket. Kopien er yderst velholdt.

Da nao tian gong
Kina, 1965
35mm, 114 min.
Engelsk dialog
Tilladt over 15 år

is translated (loosely hehe) to:

Uproar In Heaven 

The story about The Monkey King (Abekongen) is a Chineese tale from the 16th century written by Wú Chén'ën. The story origins in some even older legends and is an important part of China's cultural history. In Denmark most people remember the cartoon from Gunvor Bjerre's "Between Heaven and Earth"-tvshows from the 1980's, and now you have the opportunity to watch the version from 1965 on the big screen in Cinemateket.
The copy is extremely well-preserved.

Da nao tian gong
China, 1965
35mm, 114 min.
English dialogue
For 15+ years

 

Thought you might be able to get help to where they have gotten their fine "extremely well-preserved" edition from - even with English dialogue like you're looking for.

Their contact info is:
Cinemateket
Gothersgade 55, 1123 København K
Telefon (+45) 3374 3412
cinematek@dfi.dk
 
The (+45) is country code Denmark so you don't need to add that on top.

I got the 40th edition on DVD but can't understand a single word hehe. I really wish you the best of luck and look forward to buying it - especially if you manage to include the original Danish voiceover - that would be awesome!

Don't have time tomorrow but hope to watch it on the big screen the 28th. Uh i'm all excited now hehe.

/Cheers

Peter

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Bah just saw your post with the link right after I posted... well good luck anyways. :-)

 

Since you're Danish, maybe try to contact Danmarks Radio - they usually have loads of old tapes lying around. :-)

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By the way - my friend who gave me the 40th edition also gave me a DVD named "Golden Monkey Subdued the Evil" from 1989. It's a one-disc 20th anniversary edition. The english text on the back cover reads:

"Monkey King helped Monk Tang travel to the west to take the Buddhistic sutra. They met a White Bone Evil on their way to the west. The evil appeared to be human for three times to seduce the Monk but Monkey King brought down it. On account of Monk Tang's misunderstanding, he laid the blame for Monkey King's rudeness and incanted to drive him away. Money [yes it's spelled like this hehe] King did nothing but endured his complaints and returned to his birth place, HuaGuo Mountain after then. Tank Monk and his disciples were later cheated by White Bone Evil to enter the false "Tianwang Temple". However, Bajie escaped and went to Huaguo Mountain to find Monkey King for help.

Hehe. :-)

The cover also states the following readable text besides a lot of chineese letters:

86mins
2.0
Color
DVD 5
16:9

The bar code on the cover reads:
9 | 787884 || 144167 | >

with ISBN 7-88414-416-6

 

I assume it's a sequel. I don't know if it got english subs or sound - it's still in it's plastic foil.

Just thought i would mention it. :-)

/Peter

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Hehe, I tried getting a copy of this for a Chinese film season I've been managing here in Essex, but apparently the only copy available to screen is a 16mm dubbed print in Manchester that's seen better days.  (It was the print used for the British Film Institute's tour of the film a couple of years ago.)

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iRantanplan said:

NTSC-film uses 23,976fps which is the same as Blu-Ray.

Yes I know, it gets about 1s longer every 15 min... no biggi, but NTSC is too low res.

 

~OnTopic:

BOHOO! I want a free plane ticket to Denmark.

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Another update:

I'm basically stopping the search for other and/or better sources for these movies.
I've been unable to locate the dvd of the Chinese bootleg version and the English narration audio.
I've spent a lot of time and money so far trying to get every version out there, but I have to stop sometime...

I did have a lead on the English narration but it seems unlikely I will get it at the moment... Oh well.

Since every version I have of the full version has various problems, the companion disc with the alternate version is on hold for now.
If someone can get me the Chinese bootleg dvd (error free) or a lossless vhs rip of the French version I will be happy to work on it... But it seems silly to work on it now, when I know there are better versions out there.

Maybe after the restoration is released someone will come forward? We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I'll post some mini-reviews later for all the Monkey King dvds I've accumulated so far, in case some of you were wondering which versions to get and where.
Also some notes about the theatrical version coming up..


Planned dvd specs:

The Monkey King - Uproar In Heaven (1965) FAN RESTORATION

PAL DVD5

Runtime: ~110 mins.

Audio:
Mandarin mono/stereo
Danish narration
Swedish narration
French dub

Subtitles:
Chinese Simplified
English (reworked fansub)
English alternate (reworked from Taiwan ed.)

- Stabilized and cleaned image
- Re-inserted 20+ mins. missing from the 40th anniversary edition
- Hand-cleaned/repaired hundreds of frames (There are still a few frames with writing on them remaining, some would basically need redrawing to fix)
- Color-corrected entire movie as best as possible (due to damage, it's basically impossible to make it completely consistent, but I've tried)
- Restored stereo audio from poorly faked 5.1 audio
- Tried to make the audio slightly less grating
- Added credits
- Added reworked fansub and reworked Taiwan ed. subs, including new subs for the added scenes

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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I'm sorry to hear that your quest for better versions didn't go that well, especially considering the amount of effort and time you've put in.

On the other hand, the hard work you've already accomplished so far is pretty darn impressive as it is! I hope everything works out smoothly for the rest of your project!

