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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
COUNT DOOKU — Page 3
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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SPOILER - They call him the Count because he loves to count!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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Samatar I like your style
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: SpecialEditionSaboteur
The point I was trying to make is that the OT doesnt have as much mindless action scenes as the PT. Yes, action scenes are used to move the story along. You confirm my beliefs by pointing out the significance of Luke vs Vader, but if you look at the PT does Jedi vs Darth Maul, or Jedi vs Undersea monsters really move the story along? Nope. So why are you getting so defensive when I point out the obvious?
Not trying to be defensive, but be more logically with the pun. And I think it is a slight double standard to say somehow the PT has got more mindless action, especially when you broke the movies down like you did.
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Sure some people like the scene, I'm not assessing its quality, but the scene does NOT move the story further, the action is all masterbatory.
The asteroid battle is the same way. And I wouldn't midn either if there was some payoff to the whole Jango/Obi-wan storyline, but it gets abandon on Geonosis, and Mace ends up taking out Jango. No pay off. If Jango and obi-wan had rematched in the arena, then it would be the second rematch, and the climax of a story that stretch across the whole film. But such a climax does not exist.
The end duel with Dooku and Yoda has the opposite problem, its all pay off with NO set up. And just like the kaminio rain fight, nothing comes of it. I've done an edit of the movie where Yoda walks in and Dooku immediately uses the force to topple the pillar onto Obi-wan and Anakin, Yoda uses the force to catch it as Dooku escapes. The plot remains completely unaffected, and now as GL would say its faster and more intense.
This is what I think he's getting at with mindless action. These are action scenes for the sake of action scenes. Event he TPM duel is better in that there were perminant results from it, Qui-gon died, Maul died. Obi-wan commited to training Anakin. A lot came out of that duel, plus it was a rematch which added to the drama. But a lot of the AOTC action, and to a lesser extent TPM is just gratitius.
The same thing bugged me in the matrix reloaded. Smith shows up out of nowhere, he and Neo fight for 10 minutes, then Neo flies away, something he could of done in the first place. Then Smith just walks off. Is it a fun sequence? Sure. Did it move the plot forward? no. Hence mindless action.
Where as if you look at ANH or ESb, there's really nothing you could cut out of those movies have them still make sense. Sure the garbage compactor scene could be lost, and maybe the escape fromt he deathstar space battle, but without either the threat of the empire is greatly minimized, and both scenes are embraced pretty much across the board.
ESB is even better, the only scene I can spot that can be cut is the Luke quick chat with the medical droid before the hoth battle begins, and that scene is just there for pacing reasons to put a moment between the scenes that proceeds and follows it.
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I see, Tarkin being in one movie, ANH, is so much more then Dooku. And with that, we learn even less. And as far as Dooku goes period, we do not know how much more will be learned. And I think we learned a good bit about him for the first movie he appeared in, especially compared to Vader's debut in 4.
But Vader and Tarkin are more straightforward characters. They're presented as pure evil and they act accordingly. There's no guess work. Is it less ambitious then Dooku? Of course. But ambition is only a good thing if the end result is good. Dooku was a more complicated character, we weren't suppose to be sure if he was good or evil, or where he fit into the whole scheme of things, but if you have a complex character, you have to develop them. The other thing is its suppose to be up in the air whether he's good or bad, but its so blatantly obvious that he's bad that the effect is lost.
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And here's another thing, hint hint, Dooku being Yoda's padawan was supposed to be a surprise.
I'm sure it was, but honestly who cares? So Yoda trained Dooku, big deal. Since Yoda never even mentioned Dooku up until 5 minutes before this moment, it doesn't really pay off, and if anything it jsut creates a possible continuity issue with the OT.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Originally posted by: Rebel Scumb
ESB is even better, the only scene I can spot that can be cut is the Luke quick chat with the medical droid before the hoth battle begins, and that scene is just there for pacing reasons to put a moment between the scenes that proceeds and follows it.
Did you know that that scene was filmed by George Lucas....And it took something like 20 goes to get the right one!!!
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I'm curious, what continuity issue with OT are talking about?
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I know Jango is great assassin but he is still not a Jedi.
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: Warbler
which is somthing I don't understand. Jango is not a Jedi. Obiwan is a Jedi. Yet Jango was able to fight him to a draw. Should Obiwan being a Jedi be able to kick Jango's butt?
