logo Sign In

Chewie's Debt

Author
Date
Author
Time
Post link

Who came up with the 'life-debt' concept between Chewie and Han? When was that added?

I've never liked the idea. It takes Chewie from a capable and intelligent partner to Han Solo, and makes him a servant. It places him as subordinate to Han, and makes his race seem backwards. (Luke 'owes' Han his life twice, but doesn't have the backwards notion he has to be Han's servant. Human's are too advanced for that).

At best it makes Chewie a 'noble savage' type, with all of the racist and imperialist (no pun intended) baggage that carries. The debt also carries over to Chewbacca's kids... who are apparently hereditary slaves of the Solo clan, despite how many times Chewbacca might have saved a Solo's life.

I don't beleive there's a hint of 'life debt' in the movies. I just see two partners and friends who are equals.  

And let me add, no matter how the Han Solo character treats or views Chewbacca, it has no bearing on my opinion that the 'lifedebt' demeans the Chewbacca character and the Wookiee race.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

I can't say definitively where it came from, but I knew about it for as long as I can remember. I used to act out Han rescuing Chewie from slavers with my Kenner action figures when I was a kid, (the slavers consisted of a couple of Jawas, a Tusken Raider, a Rodian, Snaggletooth, three Stormtroopers, a Deathstar Droid, and Walrusman, and of course the whole thing was masterminded by none other than Darth Vader with his insanely short telescoping lightsaber that was built right into his arm. Damn, I miss those days.) So it is definitely Pre-90's EU. Since my only non-movie exposure of SW as a kid was the comic books, I am betting that I got it from them.

I think the 'noble savage' is what GL was aiming for with Chewie. I think he was suppose to be to Han what Tonto was to the Lone Ranger. If you are old enough to remember The Lone Ranger, you might remember that Tonto followed The Lone Ranger around after he saved his life. I don't think there was a life debt in Tonto's case, it is simple what he chose to do. Tonto was always depicted as intelligent and an equal to the Lone Ranger, and that is always sort of the relationship I have seen between Han and Chewie.

I think I do recall some EU books talking about how even Chewie's descendants are obligated to protect Han with their lives (or maybe it was that Chewie was obligated to protect Han's decendants). That is a pretty crappy setup. Doesn't really make Han much better than the slavers he is suppose to have recued him from.

I also never liked the Chewbacca family situation that originated from the Holiday Special, where Chewie leaves his family to go follow Han around the galaxy and only comes to visit once a year or so. This makes him out to be a pretty lousy husband and father, and I always prefered to see him as a rather upright and honorable kind of guy (well, other than the whole smuggler/criminal thing).

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
Post link
C3PX said:

I can't say definitively where it came from, but I knew about it for as long as I can remember. I used to act out Han rescuing Chewie from slavers with my Kenner action figures when I was a kid, (the slavers consisted of a couple of Jawas, a Tusken Raider, a Rodian, Snaggletooth, three Stormtroopers, a Deathstar Droid, and Walrusman, and of course the whole thing was masterminded by none other than Darth Vader with his insanely short telescoping lightsaber that was built right into his arm. Damn, I miss those days.) So it is definitely Pre-90's EU. Since my only non-movie exposure of SW as a kid was the comic books, I am betting that I got it from them.

I think the 'noble savage' is what GL was aiming for with Chewie. I think he was suppose to be to Han what Tonto was to the Lone Ranger. If you are old enough to remember The Lone Ranger, you might remember that Tonto followed The Lone Ranger around after he saved his life. I don't think there was a life debt in Tonto's case, it is simple what he chose to do. Tonto was always depicted as intelligent and an equal to the Lone Ranger, and that is always sort of the relationship I have seen between Han and Chewie.

 So true about those great toys. sigh.

I dont object to the Han/Chewie/Slaver origin story. I just don't like the lifedebt. Heroes save eachother all the time.

Maybe 'noble' was what Lucas is going for (if he came up with the Lifedebt that it), but to me when two people are unequal because the animal-like one has a kooky religion that makes him subservient, that seems a little racist. (or speciesist... whatever. Definitly not egalitarian).   

I'm not a guy who sees racism everywhere (I hate Jar-Jar and the Nemoidians for many reasons, but not because I think they're racist). I hate the lifedebt because it exists just to make sure the two characters are not really equals. It's even worse the more writers insist that Han really doesn't hold Chewie to the lifedebt, or think of Chewie that way, because now it's not only an unequal relationship, it's a condescending relationship, "There's this monkey over there who insists on being my butler! I try to tell him no, that I believe in equality and he doesn't have to be my servant, but he won't let up. He thinks it's his place. How quaint.'

Can you imagine it the other way? Han saying that he owes the nonlinguistic hairy animal his loyallty and service because Chewie saved his life?

