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Changes to the Disney+ 2019 SE of the Original Trilogy — Page 2

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Only the latest example of why Disney can’t be trusted with its own history.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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It’s not weird, it’s just lazy. The Simpsons is cropped because that’s what Fox did for the HD version, and they’re too lazy to use anything else. Splash covers up the nudity because that’s the censored for TV version, and they just thought they might as well go with that.

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Pretty sure the Splash edit was done specifically for Disney+

I know why Simpsons is chopped and uglified the way it is, but that’s separate from Disney being very weird about protecting for “family friendliness” above and beyond what they initially seemed to be planning with the streaming platform. They’re being very precious about the content in a pretty weird and counterproductive way.

It just doesn’t make sense to be this overboard about “the children!” when they launched (and still have) a ton of content that is honestly not at all aimed at, or really intended for, children. In fact you could argue the most financially successful stuff ON that platform is all PG-13 and isn’t really for kids at all.

Either a bunch of that stuff should be shunted off to Hulu, or they need to stop being so precious. Right now they’re riding fences for no good reason and people are getting frustrated.

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Disney’s always been this hypocritical and ridiculously puritan. It’s just easier to notice nowadays.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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DominicCobb said:

It’s not weird, it’s just lazy. The Simpsons is cropped because that’s what Fox did for the HD version, and they’re too lazy to use anything else. Splash covers up the nudity because that’s the censored for TV version, and they just thought they might as well go with that.

As the occasional sight gag has been obliterated by the cropping, I can only presume it was supervised by Mr. Magoo.
Uncropped Simpsons reruns are still airing on a local L.A. station.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I believe the proper 4x3 masters are going to start populating the platform in May. I don’t know if they’ll all go up at once or if it’ll sort of gradually roll out but they should be there soon.

It’s not just the cropping that sucks, though, it’s the STRETCHING of the image that happens every now and then, as well.

But this is all sort of off-topic, apologies.

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Broom Kid said:

Pretty sure the Splash edit was done specifically for Disney+

When this was going around the first time a few months ago, I saw a few people mention it was the TV version. Movie Censorship confirms that it’s the same as the one IMDb has listed for a while: https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=765444

I believe the only thing Disney has changed specifically for D+ is Lio and Stitch, but I might be wrong.

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

It’s not weird, it’s just lazy. The Simpsons is cropped because that’s what Fox did for the HD version, and they’re too lazy to use anything else. Splash covers up the nudity because that’s the censored for TV version, and they just thought they might as well go with that.

As the occasional sight gag has been obliterated by the cropping, I can only presume it was supervised by Mr. Magoo.
Uncropped Simpsons reruns are still airing on a local L.A. station.

Not in HD.

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DominicCobb said:

When this was going around the first time a few months ago, I saw a few people mention it was the TV version. Movie Censorship confirms that it’s the same as the one IMDb has listed for a while: https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=765444

That link looks like it’s attributing that digital-fur-tech change to Disney+, though. I also don’t believe Splash had any other TV edits made to it other than the ones initially made when it first got sold to network/syndication way back in the day.

This is the sort of change that would have/could have only been made on the cheap, and made very recently, and it’s just a lot more likely Disney applied the change themselves. Normally that edit is either a zoom in so you can’t see her buttcrack when she jumps into the water, or they cut back to Tom Hanks before she jumps.

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A cropped upscale of an ancient 4:3 broadcast tape isn’t going to look so hot in HD either. I’ve been sampling the local nostalgia tv subchannels and it’s a mixed bag of 4:3, horribly cropped to 16:9, and even stranger slightly stretched out at the sides making a 1:66(?) image lightly windowboxed at the sides, which seems to defeat the purpose of appeasing viewers who hate black bars in the first place. Not sure if any of this are “new” syndication masters or being somehow done on the fly.
Shows shot on SD broadcast tape look really bad blown up even in SD, which most of these digital subchannels are. Night Court looked like a bootleg tape to me.

