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.: Citizen's NTSC DVD / PAL DVD / XviD project :. (Released) — Page 5

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I just don't mind changing discs, and it's not that 3,50 euros is a lot of money, but it is over 15 (!!!) times as much as a single layer disc costs me, I refuse to buy it. Not that I'm a cheap guy, I have one SW LD set and am on my way to a second one. But let's stick to the thread. Can't wait to see it!

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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In with the haul of office clearance stuff I've got to sell or throw away was a 650mhz P3 laptop which I'm hoping to keep for myself (just needs a new battery) and I've been testing video clips on it, importantly my DVD transfer of ANH which for some reason looks incredibly grainy on the laptop's LCD, moreso than on my tv, CRT monitors & LCD projector, I want to put it down to cheap graphics chipset in the laptop but Shrek 2 looks great on the laptop's screen.
I get the feeling LCD screens are very unforgiving with non-DVD sourced video, while watching other stuff in DivX/XviD on the laptop I noticed you could see the compression blocks easily whilst on a normal tv or CRT they look fine, incedentally the 1024 pixel with XviD test clip of ROTJ looks great on the laptop.
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Distribution Idea:
People with DL burners can volunteer as burners for one of the movies, and hopefully we could get 2 or more people per movie. Then anyone who wanted a copy could either:
A) Get one sent from the burners in exchange for them becoming a burner for that movie
B) Send the burner a blank DL DVD with return postage, address, and such
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Because I'm still busy with trying to clear a shedload of stuff I can't work on the menus/extras for ANH so I'm encoding the XviD version of ANH right now because I don't need to do any mastering just encode, then I'll post a copy or two to people who can upload it to usenet/torrent. Because the filesize will probably be over 4gb you won't be able to view it on a 95/98 system, it's for XP/2000 systems - no complaining! it's my release and I'll encde it how I want
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Cool can't wait to see you xvid, should be damn nice.

I can help you upload to a.b.starwars. And also get it to rikter and/or dark_jedi, both can get it to other people that can upload at myspleen.
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Great stuff, I've just uploaded an 80 second sample from the encode:


SW-ANH-Citizen-sample.avi - 43.2mb, XviD compressed, 2.0 AC3 audio (direct off the NTSC DVD version), 23.976fps, 1024x436 resolution


It looks so much better on my PC 1024x768 res projector than the NTSC DVD encode on a software player, I think the XviD compression helps remove some of the grain.

Just remembered I'm going to have to update that AviSynth image overlay script to cope with image masks because I'll have to burn-in Greedo's subtitles over the picture for this release, which means more subtitle work, ugh.
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Wow, looks great. Just watched it on my 16:9 Panny LCD proj (via 1:1 pixel mapping from a Mac G4) and am really impressed. The PAL discs make all the difference. I have yet to see an NTSC sourced set that is pleasant to watch on the projector. Very nice job.
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Citizen, wouldn't it be possible just to release it with an SRT file and an EXE file to install DirectVobSub?
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Hmm, was thinking about trying an SRT file but I've had bad troubles with subtitle overlaying with avis (it was probably DirectVobSub) but not with ffdshow which I was planning on putting in with the release because it can handle the XviD and AC3 decoding in a single program instead of having to install separate codecs, because it can do subtitles too I'll have a go at making an SRT file.
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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A couple comments on the Xvid clip (and I would completely ignore me if I were you since it's great).

4000+kbps is insane. Xvid is a much more optimized codec than mpeg2 and doesn't need this at all. Anything over about 2000 at that resolution is a complete waste. Heck the resolution is a overblown chewing up more bitrate than necessary too. You have to consider your source's resolution: you gain nothing adding lines that just aren't there. You could use 3/4 of the resolution without losing any original PAL lines and then set the bitrate to half and see no difference in quality with bitrate to spare.

My other concern is that the audio is a bit soft. Probably a result of the -32db normalization that is typically applied to ac3 audio for DVDs.
It's fine for standalone DVD players but too low for a PC. If you have the raw PCM audio and are sticking with 2 channels, the Xvid version would probably benefit from a good VBR mp3 encoding instead. Something like lame's --alt-preset insane. Ac3 is only useful on a PC for anything more than 2 channels.

Dr. M

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4000+kbps is not insane when you have 4.3gb available space on a DVD-R, plus the higher the bitrate the less compression (the source video is 30gb remember) and smaller blocks used to compress the frames, especially important when you're going to view the video on a 5 foot wide screen where any compression artefacts stick out like a sore thumb.

As for AC3, I tried comparing a clip of video with AC3 and then wav and the only difference I noticed was that the AC3 audio was slightly quieter but nothing significant.

