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Community Focus Thread 2: Return of the Jedi — Page 3

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That is actually something I haven’t figured out yet, what source to use. I’m really not sure what would be best. Would 4K83 be a good option?

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 (Edited)

I imagine that 4K83 is going to be quite grainy, so any effects work would need to be re-grained for integration. That makes me think that a cleaner Blu-ray source would be better. I think Adywan is using the 2019 version since the Blu-ray is so bad for this film.

At least with a cleaner, more detailed source, it could always be downgraded for use in a more filmic version, whereas it would be more difficult to upscale low-detail work.

I’ve sent you what I have, and if you decide to use another source I will happily use whatever you provide 😃

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Okay. Well maybe others could chime in and provide their two cents, but I think what you’ve sent me will be great to start with!

I went back and skimmed through Ady’s post regarding the ROTJ source and you can tell he’s putting a lot of work to make the best template possible for Revisited with a combination of different sources. Seems like there’s an issue with every source.

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Even when I was using the 2011 as the source for ANH and ESB for my projects, I still went for the 19SE for ROTJ, because it’s easily the worse of the three 2004/11 transfers. (And to my eyes ESB is the worst of the 19SE, although I’m not sure 2011 is necessarily superior.)

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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I’m kind of confused, Hal. You used 2011 because 19SE was easily the worst of three, or vice versa?

Your project would probably work well as a good standard, Hal. It would also be great to use Ady’s whenever he completes his, considering how much care he is putting into making ROTJ look better than it’s ever looked.

I could also see the benefit of using a 4K source for shots that may need to be cropped. For example, it would be great to use Boba’s head nod to Boushh when he tells Vader “As you wish” on the view screen, but I don’t know if the angle is right. The shot would need to be zoomed in slightly, but we probably could get away with it a little since it is on a view screen and there could be some quality/interference.

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I used OTD’s color corrected 19SE, because the 2011 is trash, yeah.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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 (Edited)

I was thinking about your ideas last night, RL, and wonder if the Vader/Boba scene wouldn’t merely confuse as many things as it illumines. For example, now that Boba is explicitly on a mission to take Luke alive, it throws later events into a strange light such as Jabba trying to kill Luke first with the Rancor and then with the Sarlacc. In ESB Boba was concerned for Han’s safety since Jabba wanted Han alive, but in this Boba looks on mutely while Jabba tries to kill Luke. Granted, perhaps Jabba isn’t in on the scheme and is a loose cannon in Boba’s plan, but one would think that he would at least try to influence Jabba’s decisions.

This brings me to the idea: What if it is Boba’s intention to incapacitate Luke in the Sarlacc?

Boba clearly knows how difficult it is to trap a Jedi since even Vader couldn’t do it in ESB, so he would rely not merely on his own power nor on Jabba’s henchmen nor another failed Carbonite gambit. No, the only way he would see to bring in his quarry would be to turn Jabba’s entire force on the Jedi and force him into the most inescapable place on the planet, from which he could extricate his wounded quarry at his convenience.

But how to convey this plan? Probably the easiest way would be for there to be a schematic on Vader’s screen of the Sarlacc, or the shot from the Boba show where he hovers over the pit, distorted of course.

Vader: “You have something, bounty hunter?”
Boba: (Shows Sarlacc view)
Vader: “I want him alive.”
Boba: “If he’s a Jedi, he will survive.”
Vader: “Very well. Once you have Skywalker, bring him to me.”
Boba: “As you wish.”

If this scene worked, Boba’s fate would become absolutely poetic.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Man that’s good. Sarlacc as a Jedi incapacitator works great. You can kind of have your cake and eat it with that one. Is there a shot of Boba and Jabba that could be used to have Boba talk? Where he’s leaning in, perhaps? Because you could have Jabba try to kill Luke via the Rancor (because he’s an obvious threat), but then once he’s recovered have Boba tell him “I could really do with this guy incapacitated”, which would precede the Sarlacc plan.

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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 (Edited)

There’s a shot of Boba right beside Jabba during Luke’s Rancor fight, so it fits well with that.

JEDIT: I also like the questions this Boba plot raises for the Emperor’s arrival scene.

Emperor: “And now I sense that you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker.”
Vader: (long pause) “Yes, my master.”

In the theatrical version, I always interpreted this pause to mean “No shit, Sheev. It’s been my sole character motivation for over a year.”

But in this version, that pause could be Vader wondering if the Emperor knows of his continued attempts to capture Luke on the sly, or if the Emperor knows whether or not his latest attempt succeeded.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

That was a thought I had today as well. I think a lot of that could be assumed. Maybe Boba would’ve negotiated with Jabba about keeping Luke, but once he killed his Rancor he wouldn’t be able to convince Jabba to hand him over.

3PO’s line about them being slowly digested over 1000 years implies they won’t immediately die if they’re cast into the Sarlacc, so Boba might be planning to retrieve him later, like your idea explains. Perhaps 3PO’s line could be altered to be “slowly digested alive for over 1000 years.”