I wonder if Disney would foot the bill for proper Simpsons remaster of the older SD episodes? Would all the film still be stored somewhere?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Broom Kid said:

DominicCobb said:

When this was going around the first time a few months ago, I saw a few people mention it was the TV version. Movie Censorship confirms that it’s the same as the one IMDb has listed for a while: https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=765444

That link looks like it’s attributing that digital-fur-tech change to Disney+, though. I also don’t believe Splash had any other TV edits made to it other than the ones initially made when it first got sold to network/syndication way back in the day.

This is the sort of change that would have/could have only been made on the cheap, and made very recently, and it’s just a lot more likely Disney applied the change themselves. Normally that edit is either a zoom in so you can’t see her buttcrack when she jumps into the water, or they cut back to Tom Hanks before she jumps.

It’s attributing them all to D+, but at the beginning speculates that they are simply ported over from the previous TV versions. Although the page has been translated so maybe something was lost.

But you’re right, IMDb doesn’t list the digital but alteration as a TV change, but it also doesn’t seem like their list is comprehensive. So it’s hard to say for certain one way or the other.

SilverWook said:

I wonder if Disney would foot the bill for proper Simpsons remaster of the older SD episodes? Would all the film still be stored somewhere?

I fully anticipate that when the show drops in 4:3 that it will be in SD. Doesn’t seem like they’d care to remaster when it’s only an incredibly niche audience they’d be servicing. If it shows up in HD, I’d think the logical assumption would be that it was work that had already been done (i.e. the remastered show before it was cropped to 16:9), not something Disney has done specifically now.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

ATMachine said:

Disney’s always been this hypocritical and ridiculously puritan. It’s just easier to notice nowadays.

I dunno. The harpy tits in Fantasia paint a somewhat different picture.

Maybe so, but if we have to reach back before the Manhattan Project for such examples, is it still relevant, or just a historical footnote reflecting a worldview that hasn’t survived in Disney as it’s existed for the last 70 years?

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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2004 - 2019 Comparison using DIFF

Tracking changes in the Shot List v0.6.01
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r9I1lIQWUQpnTbZGaoKTzBr4pqPXTRmCtniXPda8Dwg/edit?usp=sharing

Create list of items from 1977 which are still M.I.A.

The DIFF project can help explore the sources for the 2019 variations.

  1. Some shots are reframed. These are assumed to be a rescan from the original negative or at the least a piece of film. (the latest probably from the 97SE) Some of these rescanned shots have a slight different square pixel ratio. For example a shot might have the same left frame edge relationship to something in the frame but the right side is expanded, yet is contained in the same overall frame width.

  2. Some shots have the same framing almost exact. These are assumed to be not rescanned from a piece of film but Lucasfilm went back to a digital source when starting to 4K the shot. [but this is not completely true found some shots which deviate from this logic, the Aurebesh addition or DS explosion for example]

  3. Are there things which might help identify when a change which was done for the 3D conversion?

All times are approximate, but once the deviation is determined should be added or subtracted from the rest to whatever timeline you are working with.

~0:17:52 - Halo around Owen’s head removed

~0:19:41 - Reel 1 fade length is different.

~0:21:08 - In 2019, as part of the 3D conversion to add depth, the color of the far background and top sail of the Sky Hopper have been recolored. (this is the first shot in the Leia Hologram scene)

~0:26:56 - In 2019, the recolored sky has left some very clean edges around Luke and 3po’s face.

~0:27:46 - In 2019, the Landspeeder shots were digitally recomposited again?

~0:32:04 - In 2019, they added a pan to Luke finding 3po’s arm.

~0:42:43 - In 2019, Group looking at Mos Eisley is partially zoomed in. As this shot is part of wipe, the next shot, landspeeder entering Mos Eisley, is also zoomed in.

~0:45:06 - In 2019, Wide cantina shot, there is an odd brightening near Bo Shek.

~0:45:33 - In 2019, Wide shot Luke and 3po entering cantina, Luke’s head has been brightened at the beginning of the shot. General halo glow.

~0:49:19 - Close up of Ben an example of a shifted shot

~0:51:16 - Odd brightness halo…

~0:52:12 - In 2019, additional two engine space craft seen moving (up and right) in the right side opening at the beginning of the shot.

~0:52:38 - In 2019, the iris wipe to the Jabba scene has been redone. Softened. Possibly lasts one frame longer.

