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Color correcting the 2011 OT Blu Rays (* unfinished project *)

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 (Edited)

You Too’s recent excellent work on fixing the Blu Ray colors has inspired me to reverse engineer what was done to the DVD/Blu Ray releases that caused the colors to be so badly messed up. While he is on the right track and is getting good results, I feel it would be instructive to know WHY the colors are bad, as this leads to a less subjective and more scientific method to recovering the correct colors.

It turns out that the answer is quite simple.

Over the course of the next few weeks, I plan to detail the following:

1. Exacly what was done to the DVD (and Blu Ray) colors.

2. Why the colors are not perfectly recoverable.

3. How to recover the color as best as possible.

4. The tools required to do so.

Stay tuned…

-G

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Good idea! Though I can tell you it's going to be difficult. At least the part with recovering the colors. When experimenting with my color settings in different scenes I saw that reducing cyan in some scenes resulted in other scenes looking weird, and so on. Of course, what I did was to try and find the best way of using a setting for a whole movie, and of course some things won't look correct then, but at least better.

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g-force, it's a good cause, but unless you plan on documenting each shot individually, you won't be presenting an accurate accounting.  There is not a universal "thing" plaguing the Blu-Ray, by any stretch.  That many scenes appear to share certain qualities is coincidence, and even within that coincidence, vary wildly.

 

Most of what you're seeing with the Blu-Ray can be categorized by four classes: 1) Exposure issues, 2) Damaged element recovery, 3) Deliberate color grading, and 4) Lowry.

The exposure stuff I've explained before, in regards to the density of negative/film, and an improper handling of the gamma on the other side of an otherwise good scan.  As for #2, many elements had entire ranges of their color degraded, and you can spot instantly which color/elements were attempted to have things put back for.  The green lightsaber scene is a classic example.  In that sequence, watch the control panel in the foreground's colors, and notice when they suddenly change their entire nature.  Ditto a single shot in the sandcrawler over R2's shoulder where his green light panel suddenly shifts cyan.  That's element damage, where the film had gone green, and wasn't corrected for properly.  There's a ton of that, in various incarnations, all over the film.  You can learn to "feel" when the source had whole colors missing from it - the shots get a sort of sepia undertone to them.  Many Falcon cockpit over-the-shoulder shots suffer from this, where suddenly everything is sort of brown-ish, but other shots are fine. This is how lobster-men came about.  That's a compensation for damage in the elements; an attempt to correct one thing which has consequences elsewhere which nobody was watching or had time to correct for.

#3) is a huge category encompassing things like R2's ridiculously over-saturated blue; an attempt to match his appearance in later films, after which he was repainted using an entirely different process. So simply saturating his blue doesn't work, makes the frame look cartoony, and weirds out other things in the frame.

 

4) Lowry's process was immature compared to that work today.  LOTS of artifacts as a result.  Watch the Tatooine sand for 3 seconds and you'll see that with every successive frame it turns green, red, blue, yellow, etc.  Convert to LAB or YUV to really get a sense for color instability throughout the film as a result of that process.  It isn't on the negative that way, and it isn't on prints that way.  For an especially rough example, take the "go that way, you'll be malfunctioning in a day or two..." long shot of the two droids and keep an eye on R2's body.  Watch it pop and bounce in luminance and color.  For a real treat, examine the three channels on that shot separately and look how utterly fucked up the blue channel is.

 

Again, you will not find anything approaching a global set of adjustments which "explain" the blu-ray.  Like You_Too, you may find a setting which really helps, a lot of the time.  Your best bet in this is in regard to luminance.  You can globally correct luminance moreso than any other trait in the image.  But having restored this film from the 2004 DVD once, I can tell you that it ain't that simple.  Every scene has its own "thing."  I still wake up in the dark to the awful shifting tides of Tunisian sand dunes.

