jonathan7 said:
(I) think possibly a combination of that (Spence's Final Cut) and Dan's father son edit, would be the way to see this project forward...
I haven't been following this thread but I'd love to see this attempted. ^
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Here is the longer trailer I have been working on. As I said a lot of the choices reflect my personal choices more than they reflect the votes, but I just wanted to practise with After Effects and this seemed as good a way as any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPPAjNK7cQ&feature=youtu.be
The shots aren't all finished, but I just wanted to get something together to try and get a bit more discussion going here again. Let me know what you think.
Johannus said:
Here is the longer trailer I have been working on. As I said a lot of the choices reflect my personal choices more than they reflect the votes, but I just wanted to practise with After Effects and this seemed as good a way as any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPPAjNK7cQ&feature=youtu.be
The shots aren't all finished, but I just wanted to get something together to try and get a bit more discussion going here again. Let me know what you think.
And It's already blocked... :(
emanswfan said:
Johannus said:
Here is the longer trailer I have been working on. As I said a lot of the choices reflect my personal choices more than they reflect the votes, but I just wanted to practise with After Effects and this seemed as good a way as any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPPAjNK7cQ&feature=youtu.be
The shots aren't all finished, but I just wanted to get something together to try and get a bit more discussion going here again. Let me know what you think.
And It's already blocked... :(
It was likely blocked before it was even done uploading.
It's all Fox's fault....they're jealous....they're holding us back!
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
How odd, it still loads for me, I will try uploading a version without sound, hopefully that will slip through undetected.
Right here it is on Vimeo.
Johannus said:
How odd, it still loads for me, I will try uploading a version without sound, hopefully that will slip through undetected.
Since it's your account, you can still watch it, but no one else can.
And, it's probably the video that got it blocked, not the audio.
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
Davnes007 said:
Since it's your account, you can still watch it, but no one else can.
And, it's probably the video that got it blocked, not the audio.
Yeah I guessed it was the audio because I have made changes to the video and it has been recompressed a few times whereas I did very little with the audio, but youtube wants to be silly about these things so I've got a vimeo account so will use that from now on.
That looks pretty fun, Johannus, though I admit I broke out laughing when I saw Chewie yanking that stormtrooper around! Perhaps this can reignite interest. I have a feeling some more recruiting will need to take place, as well as some speaking with folks who still seem to be on board. Let me ask, are you willing to take over for a time as the coordinator of the project? I know you're busy, but do you think you could get people motivated for even a short time? I haven't given up on this project, though I personally can't push it anymore at the present.
To be honest I'm not sure thats a good idea. As flattered as I am with the offer I feel I would have a different idea to many of the ways this thread has already decided to take the project. Just look at those cilps, many are changes I want to see rather than things we specifically agreed by voting on.
I think I see this as a place where I will contribute what I can when I can, and it is most likely I will focus most heavily on the changes I consider as being a part of my personal edit. Whether I ever end up making a whole edit of my own who knows, but in the meantime I am happy to share anything I do create with the team here and chip in as and when I can.
I think the problem here is we had a lot of chatter when we were brainstorming, so it all seemed incredibly popular. However, with each refinement some people's ideas slipped away and gradually so would the people. Then, what was the editing team would be left to do all the work, and in some cases it was working towards ideas they disagreed with, so the passion for it thinned. Then someone like Ron who spent a lot of time working with his editting found himself needing a break from it, so maybe it was all a little too much too fast. Why don't we essentially go back to the drawing board, and instead of worrying about hashing out a finished script or a finished edit, see if we can't finish off a few scenes we mostly agreed on.
For example I would love to have a go at trying to put a few more ships into the space battle like we spoke about before, but whenever I go to start it I get put off by how many new ships we wanted, mixed with just how unspecific we were about where to include them, it was so vague I don't know where to start.
If we discuss that we can be working on clips and things as we chat and hopefully if we talk enough we would end up with almost enough clips to put into the film and end up with a new edit with relatively little work towards the end.
What do you think?
That would be a good hope. If the editing team simply worked on a few shots or scenes, in the end it could be pieced together as desired. Perhaps the vote thing gave some direction, but perhaps it also lost too many's interest, as you pointed out. I think if you simply put ships wherever you wanted them, that would be fine for everyone else. That was my hope initially, anyway. I simply wanted the editors to have a great deal of latitude to use their own creative juices as desired. Whatever you want to do, wherever you want to put it, do it! Then share :)
If I may offer a quick two cents; it seems to me the projects became too ambition interlaced with too many idea's, which may or may not be possible. It perhaps needs one person to go through, with a few others with the skills needed and they decide what to do;
I think a good rule of thumb would perhaps be if someone is working on a scene it's upto them what they do. So for example Johannus, what extra ships would you like to add? The only caviate to that is if an idea effects the plot elsewhere in the film...