The original Star Wars trilogy: Our cultural history deserves to be preserved and should be available to the public like all great works of art!
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A small note for Tobbeo (who was asking about the possibility of 24fps):

Having done a small bit of research, it might be possible to do a pal dvd with 24->25fps pulldown, also called a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown (google it for more info). Don't know that much about it yet, will need to do some testing. But could be a way to retain the 24fps...

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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Thx, but 2 judders/second sounds nasty (but may be it's not noticable). Anyway perhaps discussing "24p BD authoring" a bit over at http://forum.videohelp.com could answer you if it's an option yet. (There's a bd authoring sub-f). I'm Real sorry for nagging. (will def. stop now:].

 

Probably nothing(same cover), but just in case 80th Aniv. 10dvdpack source was missed.

PAL http://www.yesasia.com/global/1004276156-0-0-0-en/info.html

NTSC (covers seen here(eng-sub))http://www.ioffer.com/i/Chinese-Animation-80th-Anniversary-10DVD-Set-Limited-Ed-32622301

 

B.T.W

I made a "wallpaper" out of the image here http://www.ani-sh.com/08SAFS/html/index.html. Scaled, lightly cleaned(jpg artif.), also stretched it vertically like the smaller image on the same page (not 100% which one is correct) got bigger anyway. :P

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4764/sunwukongbb7.th.jpg

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Looks great!

- do or do not, there is no try -
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Nice! :)..  There is one more king image on the site.. only it's composition isn't as suitable. Too bad we don't have "original size" but it looks good.

 

Anyway I may have good news. The rate issue may never have been an issue even. Not 100% sure yet.

______________________________________________________________

UPDATE.. As i was afraid, DVD image is 24p but sound is 25 and blu-ray don't convert. SO no go.

_______________

 

 

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Ok, time for another post..

@McPeter - Sorry, I don't have a facebook account and I'm not really in a hurry to get one. Hope you all can follow this thread instead. :)

It's been a bit quiet, mainly because of that pesky thing called 'real life'.. ;)

Anyway, the video will soon be locked, and what remains is fixing/syncing some of the audio and the subs. As mentioned before there will be a completely different translation other than the common fansub. It needs heavy editing though, as it's pretty bad in it's original form.

Also, I'm imposing a deadline on myself - I will release this just before Christmas at the latest.

This (Uproar In Heaven) will be the first in (hopefully) a series of releases called The Monkey King Fan Project, which will most likely be these:

Ginseng Fruit (1981) - Mandarin audio w/English subs, minor restoration/fixup

Monkey King conquers the Bone Demon (1985) (Alternate versions) - alternate versions of both the theatrical and episodic version w/fixed subs. Other language narrations exits for these but has not (yet) been found

There are three or four more cartoons, but they have only Mandarin audio and no subs of any kind. So for those to happen I would need the help of someone who could translate it..

 

 

...

 

The theatrical version... As said earlier, I was lucky enough to catch Uproar In Heaven on the big screen.

It was an English print (with the English narration) in very good condition. The colours were similar to what you may have seen on tv or vhs - heavy on the blue and red and lacking some yellow.

But there was so much detail, more than I've ever seen... Especially in the dark scenes you could see details not available on any transfer. I made me realize just how much the 40th edition is affected by crushed blacks - a LOT of detail is lost in the dark scenes. :(

For example, in the pills/elixir scene you could clearly make out all the details in the background, and in the furnace scene you could actually see everything that was going on.

But at least there are still prints in good condition around, this one at least, and most likely also some French ones. So it still possible that a better transfer can be made in the future..

The English narration was not very good to be frank. It skipped over a lot of the dialogue and finer points and most of the humour. To bad for all those in the audience who didn't know the story as well as me!

So, while I would like to include the English audio on my version, it's not a huge loss if it doesn't turn up.

The Danish and Swedish narrations are actually a lot better IMO... The Danish especially captures the humour well. The Swedish is a bit too 'childish' for my taste.

 

That's all for now!

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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Sounds great Satanika!

I can't believe how much work you've already put into just this restoration. Especially if you're serious about a series of releases called The Monkey King Fan Project.

You clearly love these films a great deal. While I was lucky enough to have seen the first film in a theatre when I was young, it's a real shame that they've pretty much been lost since then (I had no idea there were sequels). I hope your passion will bring greater attention to these genuine masterpieces of animation that they really deserve.

Best of luck on hitting that first deadline!

The original Star Wars trilogy: Our cultural history deserves to be preserved and should be available to the public like all great works of art!
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A little more news:

I finally managed to get the English narration. :)
So it will be included also. Thanks to Brumme for the lead, which ultimately worked out.

Another note for Tobbeo, who was concerned about the pal speedup:
Well, as you may know, I was able to attend a theatrical screening of this, and the funny thing is that it was the same pitch as most other versions I know of. The only version I have heard with a lower pitch is the Chinese ntsc bootleg dvd - even the official Taiwanese ntsc dvd runs at the same speed and pitch as the pal versions (may be due to shoddy manufacturing though). So it's not entirely clear how it's supposed to sound in the first place... Maybe what you'll be getting in my version IS the correct pitch?

The Monkey King - Uproar In heaven (1965) Restoration/Preservation Project

Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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Hi.

I'm looking for original subtitles for this movie (chinese simplified). Maybe you know where can I download them? They are definitely on the original DVD, but I don't have one.