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Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes — Page 53

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yotsuya said:

Star Wars has the folllowing versions:
(each distinct audio/visual combination listed separately)

1 - 1977 premier version - limited release. Preserved in Puggo Grand and Moth3r’s bootleg (and a few other sources). Identified by alternate end credits and 3 effects shots that were revised (the Star Destroyer shooting at the Falcon, the matte painting composite outside the hanger on Yavin IV, the planet/jungle composite of the fighters taking off). Likely all 70 mm prints were of this version. Featured one of the first 4 track surround sound mixes using the Dolby Stereo system. 1977 sound mix was the same for both matrix stereo and 6 track magnetic on 70 mm prints (the 70 mm prints featured at least one LFE track, probably two)
2 - 1977 wide release version - changed the end credits and the three effects shots. Also introduced the mono mix. Preserved in the Technicolor IB prints and all the known 35 mm prints. All foreign language versions of the film come from this edit.
3 - 1981 re-release - changed the opening crawl to add Episode IV and A New Hope. Otherwise the same as 2. It seems older prints in good shape had the new crawl spliced on so some prints may have been from the premier version.
4 - 1982-1985 home video release - A unique version found in home video that usually featured the 81 crawl, the original premier version of the three effects shots, and the revised end credits. 77 sound mix.
5 - 1985-1989 home video release - A unique version found in home video that featured the 81 crawl, the original premier version of the three effects shots, and the revised end credits. Preserved in the JSC. New sound mix.
6 - 1985 new interpositive version - 2 with the 1981 crawl. First release was the Definitive Edition with a new sound mix.
7 - 2006 GOUT - 6 with the original 1977 crawl put back. Essentially the same as 2, but with the audio mix of 6.
8 - 1997 SE
9 - 2004 DVD
10 - 2011 Blu-ray

Because of the timeline that some of the events are tied to (the foreign language prints, the mono mix, the extant 35 mm prints, the new interpostive in 1985), the alternate end credits and the alternate version of the three effects shots must be from the earliest prints. The negative was edited and remained unchanged (except for the opening crawl) from 1977 until the SE edits were made. My guess as to why so many versions of the home video feature the alternate three effects shot is that they used either interpostives or prints from the premier batch and updated the opening crawl and end credits. And they are only found in English language editions.

I know that the “3 effects shots that were revised” were in 77, but it might still be interesting to have them on the list. Does anyone have a preservation of the JSC that can send me those three shots?

“005 is super hep” - dahmage

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doubleofive said:

yotsuya said:

Star Wars has the folllowing versions:
(each distinct audio/visual combination listed separately)

1 - 1977 premier version - limited release. Preserved in Puggo Grand and Moth3r’s bootleg (and a few other sources). Identified by alternate end credits and 3 effects shots that were revised (the Star Destroyer shooting at the Falcon, the matte painting composite outside the hanger on Yavin IV, the planet/jungle composite of the fighters taking off). Likely all 70 mm prints were of this version. Featured one of the first 4 track surround sound mixes using the Dolby Stereo system. 1977 sound mix was the same for both matrix stereo and 6 track magnetic on 70 mm prints (the 70 mm prints featured at least one LFE track, probably two)
2 - 1977 wide release version - changed the end credits and the three effects shots. Also introduced the mono mix. Preserved in the Technicolor IB prints and all the known 35 mm prints. All foreign language versions of the film come from this edit.
3 - 1981 re-release - changed the opening crawl to add Episode IV and A New Hope. Otherwise the same as 2. It seems older prints in good shape had the new crawl spliced on so some prints may have been from the premier version.
4 - 1982-1985 home video release - A unique version found in home video that usually featured the 81 crawl, the original premier version of the three effects shots, and the revised end credits. 77 sound mix.
5 - 1985-1989 home video release - A unique version found in home video that featured the 81 crawl, the original premier version of the three effects shots, and the revised end credits. Preserved in the JSC. New sound mix.
6 - 1985 new interpositive version - 2 with the 1981 crawl. First release was the Definitive Edition with a new sound mix.
7 - 2006 GOUT - 6 with the original 1977 crawl put back. Essentially the same as 2, but with the audio mix of 6.
8 - 1997 SE
9 - 2004 DVD
10 - 2011 Blu-ray

Because of the timeline that some of the events are tied to (the foreign language prints, the mono mix, the extant 35 mm prints, the new interpostive in 1985), the alternate end credits and the alternate version of the three effects shots must be from the earliest prints. The negative was edited and remained unchanged (except for the opening crawl) from 1977 until the SE edits were made. My guess as to why so many versions of the home video feature the alternate three effects shot is that they used either interpostives or prints from the premier batch and updated the opening crawl and end credits. And they are only found in English language editions.