(not getting on your case C3PX, just continuing the ranting)

Author
Time
Post link

I'm pretty sure the Life-debt originated in the Brian Daley Han Solo books. How Han and Chewie hooked up was kept somewhat vague at the time, although it was suggested Han got kicked out of the Imperial Navy as a result. Later books by other authors finally went into the details.

The whole slaver rescue angle comes from 1978's "The Wookiee Storybook" which marks the first time Chewie's family made it into print.

http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/wookstory07.jpg

They pop up again in a post ROTJ Marvel issue in the 80's, in spite of not having been mentioned in the comics before. ;)

The interesting thing is, in the Daley novels and early Marvel issues, Chewie comes off as being single. Chewie flirts with the ladies in a cantina in the comics.  And in one of the novels, he and Han actually go off on a sort of picnic/date with some university students. I doubt Malla would have approved! ;)

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link
SilverWook said:

The whole slaver rescue angle comes from 1978's "The Wookiee Storybook" which marks the first time Chewie's family made it into print.

Ah, I have had that book since I was very young, haven't read it in years, forgot it mentioned the slavers. That is where I learned of the slave thing as a child.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
Post link

It might also be the first mention of how dangerous the lower forest levels of Kashyyk are. The newspaper strip had a story around the same time where Han and Chewie ride giant centipedes down there to foil some Imperials. The flora and fauna get more lethal the deeper (and darker) you go! It fascinated and creeped me out as a kid.

I was bummed we didn't get to see much of that forest in Episode III.  ;)

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link
SilverWook said:

It might also be the first mention of how dangerous the lower forest levels of Kashyyk are. The newspaper strip had a story around the same time where Han and Chewie ride giant centipedes down there to foil some Imperials. The flora and fauna get more lethal the deeper (and darker) you go! It fascinated and creeped me out as a kid.

I was bummed we didn't get to see much of that forest in Episode III.  ;)

 

 Sounds fun. I may have to pick up the newspaper strip at some point. Is it in a collection?

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Doesn't really make Han much better than the slavers he is suppose to have recued him from.

Not true, unless Han is actively pushing him to hold to the life debt. Otherwise Han is just letting Chewie do his own thing.

I also never liked the Chewbacca family situation that originated from the Holiday Special, where Chewie leaves his family to go follow Han around the galaxy and only comes to visit once a year or so. This makes him out to be a pretty lousy husband and father, and I always prefered to see him as a rather upright and honorable kind of guy (well, other than the whole smuggler/criminal thing).

Well this is the same Holiday Special that named Chewie's relatives Itchy and Lumpy, so you can't expect much.

General question for anyone on this thread, does this life debt thing mean we're to assume Chewie wasn't genuinely emotionally attached to Han and just stuck with him due to this life debt?

Author
Time
Post link
Vaderisnothayden said:

General question for anyone on this thread, does this life debt thing mean we're to assume Chewie wasn't genuinely emotionally attached to Han and just stuck with him due to this life debt?

 

 In the movies, I totally know Chewie genuinly loved Han and the gang. Their relationship was clearly partners and pals (dare I say, chums?) in Star Wars, and Chewie was clearly part of the 'family' in Empire and Jedi.

Which is why the lifedebt thing is so irritating. It's not needed. I seems to exist just because someone said 'there's no way a man and a space monkey could be equal partners and friends. How can I easily a) explain how the monkey is in fact subservient, and b) explain how the monkey sticks around instead of going off to pick space bananas'

If Chewie has a lifedebt, and still loves Han and the crew, that has a wierd undertone of old Hollywood and the old black slave/housekeeper who deeply loved the family they worked for.

Author
Time
Post link
TheBoost said:
Vaderisnothayden said:

General question for anyone on this thread, does this life debt thing mean we're to assume Chewie wasn't genuinely emotionally attached to Han and just stuck with him due to this life debt?

 

 In the movies, I totally know Chewie genuinly loved Han and the gang. Their relationship was clearly partners and pals (dare I say, chums?) in Star Wars, and Chewie was clearly part of the 'family' in Empire and Jedi.

Which is why the lifedebt thing is so irritating. It's not needed. I seems to exist just because someone said 'there's no way a man and a space monkey could be equal partners and friends. How can I easily a) explain how the monkey is in fact subservient, and b) explain how the monkey sticks around instead of going off to pick space bananas'

If Chewie has a lifedebt, and still loves Han and the crew, that has a wierd undertone of old Hollywood and the old black slave/housekeeper who deeply loved the family they worked for.

Well the lifedebt dates back to the late 70s and that was a long time ago.