My 2 cents...
"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore
"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 said:
I think a good rule of thumb would perhaps be if someone is working on a scene it's upto them what they do. So for example Johannus, what extra ships would you like to add? The only caviate to that is if an idea effects the plot elsewhere in the film...
I agree with this. As I said I already made changes to scenes based on how I thought it worked best, in some cases disregarding the vote. But with the battle in particular I find it very hard to know where to start. I had the idea before of trying to extend existing shots then add some of the new ships in there (like my B-Wing test video), but that didn't seem to go down that well, which suggests either adding new shots with the new ships, in which case they could go anywhere and do anything, again a very wide scope and I think the biggest thing to keep in mind in that case would be how the film flows. Or alternatively the ships could just be added in the backgrounds of existing shots, which though possibly easier to do, might lead to them becoming barely noticable to anyone who isn't told they are there. This would fulfill the subtlety I think we wanted, but it would also seem a bit of a shame after spending the necessary time rotoscoping.
Do you think it could be worth making a rough storyboard of the battle so we can have a better idea of how people think the new shots would work or would that be unnecessary? Am I the only one that finds this sequence hard to imagine properly?
Johannus said:
I agree with this. As I said I already made changes to scenes based on how I thought it worked best, in some cases disregarding the vote. But with the battle in particular I find it very hard to know where to start. I had the idea before of trying to extend existing shots then add some of the new ships in there (like my B-Wing test video), but that didn't seem to go down that well, which suggests either adding new shots with the new ships, in which case they could go anywhere and do anything, again a very wide scope and I think the biggest thing to keep in mind in that case would be how the film flows. Or alternatively the ships could just be added in the backgrounds of existing shots, which though possibly easier to do, might lead to them becoming barely noticable to anyone who isn't told they are there. This would fulfill the subtlety I think we wanted, but it would also seem a bit of a shame after spending the necessary time rotoscoping.
Do you think it could be worth making a rough storyboard of the battle so we can have a better idea of how people think the new shots would work or would that be unnecessary? Am I the only one that finds this sequence hard to imagine properly?
I think a story board would be a good idea... I can offer a couple of suggestions for you to think about; it would seem to me to crank up the tension we could see quite a few rebel ships destroyed. (Possibly add the additional fighters cock-pit shots). Generally I think the more subtle approach may be easier...
However I would also suggest it would also make sense for the battle not to turn until the Emperor is killed... At that point things turn around. I'd also suggest a more fitting end for the Executor; perhaps have one of the Mon-Calamari ships ram the whole bridge section?
I'd still be a huge fan of having the Emporer arrive on a Super-star destroyer... I did like what Spence's idea (though not seen it) with having The Emporer, Vader and Luke there instead of on the Death Star.
Anyways, a few thoughts ;-)
"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore
"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 said:
it would seem to me to crank up the tension we could see quite a few rebel ships destroyed. (Possibly add the additional fighters cock-pit shots). Generally I think the more subtle approach may be easier...
However I would also suggest it would also make sense for the battle not to turn until the Emperor is killed... At that point things turn around. I'd also suggest a more fitting end for the Executor; perhaps have one of the Mon-Calamari ships ram the whole bridge section?
I like your suggestions about showing the rebel ships being destroyed, and the way the battle turns. Could we maybe make it seem like the imperials success is hinged on a few large ships like the Executor, and obviously the Death Star, so if those can be taken out it is believable the rebels can win?
As for the way the Executor is taken down, I'd thought maybe keep the sequence of Akbar ordering all fire on the super star destroyer, and everything up to the A-Wing crashing through and taking it down, then the Executor crashing down onto the Death Star, but adding additional shots to make the actual assault of the Executor take longer. For example we could show larger rebel ships moving alongside to attack it too, then show other fighters attacking too, then once its weakened the A-wing crashes through, causes a large explosion, and the ship begins to fall to the death star. Or something along those lines. That way we get to add more new ships, see more of the Executor, and see some larger ships fighting side by side.
jonathan7 said:
I'd still be a huge fan of having the Emporer arrive on a Super-star destroyer... I did like what Spence's idea (though not seen it) with having The Emporer, Vader and Luke there instead of on the Death Star.
I've seen this and as an idea I thought it worked great, but I think the actual execution would need to be improved because the establishing shot of the Executor is very brief and it doesn't make it obvious the Emperor is meant to be there, in my opinion at least. However, as I said, the idea that the Emperor is somewhere else really makes us understand why Luke would have to go there to take him on, rather than just let the Death Star blow up and finish him off.