I think an important thing about the new Boba/Vader scene is that it acts as a segue between the opening scene and the rest of the Jabba sequence. But it doesn’t seem like Jabba decides to throw them into the Sarlacc until after Luke kills the Rancor. Perhaps you could have an additional communication scene between Vader and Boba before the Sarlacc sequence where the dialogue plays out as you have it.

You could use the same shots as the earlier scene, or Boba could be sitting in his parked ship communicating with a Vader hologram. You could use shots of Boba in his ship from ESB. You could even use the establishing shot of his ship in Jabba’s palace from the Book of Boba Fett (I personally would rather avoid using any modern shots, but you could probably rework an ESB matte painting of the ship to suit this idea.)

But like I said, I think you could deduce that Boba would either retrieve Luke from the pit, or that he knew Luke had something up his sleeve. I worry two Vader/Boba scenes might push it, but maybe it wouldn’t. That could be something we could test out. But I don’t think it makes sense for them to discuss the Sarlacc in the first scene. You could push their single convo to before the Sarlacc sequence, but like I said, the whole point of their first communication scene is to have the opening scene and the Jabba sequence flow together.

You also have to find appropriate Boba dialogue for this new idea. This is just my preference but I’d like to make any new Boba dialogue worth with the Jason Wingreen voice as well. I don’t know until I can experiment, but I might could get this line to work with both the Morrison and the Wingreen voice.

“Don’t worry. He’ll survive.”

Then when Vader’s hologram goes away, you could have Boba turn to look at a hologram/diagram of the Sarlacc.

Or maybe new Vader dialogue could be constructed to where he tells Boba to pull him out, since there is generally more Vader dialogue to work with, but I guess it serves Boba’s character better if an incapacitated Luke out of the Sarlacc is his idea. I also had considered a scene where Boba could say something to Jabba, but I don’t know if the shots of Boba leaning in close to Jabba are long enough to establish anything.

Anyway, not trying to be negative on the idea. I like the idea. I also want to be careful not to overthink/over-explain stuff. I do like that it could be it’s own scene that can be plugged in or out depending on people’s preferences. I also would prefer if any new shots fit the time period of production and not too modern, but that’s just me.

And that’s a good point on how this all affects the Emperor and Vader’s first interaction. I do have some thoughts I want to share later on Vader’s characterization and the characterization of others.

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 (Edited)

My version opens with some repurposed YT film that represents the Bothans stealing the plans but being tracked.
Off to Luke on Dagonah, chats with Yoda who dies.
NO OBI WAN. The hut goes dark, Luke leaves.
Later on Endor Luke does not tell Leia that they are siblings because he doesn’t know this.
VADER is the one that reveals that Luke has a sister, the force reveals it to him during the duel.
Leia cements it that they are brother and sister, the Force has opened up to her, too.
We already know this if we’re watching things 1-2-3-Rogue 1–4-5-6

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^
My approach to editing ROTJ leans a bit more conservative, and doesn’t require seeing the PT to understand the OT, so I think some explanation of Luke’s sister is necessary, otherwise it comes out of nowhere in the context of the film.

RL, I don’t think that two Vader/Boba scenes would be necessary - like you said, a little exposition goes a long way. However, I do worry that the segue scene runs the risk of not having enough dialogue to feel complete. The scenes, especially in the beginning of the film, are rather long, so having such a brief moment may be awkward.

I agree that any shots we included would need to feel like they could have come from the 80’s, but I think the shot from the show could be made to look grungy enough, especially if we rotoscoped a matte painting of the desert into the background or something.

Also, and this is just an observation and doesn’t necessarily tie into the Boba discussion, but I noticed a potential continuity issue if the palace song and dance number comes before the droid entrance. Oola, the dancer, is cast into the Rancor pit at the end of the song only to appear by Jabba’s tail in the droid entrance. This is only a potential issue since it could be that she’s a replacement dancer, or that he merely dropped her into the pit as a warning and didn’t release the Rancor on her. This may be some indication of why Boba didn’t immediately try to stop the Rancor attack - he may have assumed it was just another power play by Jabba. Then when we see the Rancor appear, Boba is at Jabba’s side, perhaps discussing the Sarlacc gambit.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Thinking about it, I don’t know if we need to have Boba be quite so explicit with Jabba or quite so clear about his intentions.

Our intention here is to tie the Jabba sequence in better with the rest of the film- or rather, from the audience’s perspective, make them feel that it matters to the overall plot and is therefore interesting.

Chronologically, I think the only thing that really needs is the Vader-Boba connection up front, because that tells the audience “Boba is Vader’s agent, pay more attention to Boba, and be aware that what happens here is important to Vader.” Less may well be more in order to up the audience investment.

I don’t think we need to lean into the Sarlacc angle, nor the fact that Jabba attempts to kill Luke via the Rancor. This is Jabba’s domain, and both Boba and Vader know that. In the moment where Jabba decides to drop Luke into the pit, the control is out of Boba’s hands. When Luke survives, he’s back on “capture if possible” duty.