 

 

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

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mverta said:

Most of what you're seeing with the Blu-Ray can be categorized by four classes: 1) Exposure issues, 2) Damaged element recovery, 3) Deliberate color grading, and 4) Lowry.

This listing reads like the four layers of Hell to me for some reason.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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LOL, you are not kidding on the sand, if you just focus on the sand that is messed up, but you are right.

You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.

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mverta said:

Most of what you're seeing with the Blu-Ray can be categorized by four classes: 1) Exposure issues, 2) Damaged element recovery, 3) Deliberate color grading, and 4) Lowry.

 

_Mike

 The four layers of hell indeed. These I agree can't be corrected globally, but there is one more class that you didn't mention. Something that was done to EVERY single frame equally, probably very late in the color chain you describe. Believe me, I wish this were the magic bullet for all of the various and different color problems that have plagued every single home video release of this film, but this will shed light on the very top layer of the onion.

-G

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mverta wrote: but unless you plan on documenting each shot individually, you won't be presenting an accurate accounting.

In anticipation of a someone or a group attempting to do a shot by shot something, i've been creating a spreadsheet which lists every shot and people can take this and begin to document their progress.  Right now i'm using it to catalog revisions between home releases.  But if someone wants a column for color correction settings, it all can be incorporated.  (FYI: SW has the most progress, ESB just started and will get to the others in time)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Shot-List-Spreadsheet-v0206/topic/13403/

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none said:

mverta wrote: but unless you plan on documenting each shot individually, you won't be presenting an accurate accounting.

In anticipation of a someone or a group attempting to do a shot by shot something, i've been creating a spreadsheet which lists every shot and people can take this and begin to document their progress.  Right now i'm using it to catalog revisions between home releases.  But if someone wants a column for color correction settings, it all can be incorporated.  (FYI: SW has the most progress, ESB just started and will get to the others in time)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Shot-List-Spreadsheet-v0206/topic/13403/

 I have been admiring that spreadsheet for the past few days, none!

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You_Too said:

Good idea! Though I can tell you it's going to be difficult. At least the part with recovering the colors. When experimenting with my color settings in different scenes I saw that reducing cyan in some scenes resulted in other scenes looking weird, and so on. Of course, what I did was to try and find the best way of using a setting for a whole movie, and of course some things won't look correct then, but at least better.

 Thanks You_Too! I hope you don't think I was dissing your results, but I've been following your thread and like your results, and have been giving this a lot of thought thanks to you. Stay tuned.

-G

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timdiggerm said:

g-force said:

 this will shed light on the very top layer of the onion

Not sure why you haven't just told us instead of telling us you'll tell us.

Now you're the one telling us that g-force hasn't told us instead of telling us that he'll tell us...

... my head hurts.  I'm gonna lie down now.

Oh, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got to share g-force.  And thanks too, mverta, for the detailed analysis.

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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dark_jedi said:

You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.

Welcome to my world.

This signature uses Markdown syntax, which makes it easy to add formatting like italics, bold, and lists:

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dark_jedi said:

You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.

Man, that's been my problem ever since I started reading this site. It's all 005's fault! Matte lines...

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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timdiggerm said:



dark_jedi said:

You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.


Man, that's been my problem ever since I started reading this site. It's all 005's fault! Matte lines...
Imagine what it's like to be me and try to watch the movies again!*

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

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timdiggerm said:

g-force said:

 this will shed light on the very top layer of the onion

Not sure why you haven't just told us instead of telling us you'll tell us.

 Well, I just wanted to have some nice screenshots to share first, but how about a hint? The biggest problem with the DVD/BR colors is blue compression.

-G

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none said:

In anticipation of a someone or a group attempting to do a shot by shot something, i've been creating a spreadsheet which lists every shot and people can take this and begin to document their progress.

Yes, you've put together an amazing resource for longterm efforts like this.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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g-force said:

Thanks You_Too! I hope you don't think I was dissing your results, but I've been following your thread and like your results, and have been giving this a lot of thought thanks to you. Stay tuned.

