This shot is still exactly the same original composite, nothing has been done, (if not on the blu-ray, haven't seen it) I suggest you remove it. The one doing the official list back in 2004 clearly didn't know what he was talking about... or maybe he did, it was a great opportunity to demonstrate how awful the old effects were. ;)
The same frame taken from the original film without DVNR applied:
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
This is an odd one, always thought the bright spot that is seen under one of the Star Destroyers in this shot for a couple of frames was dirt, but it is actually engine-glow for a Star Destroyer that made it into the composite for some reason.
It was still there in '97 but they cleaned it up for the DVD.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
I'm working my way thru ESB at the moment, up to the Luke/Vader duel. The first two shots look like 2004 changes to me, curious why none of the duel lightsabers are in the Comparison guide. Was a conclusion drawn about them or no one's gotten to it yet?
There's turning out to be a higher percentage of shots affected for ESB then SW. But almost 95% are minor (V1) things.
none said:
I'm working my way thru ESB at the moment, up to the Luke/Vader duel. The first two shots look like 2004 changes to me, curious why none of the duel lightsabers are in the Comparison guide. Was a conclusion drawn about them or no one's gotten to it yet?
Just make sure to compare with other transfers than the GOUT, its heavy use of DVNR and clipped white level often makes the sabers look quite different.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
None, in case you miss it, this matte shot was digitally recomposited in '97, when doing so they also added two blinking lights on the building to the left. For some reason the bright red blinking light seen on the building to the right on the original is barely seen in the special editions.
GOUT
DVD
Where the original composite with its extra layer of grain and mattelines around the live footage was beautiful and had atmosphere, the new bright and clean one looks fake in comparison. They knew what they did back then.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Background looks absolutely horrible!!!! :(
This is an example of what happens when someone posseses technical skills and lacks "vision"... pitiful!! Couldn't they just added some CGI buildings instead of making even more evident it's a painting??? Tsk, tsk...
Do you like astromech droids? Check The Astromech Collection fan page!
It seems that they have also darkened the actors.
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
Yeah, the mattepaintings look more fake without the optical grain, I noticed that they also added some detail on the building in the right corner.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
^ The timing of Han (carbonite), Imperial Officer and Boba Fett is also shifted a frame or two. Easier to see when they enter Slave-1.
All the changes i've identified are in the shot spreadsheet. The screen captures are made (except for the Luke/Vader duel). Need to go through the cropping and renaming process and upp'ng them to the Visual Guide. Started yesterday, but it's a slow process and after a few phuck ups, I decided to wait until a clearer mind could prevail. And for whatever reason, the one's i've posted show up in the middle.
none said:
^ The timing of Han (carbonite), Imperial Officer and Boba Fett is also shifted a frame or two. Easier to see when they enter Slave-1.
Yeah, everything from the blinking light to the movement of the clouds and live footage have a slightly different timing, that seems to almost always be the case with all recomped elements in the trilogy, something you don't see unless you study the shots like us obsessive guys. ;)
none said:
All the changes i've identified are in the shot spreadsheet. The screen captures are made (except for the Luke/Vader duel). Need to go through the cropping and renaming process and upp'ng them to the Visual Guide. Started yesterday, but it's a slow process and after a few phuck ups, I decided to wait until a clearer mind could prevail. And for whatever reason, the one's i've posted show up in the middle.
Ok, will check it out.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Don't know if this has been found yet but I thought I'd point it out just to be sure. This fade has definitely been redone, because its timing is slightly different:
I got that fade. I thought it was the last thing we'd find. I was wrong.
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
More ESB stuff:
In 2004, Probe Droid Pod arrives one frame early.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672374970553005378
Add to description:
In 1997, the Probe droid animation starts one frame later.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5525753859741775826
or
swap pic and move caption
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672380816678330674
There are many shots which have significant glue stains. Notated some of them in the shot spreadsheet but didn't do an overall review for them. But they seem to have been universally addressed in 1997.
In 1997, clean up of film glue occurred. (Exit) In 2004, Ben's ghost fade in starts a frame or two later.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672805660576040370
In 1997, Han on Tauntaun was recomposited. Han arrives a frame earlier and later in the shot the Tauntaun's feet are less snow covered.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672806175966150994
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672807944130674226
This next one i'm not 100% sure, but it looks like there is falling snow in 2004. You can see some flakes in the pic over the hind quarters.
In 1997, clean up of film glue occurred. (Exit) In 2004, falling snow was added.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672809717898301810
This to me seems like a specific recoloring job. Luke's face is an unnatural color as I think they were attempting to mimic frostbite and the wampa hits to the face. but that purple is something which couldn't have been achieved without make up, but is not apparent in past versions. Here's the 80 boot, 97se, and GOUT and 2004:
In 2004, Luke's face was recolored to show frostbite and impact from Wampa attack.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672811800881533858
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672811836831199410
and this one is my favorite:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672814756359340002
none: There are many shots which have significant glue stains. Notated some of them in the shot spreadsheet but didn't do an overall review for them. But they seem to have been universally addressed in 1997.
If you mean the thing that I think you do, i.e. the darker blots at the beginning of many shots - do you see them in other then GOUT sources? Because I thought that's what they were at first too, but actually, when you look closely, they copy shapes of objects from the last frame of the previous shot, so I concluded that they are in fact especially ugly DVNR artefacts!