I know Jango is great assassin but he is still not a Jedi.
Jango has been through a lot of s**t, I mean, who knows what fights/adventures he has gone through? A professional bounty hunter, in a star wars universe, that is NOT an easy job. Besides, he got lucky.
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i was just talkin about all of this stuff today with buddies..
okay about the Jango/Obi Wan fight...
1. my opinion it was definatly pointless... but not only was it pointless but it was unbelievable...
- the blasts from the slave 1 cannon at obi wan should have definatly left some permanent damage i think... those were fired from 10 feet away and knocked him on his ass... and thats it?
figured something which destroys ships would have had a much bigger impact...
- i thought obi wan punching and kicking jango totally killed the fact that jango his this bad ass armour but is still knocked down with a fist....????
- the biggest complaint i have... take another look at the string which when obi wan is falling he throws it to catch on something and save himself...
ur telling me that falling from that height and using that thin of a string/cable (whatever it is) and stopping as abbruptly as he did that 1. it would not have ripped out of his hand 2. would have sliced his hand down the middle 3. pulled his joints from his sockets...
anyone's thoughts on these...
oh ya and please try and justify anakin jumping out of the car during the zam wessle chase and grabing on to the other one at that pace!!!!
HOLY SHIT!! that would have ripped Arnies arms out of the torsoe...
this is where i think the PT sucks... they're making it too unbelievable!!
any thoughts?
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Everything else: They used the force... :-)
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all other things: the used the force.
boiwan VS jangos helmet/armour: even though you have armour or a helmet, if youre hit hard enough your head will still move, it might even still hurt, just not nearly as much as it would without a helmet.
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: Warbler
Rebel Scumb,
I'm curious, what continuity issue with OT are talking about?
Well Ben says he thought he could train Anakin just as well as Yoda, but Yoda himself lost a padawan to the darkside. Its not exactly a continuity error, but its not exactly cohesive IMHO
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
rebel, MOST action sequences in any movie are eye-candy... hence the word action-movie. the fight between jango and obiwan is meant to establish the skills of jango fett and the henceforth the clones. mace windu is stronger in the force and better than obiwan, meaning that it took someone of his standards to best jango.
Yes but other then AOTC I wouldn't consider any of the SW films to be action films. Adventure films yes, but action films no. And regardless of Mace's ability it difused the drama to have him take out Jango, it would be like Captain america showing up at the end of spiderman to kill GreenGoblin.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: Rebel ScumbQuote
Originally posted by: Warbler
Rebel Scumb,
I'm curious, what continuity issue with OT are talking about?
Well Ben says he thought he could train Anakin just as well as Yoda, but Yoda himself lost a padawan to the darkside. Its not exactly a continuity error, but its not exactly cohesive IMHO
Yoda has been training Padawans for approximately 800 years, with one we know of lost to the darkside. (Assuming Dooku doesn't turn back or help the heroes). I would say that is a damn good record. What is that, like 1 in 40? Continuity error, I think not.
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Originally posted by: Rebel ScumbQuote
Originally posted by: motti_soL
rebel, MOST action sequences in any movie are eye-candy... hence the word action-movie. the fight between jango and obiwan is meant to establish the skills of jango fett and the henceforth the clones. mace windu is stronger in the force and better than obiwan, meaning that it took someone of his standards to best jango.
Yes but other then AOTC I wouldn't consider any of the SW films to be action films. Adventure films yes, but action films no. And regardless of Mace's ability it difused the drama to have him take out Jango, it would be like Captain america showing up at the end of spiderman to kill GreenGoblin.
Yes, they would make great sense. Obi-Wan takes down Jango, what seems to be a Jedi Master-like feat, and can't stand more then a minute or so with Dooku. Hmmm, perhaps I guess.
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those were the two i thought Lucas should have really looked at the law of physics and human capability..
lol
i agree that the blaster and armour ones didnt bother me as much... but you gotta tell me the other two were just wayyyyyyy to far fetched...
and another scene i wanted to point out in AOTC which i thought totally owned!!!!
i mean this one scene makes AOTC worth the watch...
the sandpeople slaughter and then when he tells amidala... i thought that totally had a creepy feel to it... listen to the music when he tells her..
sends chills up my spine...
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Man O Man!!!!