The XviD file has now been created and I muxed the AC3 with it but oddly my media player crashes when you try to skip to any part of the video, so I re-encoded the audio as 256kbps mp3 using VirtualDub and there's zero problems with skipping to any part of the video. Plus there's good news for W95/W98 users, the final file came out at 4.02gb so I re-compressed the end credits slightly smaller, the full resulting file is now 3.99gb and plays fine on my Win98 PC. Now to do the subtitles...
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Hey Citizen,

Reply back to my email when you get a chance. I would love to help you out. I have a DL burner as well.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish then with the Xvid version. It's not more portable (for distribution) than a DVD and it's quality won't be any better (or worse). You basically have just made a second DVD version that's largely standalone player incompatible.

A 2 CD Xvid version would have been a great idea for portability and quality.
I guess I'll just say 'whatever' and get your DVD version when that's out.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Doctor M
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish then with the Xvid version.
Two words which you should've picked up on by now if you'd read this thread: my projector.
t's not more portable (for distribution) than a DVD and it's quality won't be any better (or worse).
No that is incrrect, the XviD version looks much better played back on a PC screen with plain Windows Media player than the anamorphic DVD encode on a software DVD player - before the video is scaled to resolutions for DVD & XviD it's at a square pixel width of 1280, upscaled that that resolution using an edge directed resampler so the picture looks clearer than using bicubic or lanczos3 resizing.
It's not meant to be more portable (for distrubition) because it's meant for me for my 1024 pixel width projector, but because other people seem to want copies I'm sending a couple out.
You basically have just made a second DVD version that's largely standalone player incompatible.

It's not another DVD version, just because something is stored on a DVD it doesn't automatically make it a DVD in the sense that you can just put it into a DVD player and watch it, DVD-R just happens to be the cheapest and easiest way of storing the XviD version.
A 2 CD Xvid version would have been a great idea for portability and quality.
I guess I'll just say 'whatever' and get your DVD version when that's out.

Yes, "whatever".



DarkGruson, sorry I didn't see the 2nd email from you, been busy with eBay auctions (got two dozen ending right now) and despite my ISP having spam filtering there's still a ton getting through
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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No I see where you are going with it, and that's fine. It just seems pretty random since it's basically optimized for a not so common set-up.

You could of course just hold off a few months and do a true HD version with HD-DVD or BluRay.
Now that's something I could get behind.

Dr. M

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I thought they said the next generation of storage medium was going to be here in a few months, a few months ago? I'm not waiting around for new format that when it's finally released will cost the earth and won't be widespread - that's partly why I'm doing normal DVD versions in PAL and NTSC formats (only doing the NTSC format for the poor people who can't play PAL ), as for the unconventionality of my XviD version, well Star Wars was a pretty unconventional film when it was made...
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Highly doubt that HD formats will be out before december, they were to come out last year about this time too. Not to mention you would have to pick which format to use, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Since once again they can not decide to agree on one format (Betamax vs VHS, DVD-r vs DVD+r).
Clouded by the darkside HD is.
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One more thing, I hate the 2 cd xvids, I like thing in one place not two! Two inkjet-printable cds cost more then one inkjet-printable dvd.
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You've been buying your printable CDs from the wrong places if two cost more than a one DL DVD+R !


The XviD ANH is completed and a copy on it's way to segaflip, the NTSC DVD is getting quite near completion, film audio+video is done, just set to on encoding the extras footage tonight for the both the PAL & NTSC versions (easier to do both at the same time) which means now I know what's going to be on the ANH disc I can work on the menus. Not looking forward to doing the chapter stops though, the one part of authoring DVDs that annoys me, don't know wether to spend ages duplicating the stops on one of my laserdisc sets or make my own, think I'll make my own.

I'll order some DL discs on tuesday when I got some money coming in - both the NTSC & PAL ANH DVDs are getting that close to completion.
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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You've been buying your printable CDs from the wrong places if two cost more than a one DL DVD+R !
Sorry I ment on SL dvd-r, Ridata G05, then again I have not bought CDr in over a year.

Anyways dont mean to fill Citizen thread with junk about prices. You can expect his xvid to hit a.b.starwars when I get it. I will also get a copy to Rikter if need be.
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DVD chapters are an ass pain.

Like I mentioned before, for my set I used ChapterXtractor, ripped the chapter stops from Farsight's disc (with a correction factor for the start of the first chapter), imported the chapters into my authoring software and then just manually twiddled each chapter to get them closer to correct.

I did 81 stops for ANH and it took MUCH less time then it normally would.

Dr. M

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Can't wait for it to hit usenet - I really wanna see how it turned out.
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I think we all do. Seeing and working with Moth3r's gave a great taste as to how good a PAL capture can be.

Dr. M

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You guys are in for a REAL treat with Citizen's version. One of the best for sure...if not THE best.

Doctor M's wheel version is also very nice.

I will have to compare the two one day soon!

Check your mail soon Citizen! Going out tomorrow.