I know that the “3 effects shots that were revised” were in 77, but it might still be interesting to have them on the list. Does anyone have a preservation of the JSC that can send me those three shots?

Don’t forget the 93 release also came with a new sound mix

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I can’t even see the little white dot ships taking off in the TN1 version. What source was used for the early 77 version?

Also, wasn’t there a new soundmix done in '85 or was it just a port of one of the existing '77 mixes?

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Fang Zei said:

What source was used for the early 77 version?

Japanese Special Collection LD shared on myspleen some time ago

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Fang Zei said:

I can’t even see the little white dot ships taking off in the TN1 version. What source was used for the early 77 version?

Also, wasn’t there a new soundmix done in '85 or was it just a port of one of the existing '77 mixes?

One of the keys in the timeline for me was the audio. Puggo Grand has the three endited shots, the alternate end credits, the 77 opening crawl, and it has a mono mixdown of the stereo audio. To me that cements that the 77 Dolby Stereo mix was done with the first batch of prints, is identical to the 70 mm mix (at least the L,R,C,Sr channels), and not revised agian until Ben Burt made his digital 1984 edit (which we typically call the 1985 mix because that is when it first appeared on home video). I haven’t gotten to it in checking the encoded surround for 1 or 2 channels, but the only noticable change to that mix was the added C-3PO tractor beam line that originally appeared in the mono mix. So for sound editing, I list 4 audio edits between 77 and 93 for A New Hope (because I consider the Dolby Stereo and the 4.2 70 mm version to be different formats of the same mix). The changes made to the 93 mix (which appeared on the Definitive Edition LD set, the Faces set, and the GOUT bonus discs) all originate with the mono mix and many changes made since then have brought the 1997, 2004, and 2011 versions closer to the mono-mix. They just have never changed any of the dialog takes to match the mono mix. So really a lot of the audio changes are just copying over edits made for the mono mix back in 1977.

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pittrek said:

Fang Zei said:

What source was used for the early 77 version?

Japanese Special Collection LD shared on myspleen some time ago

Ah, so the print source for that particular laserdisc transfer still had the older version of those effects shots?

Do we know when exactly the TN1 source print is from?

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Fang Zei said:

pittrek said:

Fang Zei said:

What source was used for the early 77 version?

Japanese Special Collection LD shared on myspleen some time ago

Ah, so the print source for that particular laserdisc transfer still had the older version of those effects shots?

Do we know when exactly the TN1 source print is from?

Correct, the early 80’s home video releases were a strange hybrid of the 1981 crawl, the early 1977 effect composites and the late 1977 closing credits, as noticed by people with much better observation skills than mine.
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Credits-and-Leaders-Thread/id/12960
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/id/14705
and of course yotsuya’s posts in this thread

If I remember correctly the source for the negative 1 scan was a 1977 LPP print?

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Here’s another in the list of the weird first frame of shot glitches:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/215584
The first frame of this shot has elements of the second frame pasted into it (most of Luke’s shirt and his head), presumably because the first frame of the original element was damaged in some way.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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 (Edited)

^ the link doesn’t work anymore mate (as well as a few pics on the first few pages of this great thread).

Quality work and content on your https://twitter.com/starwarsviscomp - nice one, and for the blog too, doubleofive 😃

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

^ the link doesn’t work anymore mate (as well as a few pics on the first few pages of this great thread).

Quality work and content on your https://twitter.com/starwarsviscomp - nice one, and for the blog too 😃

Thanks 00J! As for the early pictures, Google changed everything about how sharing works between when I started and now, then I moved them from my personal account to one specific for this so there’s many reasons why they’re broken.

“005 is super hep” - dahmage

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress / Facebook / Twitter

005’s List of List & Comparisons

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 (Edited)

I loathe it when platforms like Google, photobucket, imageshack etc go and do things like that. It’s most frustrating for all of us - losing quality pictures, art and covers etc for often no real good reason - on here and many other sites too.
 

Anyway, keep up the great work mate 😃

 


Harmy has put up a video on youtube - just to remind everyone that Fan Edits must never be bought or sold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwKZHv4OS0

 

Personally, as a member here, I’d encourage everyone to watch it and upvote that video.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Just noticed something about the ceremony at the end of A New Hope;
https://i.redditmedia.com/BjYfmpBQgGrh-6RtpGMYJZTURcoQr1XOz5VISM9FcqY.png?s=de7c5830eee33f40cc791b247322fa0c
https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Victory_Celebration_ANH.png
Not only have they altered the clearly painted soldiers in the foreground, but the entire matte has been changed. If you go back and forth between the two images, like I did, you’ll see several points where they don’t match up.

