Hello all!
I’ve been looking at the amazing restoration of Cinderella 4K, it seems that we see all the detailis from the original paintings. However, I find the image quite dark compared to some cells scans I’ve found online. Any thoughts? - The Cell is on the left, and the 4K version is on the right.
Are you sure you had HDR on when you capped the images?
Yeah, the 4K disc doesn’t look nearly as muted. Those stills are from the HDR master, yes, but they haven’t been adjusted to be displayed on an SDR monitor. Properly mapped, this is what the new transfer actually looks like:
“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu
Oh those screen captures are beautiful! I am not sure I understand… what do you mean by “properly mapped” ?
what do you mean by “properly mapped” ?
Converted, really. This is known as HDR to SDR “tone mapping.” The long and short of it is that when you try playing HDR content on a monitor or device that can’t correctly display the REC.2020 color space (which is the color space that just about every 4K disc uses for the feature film), it spits out a gray, washed-out image. So you either do the obvious and upgrade your devices to those with HDR display capabilities or convert the HDR content in question to 8-bit standard dynamic range (SDR) video with a REC.709 color space, allowing you to watch it on just about any device with no significant display or color issues.
That latter scenario would be the solution if you want to watch, say, the newly-remastered Prince of Egypt in 4K, but on an SDR monitor because the standard 1080p Blu-ray does not carry an SDR version of the new transfer. (Which it does not.)
1998/2018 1080p Transfer
2023 4K Transfer [Tone mapped from HDR Blu-ray]
“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu
@TonyWDA Why is the one all the way at the top still brighter even though you made your uhd caps a bit brighter than the original poster uhd caps?
Are you referring to the Gus Gus animation cel that ykarus1974 posted? Cel auction photos typically look that bright for a couple of reasons; the auctioneer usually wants to put the cel’s color density on full display and give potential bidders the best idea of the frame’s overall condition. Hence, they jack up the light over the artwork to an appropriate level. Also, and I can’t stress this next part enough, animation cels designed for Technicolor photography and photochemical processing, by themselves, rarely reflect how they actually look in the final film— especially those taken under questionable lighting conditions to make a sale. You’ll notice, for example, that Gus’ nose and shoes are a darker shade in the HDR grading than the cel photo.
Now, whether or not that shot was meant to look so conservatively lit in the original color timing is up for debate. Still, in the case of that auction photo (as well as the others shown), it’s brighter to leave little to the imagination of potential buyers, not necessarily because that’s how that scene was meant to look. Hope this helps.
“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu
Thank you so much for all your input, this really helps 😃 😃 Now i have to find a way to convert the movie to Rec709 color space… any suggestion?
My deaer sir, if you are watching on an sdr monitor you would be best served by the normal bluray release of the film not the uhd bluray.
good point 😃 thanks!
Are you referring to the Gus Gus animation cel that ykarus1974 posted? Cel auction photos typically look that bright for a couple of reasons; the auctioneer usually wants to put the cel’s color density on full display and give potential bidders the best idea of the frame’s overall condition. Hence, they jack up the light over the artwork to an appropriate level. Also, and I can’t stress this next part enough, animation cels designed for Technicolor photography and photochemical processing, by themselves, rarely reflect how they actually look in the final film— especially those taken under questionable lighting conditions to make a sale. You’ll notice, for example, that Gus’ nose and shoes are a darker shade in the HDR grading than the cel photo.
Now, whether or not that shot was meant to look so conservatively lit in the original color timing is up for debate. Still, in the case of that auction photo (as well as the others shown), it’s brighter to leave little to the imagination of potential buyers, not necessarily because that’s how that scene was meant to look. Hope this helps.
Oh I didn’t think in motion it would look exactly like the animation cels just your caps even though are brighter are missing color the cels have. I was just saying does the uhd blu ray get close to as bright look wise because the uhd still looks too dim not expecting it to look as bright as the cels just a balance.