^ they're in GOUT and the ESB 80 boot. (when it's in the last shot it's the bottom of frame if it's the first shot it's the top o'frame) here's an example: (glue or Luke's really sweaty)
an example of top glue frame is the establishing shot when Luke's leaving Hoth, the shot with the Rebel Cruiser. dark_jedi mentioned cleaning a bunch up, need to ask him if he's got any remembrances of which frames they were.
Had found some DVNR stuff, should have cappd them, there's a good one of Vader, who ends up silhouetted in the next shot.
none said:
This next one i'm not 100% sure, but it looks like there is falling snow in 2004. You can see some flakes in the pic over the hind quarters.
In 1997, clean up of film glue occurred. (Exit) In 2004, falling snow was added.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5672809717898301810
Yes there is definitely snow falling there but it's there in the original film as well, much easier to see on DVNR-free transfers and old pan & scan videos. The DVNR on Empire is so horrible that I have seen trails from 5-6 frames earlier sometimes. The "frostbite" I would say is just a horrible colortiming issue but you never know with Lucas these days. :)
About those glue marks and splices, I know that you want to cover everything none, but then you may as well start to cover all the specs of dirt, optical grain, film grain and so forth, but that's just my opinion no offense, you have lots of those glue marks on the old IP the earlier releases of the first film was made from, check out the JSC of ANH, the IP they used for the GOUT was much cleaner in this regard. You also have all the missing frames around reel changes, NTSC GOUT-Empire lacks at least two frames for example.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
msycamore said:
None, in case you miss it, this matte shot was digitally recomposited in '97, when doing so they also added two blinking lights on the building to the left. For some reason the bright red blinking light seen on the building to the right on the original is barely seen in the special editions.
GOUT
DVD
Where the original composite with its extra layer of grain and mattelines around the live footage was beautiful and had atmosphere, the new bright and clean one looks fake in comparison. They knew what they did back then.
By darkening the matted-in actors and messing with the colors (AGAIN), the backgrounds have been highlighted and look like cardboard cutouts. Nice job!
Just for fun, here's the same frame from a 70mm film cell - for whatever reason, the ESB cells seem to have the least fading/most accurate color balance of the three films:
msycamore wrote: then you may as well start to cover all the specs of dirt, optical grain, film grain and so fort
I'm all for it, if it should be broken out into a separate category/thread so be it. (maybe a one frame incidental type category - V7) The idea for the spreadsheet is to have all these little doo dads which other people have gone out of their way to fix, notated somewhere, so the next round of fixers will know what to look for. As everything Editous, Adywan, Harmy, DJ and etc. are doing/did will need to be redone, on the film scans forthcoming.
back to ESB:
In 2004, the Snowspeeder cockpit frame was recompositioned. The snowspeeder leans attempt to reflect the changing background.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673173935910293218
This next group falls into the significant recoloring of 2004. The Bacta tank is well just too cyan for me to not consider this a deliberate recoloring/change.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673185657492064338
Extra set of Star Destroyer engines removed in 2004. (as recently posted)
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673192056140486082
another 1997 wipe. 2-1B to rebels
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673374015846707026
Ion Cannon fire is white in 2004.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673374954979448082
When Luke releases the cable and falls from the AT-AT, the shot seems wider. (there's a button with a dot not scene before) and the blue button is now black.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673411116828834546
2004 TIEs recolored.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673438823264103698
1997 garbage matte fixes during the post Hoth, Falcon Star Destroyer dodging.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673439770492684882
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673440705725768722
There are a few shots which are in the SW.com 2004 changes which are not in the new guide. here's one of those:
2004 garbage matte fix - Falcon entering asteroid tunnel
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673448793694895058
2004 change to the tunnel from blue to beige
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673450070930758098
2004 garbage matte fix and shot of Executor (just prior to chatting withthe Emperor) is zoomed in .
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673455364100249570
We elected to remove the garbage matte "fixes" as they are more likely just results of the crushed blacks.
And if you remove the "s" from the https the links will work.
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
None: When Luke releases the cable and falls from the AT-AT, the shot seems wider. (there's a button with a dot not scene before) and the blue button is now black.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673411116828834546
I disagree with this one (not the glue but the widening). The 2004 master generally has much less cropping than any other home video release. It is not a deliberate change, just a result of better video mastering technology.
none said:
This next group falls into the significant recoloring of 2004. The Bacta tank is well just too cyan for me to not consider this a deliberate recoloring/change.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673185657492064338
Again, just for fun, here's the 70mm film cell of the scene on the right - look at all that green and yellow at the top, it doesn't even show up on the theatrical bootleg:
Harmy wrote: I disagree with this one (not the glue but the widening).
yeah, revised the description to just mention the blue/black button. (as the pic doesn't show the glue either)
Another bogwing flying creature shot. 'No Try not' sequence'
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673494660239735186
When Needa takes the shuttle to the Executor, the shuttle and upper Star Destroyer were recomp'd and retimed.
https://picasaweb.google.com/102542760950977079734/EmpireSpecialEditionChangesHD#5673560719042464882
none said:
This next group falls into the significant recoloring of 2004. The Bacta tank is well just too cyan for me to not consider this a deliberate recoloring/change.
Well, that can basically be said of all the scenes on Hoth, every shot have this difference.
Hoth in the original film had various shades of blue, the '04 is a constant cyan or teal mess.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