 

Author
Time
Post link
TheBoost said:
SilverWook said:

It might also be the first mention of how dangerous the lower forest levels of Kashyyk are. The newspaper strip had a story around the same time where Han and Chewie ride giant centipedes down there to foil some Imperials. The flora and fauna get more lethal the deeper (and darker) you go! It fascinated and creeped me out as a kid.

I was bummed we didn't get to see much of that forest in Episode III. ;)

 

Sounds fun. I may have to pick up the newspaper strip at some point. Is it in a collection?

Dark Horse reprinted many of the strips in the 90's as "Classic Star Wars The Early Adventures", reformatting them slightly into comic book format. Unfortunately, "The Kashyyyk Depths" storyline seems to be the only one that hasn't been reprinted yet. :(

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Kashyyyk_Depths

 

 

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link
SilverWook said:

I was bummed we didn't get to see much of that forest in Episode III.  ;)

 

I know. Huge let down! ROTS even abandoned the traditional view of the planet we've grown used to, with its densely populated trees shooting miles into the air, and the huts and platforms built at the tops of the trees, far above the dark and dangerous swamps located in the depths.

Instead, we pretty much get a swampy planet, with large clearings, and clusteres of some rather short trees. And it is such a blurry CG mess, none of it really sticks in your mind or makes an impression. As far as memorablity and interestingness in the depiction of the Wookie homeworld, The Holiday Special beats the snot out of poor ridiculous ROTS.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Yeah chewie was Han's Slave.  Give me a break.  Yeah thats why Chewie was like an Uncle to Han's children , and he cried when Chewie died.  I know this comes from the EU but most of the Han Solo Backstory does.  Read the Brian Daley and Ann Crispin trilogies.  I think in one of the AC Crispin books Han says he did'nt want Chewies Life debt and is annoyed with his following him around.  But then Chewie saves his life and they become partners in the smuggling business.

Hey at least it did not end up in the finished version of episode III.  But Han Solo was supposed to be raised on Chewies world as his brother as George changed the backstory.

originally the first time they met was when Han saved Chewie from being a slave When Han was a cadet in the Imperial Academy.  And Han was raised by Wookiees just not chewies family.  He is kind of based on Tarzan that was George lucas idea.

They never explained why Han Solo understands the wookiee language or other alien speech.  Or why he is such a softy when it come to creatures being enslaved.  I believe the idea of being able to undestand multiple languages and having an alien friend  was transfered to him from Obi Wan Kenobi when early in the scripts ben was a dr doolittle type character and guiness would refuse to play the character that way he wanted the character to have some dignity.

For a somewhat immoral person Han Solo has morals.  He is more than meets the eye as kenobi says in the radio drama.  Not just any pirate starship captain for hire would have a wookiee as co pilot and first mate of the millenium falcon.  Nor would he have saved Lukes bacon above the death star if he was a completely immoral person.

There is supposed to be abiguity about his character.  That's why having Greedo shoot first completely changes his character.  Hes supposed to start out as a guy who lives for Himself and then he becomes a less selfish individual at the end of the movie.

Besides being like Han's best friend and Brother Chewie is also like the Family dog or pet, even if he is extremely intelligent for one.  Again Chewie was based on the Lucas dog Indiana an alaskan malamute who was also very intelligent and almost man size when he rode in georges car like his co pilot,lol.

Then the man in the hat got the same name as George Lucas dog. You know a certain Indiana Jones character who was ruined in the last movie,lol.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

"I Don't Give A Shit Where The Stuff I Love Comes From. I Just Love The Stuff I Love." - Patton Oswalt

 

This couldn't be more applicable then right here. As far as I'm concerned Chewie is Han's Co-Pilot/ Best Friend/ Partner in Crime. That's it, it was more than evident on screen.

And this is also a good reason why I strongly dislike the EU (and to a certain extent you can add the PT to this too), because you don't need to explain or have explained to you every little detail from the OT. There's a reason it wasn't apart of the original movies because chances are it was either contrived or really boring.

edit: time for a new sig.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
see you auntie said:

"I Don't Give A Shit Where The Stuff I Love Comes From. I Just Love The Stuff I Love." - Patton Oswalt

This couldn't be more applicable then right here. As far as I'm concerned Chewie is Han's Co-Pilot/ Best Friend/ Partner in Crime. That's it, it was more than evident on screen.

And this is also a good reason why I strongly dislike the EU (and to a certain extent you can add the PT to this too), because you don't need to explain or have explained to you every little detail from the OT. There's a reason it wasn't apart of the original movies because chances are it was either contrived or really boring.

Couldn't agree more. 

There was a discussion going on in another thread about the 'Star Wars Encyclopedia', which is apparently ful of this sort of backstory and contains explanantions for every little thing (Did you know the Sarlaac is actually one of many, that came down from space in the form of spores.... more importantly, did you give a fuck?).

 

War does not make one great.