That’s not to say that there might also be a Sarlacc angle here - just that I feel that the primary element for the audience is the bridge from “Vader wants Luke” to Tattooine, and that can probably be handled in isolation so we don’t build too much of a web of thoughts here.

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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You could also add a throwaway line to the Vader Boba scene that indicates that Jabba might get in the way of their plan. Now that I think about it, this might work better if we enter the scene mid conversation, something like this:

Vader walks off, cut to the Slave 1 approaching Jabba’s palace

Cut to a schematic diagram off the Sarlacc, we hear Boba:
“…I can guarantee that, Jabba rules with fear.”

Cut to Vader in his chamber talking to Fett via a monitor:
“I want him alive”

Boba: “He’s a Jedi, He’ll survive”

Vader: “A fierce plan, bounty hunter, but I hope you do not underestimate Jabba’s temper.”

Boba: “So I have your approval to proceed?”

Vader: “Don’t disappoint me.”

Slave 1 lands near Jabba’s palace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

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All fair ideas. Though whether or not the Sarlacc is alluded to, I expect the best version of the scene is the one which can best use pre-existing dialogue, and that’s not exactly my forte.

Though if anyone wants a custom background, for example changing the ESB chamber to something more 2nd Death Star-y, hit me up 😉

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

That’s a good approach too. But again, you’d have to explain how Boba knows they’ll be sent to the Sarlacc. If you don’t, then you’re left to infer just as much as you would be if you didn’t try to explain Boba’s plan to capture Luke in the first place.

You could just expand my initial exchange to give Boba a little more leeway.

Vader: Skywalker will come for his friend, Captain Solo. Bring him to me.

Boba: …If he survives.

Vader: I want him alive, bounty hunter, if possible…

Boba: As you wish.

I will admit that my ideas are a little biased toward Boba as a man of few words because I want both a Morrison or Wingreen option for his voice.

Obviously anyone can try and tackle this idea if they like it. But I do think I’m going to avoid using any modern footage for my own approach.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I appreciate and am enjoying everyone’s input so far!

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This might not work either, but to hammer in that idea that people don’t immediately die when they fall into the Sarlacc, what if during certain shots where we are close/can see the maw of the Sarlacc, we can hear the muffled cries of agony from the countless victims being digested inside? I don’t picture this as a major, in your face sound effect, just something that’s noticeable but subtle.

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NeverarGreat said:

I was thinking about your ideas last night, RL, and wonder if the Vader/Boba scene wouldn’t merely confuse as many things as it illumines. For example, now that Boba is explicitly on a mission to take Luke alive, it throws later events into a strange light such as Jabba trying to kill Luke first with the Rancor and then with the Sarlacc. In ESB Boba was concerned for Han’s safety since Jabba wanted Han alive, but in this Boba looks on mutely while Jabba tries to kill Luke. Granted, perhaps Jabba isn’t in on the scheme and is a loose cannon in Boba’s plan, but one would think that he would at least try to influence Jabba’s decisions.

This brings me to the idea: What if it is Boba’s intention to incapacitate Luke in the Sarlacc?

Boba clearly knows how difficult it is to trap a Jedi since even Vader couldn’t do it in ESB, so he would rely not merely on his own power nor on Jabba’s henchmen nor another failed Carbonite gambit. No, the only way he would see to bring in his quarry would be to turn Jabba’s entire force on the Jedi and force him into the most inescapable place on the planet, from which he could extricate his wounded quarry at his convenience.

But how to convey this plan? Probably the easiest way would be for there to be a schematic on Vader’s screen of the Sarlacc, or the shot from the Boba show where he hovers over the pit, distorted of course.

Vader: “You have something, bounty hunter?”
Boba: (Shows Sarlacc view)
Vader: “I want him alive.”
Boba: “If he’s a Jedi, he will survive.”
Vader: “Very well. Once you have Skywalker, bring him to me.”
Boba: “As you wish.”

If this scene worked, Boba’s fate would become absolutely poetic.

Boba can say his line from Battlefront 2015 to Jabba: “Don’t underestimate Skywalker”
Can be found here, around 2:37:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWL5Y4CuNnQ&list=PLPg_n48POo1UHcrAbuTc226lusE_wmV3D&index=54

With this line it shows that Boba knows that Luke will survive the Rancor pit

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Make The Emperor’s shuttle red or black to make it stand out.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

Star Wars has 3 eras:The eras are 1977-1983(pre Expanded Universe), (1983-2014) expanded universe or (2014- now) Disney bought version. Each are valid.

Important voice tool:
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1472151/action/topic#1472151

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I’m digging the Boba Fett ideas. Anything that helps integrate the start better is worth pursuing.

Also, damn, I wish the “Luke and Vader swap sabers” thing was doable. I figure it would be too much rotoscoping work, though.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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Just thinking about the source chat, I’m very ignorant of different versions, but isn’t Harmy’s Despecialised considered one of the best sources? Or 4K83 when it releases?

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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4K83 has been out for 3 and a half years!