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so they didn’t re-comp very many effects shots in empire strikes back until preparing the 2004 DVD?

so a 35mm LPP print of the 1997 ESB SE would be a great source for a restoration project, yeah?

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maxima says: “The hologram effect is pretty simple, IMO. It’s just a filmed element off of a television.”

Just replying to a very old thread with a question. Were they initially vertical or horizontal?

I vaguely remember seeing vertical scanlines on Leia’s hologram at one point, and that makes more sense to me than horizontal scanlines as I can picture them happening as the result of an optimized process for getting that footage using commodity video equipment.

I imagine an enterprising ILM VFX person shooting Carrie Fisher as Leia with a video camera, displaying it on a CRT screen, and then shooting that CRT screen with a film camera. You’d get better resolution out of this process if you shot the vertical Leia with a vertical format (3:4 rather than 4:3), which you could achieve by turning the video camera and CRT monitor 90º. This would result in vertical scanlines in the final composite.

I don’t know if it happened this way or not, but it would make sense to me to shoot it this way in order to waste less of the CRT screen on empty space. It’d be interesting to note if the 1977 versions have vertical or horizontal scanlines on Leia’s holographic plea, if they’re perceptible.

Of course, if Fisher’s performance of the plea was initially captured on film rather than video and then a film loop was projected and captured on video, one could achieve the same optimal resolution by rotating the film projection 90º rather than rotating both video camera and CRT. And then the scanlines would be horizontal. Were I them I’d have gone with vertical scanlines just to make the effect look a a step removed from normal earth technology, but that might be overthinking it.

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doubleofive said:

I am working on upgrading/expanding/completing the Special Edition visual changes for eventual use on savestarwars.com, but figured I’d share it outside of that thread for those interested. I used WookieGroomer’s Splitscreen 1080p wmv to take the frame-by-frame shots, and msycamore provided the 1997 screencaps.

Star Wars 1977/2011

I’m still tweaking it, especially the text. Please submit suggestions for possible text and let me know if I missed anything.

The most interesting thing we’ve noticed is that each wipe from 2004 starts early enough to cover up the original optical wipe and the fades from black start a lot later, almost as if they were trying to cover up the original wipes instead of recreating them. This goes against all previously known facts about the wipes.

EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:

Empire Strikes Back 1980/2011

RETURN OF THE JEDI:

Return of the Jedi 1983/2011

JEDIT: All links are to the final versions.

oh thank you for that this is so helpfull thank you again

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doubleofive said:

I am working on upgrading/expanding/completing the Special Edition visual changes for eventual use on savestarwars.com, but figured I’d share it outside of that thread for those interested. I used WookieGroomer’s Splitscreen 1080p wmv to take the frame-by-frame shots, and msycamore provided the 1997 screencaps.

Star Wars 1977/2011

I’m still tweaking it, especially the text. Please submit suggestions for possible text and let me know if I missed anything.

The most interesting thing we’ve noticed is that each wipe from 2004 starts early enough to cover up the original optical wipe and the fades from black start a lot later, almost as if they were trying to cover up the original wipes instead of recreating them. This goes against all previously known facts about the wipes.

EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:

Empire Strikes Back 1980/2011

RETURN OF THE JEDI:

Return of the Jedi 1983/2011

JEDIT: All links are to the final versions.

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From doubleofive’s Star Wars Visual Comparison twitter account:-

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1138113595722670080

‘In order to add details into the deep shadows present in the original shot, Vader’s face, chest plate, legs, and right arm were added from another source & tracked onto his body for the DVD. (2004)’…

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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 (Edited)

 

An array of additional informative sources regarding the numerous changes made to the Original Trilogy films over the years has been added to the first post of the first page of this quality, comprehensive and insightful thread (with kind permission of doubleofive).
 

This thread will be also soon be pinned to the top of the ‘Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases’ section - as the main reference point and discussion thread for the copious changes made to these beloved films.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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I knew Vader’s face seemed off in that shot but couldn’t put my foot on it.

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 (Edited)

oojason said:

From doubleofive’s Star Wars Visual Comparison twitter account:-

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1138113595722670080

‘In order to add details into the deep shadows present in the original shot, Vader’s face, chest plate, legs, and right arm were added from another source & tracked onto his body for the DVD. (2004)’…

 

Harmy pointed this out years ago, and I wasn’t sure what to make of it as we thought it was brightening only. Recently someone else pointed it out again with the explanation that they are new pieces. Check out the tweet thread for GIFs.

“005 is super hep” - dahmage

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress / Facebook / Twitter

005’s List of List & Comparisons