No I don't think you're dissing anything! I made my thread simply to help people who wanted to work on preserving the movie(s), so naturally you are free to get new ideas from it.

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doubleofive said:

 

timdiggerm said:



dark_jedi said:

You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.


Man, that's been my problem ever since I started reading this site. It's all 005's fault! Matte lines...
Imagine what it's like to be me and try to watch the movies again!*

 

Yeah, I can only imagine how it must be.

It's not like the problems with the new home video versions is any news if you ever was familiar with the look of the original films. In 2004 everyone that knew and loved these films got a headache of how incompetent the transfer was, not that it looked different, but that it was handled in sush amateurish ways. The Empire Strikes Back SE even succeeds in such a rare occasion to crush black levels and blow out whites at the same time, not a bad accomplishment.

I sat down and watched a leak of the DVD version in 2004 with a couple of friends and I immediately asked my buddy if his system was calibrated correctly, and he said of course it is, and I seriously was ready to puke of what I saw but they thought I was weird to even comment on the colors as the resolution was so fucking amazing. I told them I couldn't watch that version even if I liked the stupid additions, simply told = I was a weirdo in their eyes, and I probably still is.

Anyway, some time has gone since that leak, and one of the guys who saw the DVD-leak with me that day said to me recently, "it seems that they still haven't fixed the colors." when he watched the blu-ray, funny that you are an idiot when mentioning something the first time, and then later you hear something is still wrong with the transfers...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Fucking A', I hate reading in-depth critiques of the video quality of the existing releases.... not that it's not good to know and that someone is working hard to correct it, it's just I can just never unsee it once I'm aware it's there. When it comes to this shit, ignorance is bliss a good 75% of the time. I blame Frink.

Mr. Mike Cooper delivered a dose of good shit here and it's blowing my ass out.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Stinky-Dinkins said: 

When it comes to this shit, ignorance is bliss a good 75% of the time. I blame Frink. 

I agree, everyone should blame Frink. ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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In Lowry's defense the final color grading was done before it was sent to them and fucked up by Lucas.  They were only given a 1080P master to work with its hard to recover detail that is not there, especially when you dvnr the hell out of a 1080 scan.  That was not even state of the art in 2004, despite the bs claims of the Lucas folks during the hype of the BD release.

Try that would have been state of the art circa 2001.

And would have been excusable for the dvd format because the sins of the dvnr would not show as bad.  To use that same master for the blu rays and not do a new 4k or 8k scan is laughable to say the least.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

Mr. Mike Cooper delivered a dose of good shit here and it's blowing my ass out.

 The guy seriously knows his stuff. Wish he would share the fruits of his labors, but his knowledge is good to have around.

-G

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skyjedi2005 said:

In Lowry's defense the final color grading was done before it was sent to them and fucked up by Lucas.  They were only given a 1080P master to work with its hard to recover detail that is not there, especially when you dvnr the hell out of a 1080 scan.  That was not even state of the art in 2004, despite the bs claims of the Lucas folks during the hype of the BD release.

Try that would have been state of the art circa 2001.

And would have been excusable for the dvd format because the sins of the dvnr would not show as bad.  To use that same master for the blu rays and not do a new 4k or 8k scan is laughable to say the least.

 Yeah, I'm pretty sure the only colors Lowry messed up are those ruined by the NR.

So how did the color choices get decided?

-G

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g-force said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Mr. Mike Cooper delivered a dose of good shit here and it's blowing my ass out.

 Wish he would share the fruits of his labors

 Well that's the fucking thing, isn't it...

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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msycamore said:

Stinky-Dinkins said: 

When it comes to this shit, ignorance is bliss a good 75% of the time. I blame Frink. 

I agree, everyone should blame Frink. ;)

Dammit, guys, now I have to read threads I have no interest in just to see who is blaming me for what?

;-)