~0:54:10 - In 2019, the right to left wipe out of the Jabba scene was redone. End of wipe is the same but starts at a different point, compare when the wipe crosses Boba and 3po.

~0:55:22 - In 2019, shot of Han (close up) shooting back at stormtroopers while running into the Falcon is frame shifted to the right more than other reframing in the 2019 variation.

~0:56:12 - Matte lines around Star Destroyers

~0:56:14 - Luke’s hair in and out of blue screen

~1:01:17 - In 2019, this shot (Han close up watching Luke with lightsaber) was shift right. Hypothesis to remove some of the far distance part of the shot to reduce 3D depth work.

~1:04:44 - In 2019, one frame of this shot, out the Falcon window of the Death Star, is a composite of two frames.

~1:12:46 - In 2019, Shot shifted left, Stormtrooper Han and Luke walk Chewie following two Imperial Officers. On far right, previous 4 wall light panels, in 2019 there are now 5.

~1:13:01 - Pulsing of lights in the Death Star matte painting still do not pulse as they did in 1977 as trio waits for elevator to Detention Center.

~1:14:09 - In 2019, shot is pulled back. First shot of Imperial Officers in Detention Center.

~1:17:13 - In 2019, shot is reframed left. Chewie then pan to Han, get behind me.

Could this reframing issue be related to the ‘A’ and ‘B’ roll of the original negative? or is this irrelevant, since the scan was done from separation masters which might not have been the ‘A’ and ‘B’ rolls?

~1:21:45 - In 2019, when Chewie pushes against the compactor walls, the bottom of frame used to have a red bleeding from onset over lighting, this has been revised to a black fade.

~1:26:41 - In 20019, shot reframed left, when Ben’s is deactivating the tractor beam.

~1:29:09 - In 2019, the background matte painting of hanging objects has been recolored to match others as Luke and Leia swing across the chasm. Three shots.

~1:30:26 - In 2019, Lightsaber flashes, figure out if they were recomped for the 4K or is it just a rescan.

~1:32:20 - In 2019, shot reframed left to center Obi before Vader cuts him down.

~1:34:24 - In 2019, an additional frame jog occurs early in this shot which has fake shake. The later fake shake is that same as 2004. The early shake/jog is a new 2019 change. Similar thing done to both Han and Luke shots. Last frame of Luke shot is purposefully shifted.

~1:34:51 - In 2019, Han, in the last frame of this shot is altered. The background panning stops and Han continues to move but differently than previous versions.

~1:35:20 - In 2019, Han, in the last frame of this shot is altered. The background panning stops and Han continues to move. Second case.
Note: is this some 3D perception trick?

~1:35:22 - In 2019, Han, in the last frame of this shot is altered. The background panning stops and Han continues to move. Third case.

~1:35:24 - In 2019, Last frame of the shot the background remains where it is while Luke continues to move. In the past the background moved. Fourth case.

~1:35:27 - In 2019, the first frame of Luke ‘I got him!’ shot is warped differently than previous variations. Fifth case.

~1:35:44 - In 2019, the first frame of Han has a different framing than previous version. Sixth case.

doubleofive : in the Digital Bits article the ~1:35:48 shot of the approaching Tie fighter (page 6) the 77 and 11 screen shots might be from a shot a few shots earlier which has the tie fighter still off center in 2019.

~1:35:49 - In 2019, The first three frames of shit Luke shot have been reframed, then the shot returns to a similar location seen in previous variations. Seventh case.

~1:35:56 - In 2019, the first two frames of this Han shot have been reframed, then the shot returns to a similar location seen in previous variations. Eighth case.

~1:37:22 - In 2019, Artificial reframing pan happens over the first 10 - 15 frames, when Leia leaves and Luke talks to Han about her.

~1:37:52 - In 2019, Shot reframed with a pan early in the shot, then returns to previous variation location.

~1:37:57 - In 2019, Shot, Luke, reframed with a pan, could this be a byproduct of some stabilization?

~1:37:58 - In 2019, Shot, Han, reframed with a pan, could this be a byproduct of some stabilization?

~1:38:32 - In 2019, the live action portion of the overall Rebel Base shot flexes differently that previous variations. Probably just a re-scanning issue.