Oh those screen captures are beautiful! I am not sure I understand… what do you mean by “properly mapped” ?
You treated the images as if they were REC709 which is a small REC709/sRGB color gamut and SDR dynamic range, but the images were stored as full REC2020 which has a wide REC2020 color gamut and HDR dynamic range. If you do that then the colors become very dull since the same coordinates in REC2020 gamut in REC709/sRGB gamut are much to close to unsaturated and not far enough out and also the black and white points are different so it looks dull and low in contrast. You need use something like MadvR and set it to playback converting to REC709.
what do you mean by “properly mapped” ?
Converted, really. This is known as HDR to SDR “tone mapping.” convert the HDR content in question to 8-bit standard dynamic range (SDR) video with a REC.709 color space
Which software did you use to convert Prince of Egypt to get this image?:
2023 4K Transfer [Tone mapped from HDR Blu-ray]
I also want to get properly mapped results from HD Blu-ray and what you show is fantastic.
I would definitely want to know how you did that as well, i would like to convert my Cinderella 4K 😃
Which software did you use to convert Prince of Egypt to get this image?:
2023 4K Transfer [Tone mapped from HDR Blu-ray]
I also want to get properly mapped results from HD Blu-ray and what you show is fantastic.
HDR to SDR conversion can be done in DaVinci Resolve, which is how I do it.
Project creator and film enthusiast.
awesome, thanks! i do have DaVinci but i am not sure where i can find that conversion option… is it some kind of filter I add to the image?
thanks for your help!
It’s in the color management tab. Select to convert from Rec2020 to Rec709 after selecting ACES.
Project creator and film enthusiast.
Ok thanks 😃
i think this video can also help me 😃
in the color management, should I chose Color Version : ACEScc or ACEScct ? and what version ? ACES 1.0.3? or 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
thanks so much, i really appreciate 😃
Ok this is what I did and i think the colors are the same as the screencaptures I found online :
Import in Davinci Resolve
Drag video in timeline
in Proprieties (clic wheel bottom right)
Color Management :
Color science : ACEScc
ACES vrsion : ACES 1.2
ACES input Transform : Rec.2020 ST2084 (2000 nits)
ACES output Transform : Rec.709
Any other suggestions?
No. That’s always how I do it. Except sometimes I do minor addition correction to contrast or brightness afterwards to look more appealing.
Project creator and film enthusiast.
No. That’s always how I do it. Except sometimes I do minor addition correction to contrast or brightness afterwards to look more appealing.
awesome, well that’s a good start of the week, thank you so much!!!
in the color management, should I chose Color Version : ACEScc or ACEScct ? and what version ? ACES 1.0.3? or 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
thanks so much, i really appreciate 😃
Very interesting. I haven’t used DaVinci Resolve in years. So this doesn’t make any difference?
Does it matter if you choose ACEScc or ACEScct? Does it matter if you choose 1.0.3, 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
in the color management, should I chose Color Version : ACEScc or ACEScct ? and what version ? ACES 1.0.3? or 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
thanks so much, i really appreciate 😃
Very interesting. I haven’t used DaVinci Resolve in years. So this doesn’t make any difference?
Does it matter if you choose ACEScc or ACEScct? Does it matter if you choose 1.0.3, 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
I haven’t notice any difference but there might be one, i am using my laptop. To give you an idea of the result. Send me a pm so i can give you a link to download a segment 😃
in the color management, should I chose Color Version : ACEScc or ACEScct ? and what version ? ACES 1.0.3? or 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
thanks so much, i really appreciate 😃
Very interesting. I haven’t used DaVinci Resolve in years. So this doesn’t make any difference?
Does it matter if you choose ACEScc or ACEScct? Does it matter if you choose 1.0.3, 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3?
I haven’t notice any difference but there might be one, i am using my laptop. To give you an idea of the result. Send me a pm so i can give you a link to download a segment 😃
Ok, sent.