Johannus said:
I like your suggestions about showing the rebel ships being destroyed, and the way the battle turns. Could we maybe make it seem like the imperials success is hinged on a few large ships like the Executor, and obviously the Death Star, so if those can be taken out it is believable the rebels can win?
I think this could possibly also solve the issue of how the inferior rebel fleet beats the much larger one. So for example; lets you have three command "ships", Death Star, Eclipse and Executor, when all three are destroyed who's in charge? With all three taken down, the imperial organisation falls apart.
This is also why earlier I had suggested seeing imperial ships firing on each other. (Others didn't like the idea, which I'm fine with) as different commanders try to assume control of the Empire, with so many of it's overall leaders dead.
If that makes sense?
"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore
"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
Yeah I think the idea of them turning on one another would work great in a tv series version of Star Wars, or even perhaps if the film series went up to 9 so you could have a little more depth. But as it stands I think to do that idea justice you would need to give it a bit of screentime, and in doing so it would lessen the sequence where the Death Star goes bang, as that is pretty much the symbol of the rebel victory.
In theory I like the idea though, I just don't know how we could do it without messing up the pacing.
So I just thought I better give some kind of update on this. Without better organization or a budget or folks with more time, this probably couldn't easily happen at the present. I feel like there is a great deal of interest in a project of this nature.
But clearly this project has come to a halt and I feel my role has largely ended as well. My final exam is on Monday, and after that I will try to complete the updated script based on the most recent vote. From there, I will put the script up in the script-writing section, and hopefully it can serve as an inspiration for multitudes of OT.com patrons. Perhaps someone else can pick up the torch of this project and run with it. But in the end, it's not all a big waste. It was a creative project filled with numerous ideas that can perhaps be used to inspire future edits. Even the method of creating this edit may inspire a future, more successful collaborative edit.
I loved this thread. I loved this idea. In a sense, I've given up on it. In another sense, I hope to see it come to pass. In any case, I feel it wasn't a waste. Let me tell you why:
I think there are two primary successes to be had from this thread:
1) There is great interest in a collaborative project. Many people working together could surely get a great deal done. It could get done faster, and it could be more thorough and radical. I know that Adywan and others have some collaboration in their work, but I think this could be taken even further with marvelous potential.
2) Return of the Jedi is a good film (IMO) regardless of whatever silliness doesn't appeal to others. but together, through discussion and debate, we've created an interesting potential edit, with many other ideas floating around that could be utilized, even if they're not in the script drafts I put out. Many fascinating thoughts were stated. The people here are brilliant at coming up with ideas.
I appreciate all the work others put into it. I really did enjoy watching videos like Johannus's trailer and Ronster's concept film. I like the mockup pictures and aalenfae's Anakin force ghost ending. There is so much to love about this project, as much of a failure as it may seem in the end. I never wanted to lead this project anyway. I merely wanted to inspire others to do it. I have a few more thoughts regarding its future:
1) I am finishing the script, somewhat based on the last vote, but admittedly taking a few liberties and changes. Some things just don't work for me. All the details you guys needed has been included, including the last vote. I will upload my final script very soon, because I really am working on it, and not merely saying that I'll get around to it.
2) I will post that and several links into my signature. My signature will be around even after I've lost interest in this site. Hopefully some future editor will find my script, your videos and mockups, this thread full of so many ideas. Hopefully that editor will be inspired but what he sees, and will make many of our ideas come to life. I have my doubts that Adywan is interested in the direction we took with many of these ideas, but perhaps even he might get some inspiration out of it.
3) There are two fan films out there that have a lot of potential for us: SW:THX and Tydirium (too lazy to find trailers right now). THX appears to still be at least semi-active, and Tydirium's site indicated perhaps it is restarting work. If either of these is ever completed, they offer great footage that could be wonderful for our edit. I'm watching Daneditor's work on his unreleased ROTJ edit (he made an edit that he released on FE.org, but this one is more experimental). He uses various lower-quality clips from numerous sources, and to surprising effect. Just imagining how it could look with a better source from a completed fan film makes me excited. Hopefully these see the light of day, and then editors will have much more to work with.
At the end of the day, I still love this film, and hope to see a completed, wonderful edit. Who knows when that will be, but I believe something great can come of it. Thanks to everyone who worked on it with me. You were a good bunch.
I really look forward to that script.
I've been meaning to post a message about Tydirium's relaunch. If that fan film ever gets released it will be HUGE for us. ROTJ edits will never be the same again.
Yes indeed. They look very promising, and while not all the effects are great, many of them are surprisingly good. Hopefully these folks finish their work one day.
Lose interest in this site? How...dare you?
You know, when you die in the next year or two, your jokes will cease. That's the biggest draw to this site after all. Please check yourself into a nursing home so you can keep me here as long as possible.