~1:38:37 - In 2019, shot contains more left of frame, Rebel Hangar.

~1:46:05 - In 2019, beginning of shot contains a slight shifting possibly due to a stabilization effort. Luke’s head moved semi-independently?

Are shots which match exactly a sign of shots which were redone at a certain point in time and they did not go back to original negative or some pieces of film. Question if that break point is the 1997 or the 2004.

~1:47:07 - In 2019, Blue Leader is reshifted for the first few frames, then realigns with earlier variations of this shot.

~1:47:22 - In 2019, Porkins is reshifted for the first few frames, then realigns with earlier variations of this shot.

~1:48:43 - In 2019, Luke cockpit shot and next special effect shot are shift left.

~1:49:34 - In 2019, last frame of Vader in Tie Cockpit, shifts differently than previous variations. This seems like an automation process which because it doesn’t have another frame to analyze makes some determination which places things a few pixels differently.

~1:50:24 - In 2019, garbage mattes return to Humdinger Glitch shot. Maybe they don’t show using the correct HDR.

~1:55:09 - In 2019, Luke’s head moves differently than the background for the last frame of this cockpit shot.

In 2019, the credit rescan moved them a bit, there is a vertical aspect ratio affect. In the center of the frame things align but above and below they stretch.

Additional clarification with pics may happen in the DIFF thread:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/DIF-Difference-tool-to-spot-visual-changes-SW2004-2011/id/13179

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Reviewed the DIF of ESB 2004 vs 2019 and below are the significant items for consideration.

  1. Zoomed in reframing of the entire movie; Crawl to Credits. Results in a loss of picture of about 4.82%.
  2. Zoomed in reframing cuts off pertinent characters like when Leia says “I don’t think this is wise”.
  3. Reframing leaves the credit uncentered.
  4. The shot of Han about to be carbonited, which got a shirt recoloring in 2004, has now been zoomed out.
  5. A shadow was removed from the Bespin landing platform when Luke and Vader confront each other.
  6. Stabilization efforts affect the beginning and end of shots.

Details, pics and full list starts at: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/DIF-Difference-tool-to-spot-visual-changes-Current-2004-vs-2019/id/13179/page/3#1344390

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Leias hologram in Ben’s hut is more transparent in the 2020 blu-ray, compared to the 2011, in the final shot:

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2683

The 1997 version is the same transparency as the 2011 version

And in the first shot as the hologram appears, there is a strange animated painted blue blob that appears for a few frames over the hologram on obi-wan’s hand

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2684

That doesn’t appear in the 1997 version

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Reviewed the DIF of ROTJ 2004 vs 2019 and below are some for consideration.

  1. Reframing of the intro SW and Crawl higher in the picture frame. Lucasfilm compensates with a modified pan at the end of the shot when the Death Star rises from the bottom of the shot.
  2. The back of the Left Imperial Officers has his shirt painted black.
  3. Multiple shots in the Jabba sequence appear to be stretched or have a zoom which might affect the pixel aspect ratio.
  4. A shot of the Rebel Fleet has a missing ship added back in and an edge crop fixed to show the Mon Calamari cruiser all the way to the end of the frame.

Details, pics and full list starts at: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/DIF-Difference-tool-to-spot-visual-changes-Current-2004-vs-2019/id/13179/page/3#1346060

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Before these 4K versions I hadn’t watched any iteration of the SE’s other than ‘97, so perhaps this was a change made in a previous iteration. But I swear there’s a bunch of new sound effects in the millennium falcon cockpit in the few shots as it backs out of the Death Star hangar and flies away just after Obi-wan bites it.

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Perhaps so. That’s the sort of distracting visual artifact that leads to messing with the image in other ways - such as the “Emperor’s slugs” in ROTJ that were created to hide a distracting edge on Ian McDiarmid’s lumpy face makeup.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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It might be a good idea to make a thread about just errors in the 4K releases. Here’s something I found today.

In almost all the shots like this during the Tie chase scene there are misaligned power windows making the space outside darker. Here is the worst

2011

2019

And its animated https://streamable.com/9g6zkl

Notice the shadows in on the cockpit windows, almost every shot in this setup has misaligned power windows, making space darker.

Here is another one

2011
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2019
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