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Boston Marathon Explosion(s) — Page 12

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Surely there's an Osama/Saddam/French thread somewhere...

...

What is up with French people?

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 (Edited)

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

I didn't live in America at the time of 9/11, or the few years preceding and following it, and I've always had a really hard time relating to Americans on it.

this I do not understand.   Although you weren't in the country at the time, you were an American at the time, correct?   How would where you physically were at the time, effect how you feel about 911?  

I've witnessed a lot of violence in my lifetime, and there are massive events that leave far more than 3,000 dead that happen all the time. Many of these events are caused by bad people inflicting harm on innocent people, much like 9/11, others are naturally occurring. I feel mournful every time I hear of one of these events, even more so when it is an act of evil men. This is exactly how I feel about 9/11. If I became enraged/depressed/pissed off/unable to move on/etc. every time one of these events took place, or every time I remembered one of these events, I'd have to be enraged/depressed/pissed off/unable to move on/etc. pretty much most of the time.

still not sure, how, as an American, 911 isn't a bigger deal to you. 

I guess I identify more as a person than an American. Not sure, how, as a human, more world catastrophes aren't bigger deals to you.

who says these other catastrophes aren't a big deal to me?   I just take 911 more personally.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

It happened, it sucked, nothing can be done about it. So it goes.

I disagree with the underlined.   You can do two things:

1.  bring the people that did it to justice, just like you would do in the case of any other murder.

2. take reasonable steps to prevent it from happening again.   Of course everyone is going to disagree with each other on what those steps should be.

We did those things. Right? So, is it better? Did we fix it?

no, there's no way to 'fix it'.   But, it is better than nothing.  

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

and it was really dumb sounding and annoying. Lots of ragging on the French too.

well, the French do look down their noses at us.

Do they?

seems like it.    Seems like they have a low opinion of America and Americans. 

Well, you clearly have a low opinion of the French. So if they do, I can't fault them for it. 

if you say so.  

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

Tell me, just how many French people have you known, Warb?

not many.  ABC for one.  how about you?

I've been there to visit a few times, knew a number of French students in college, dated an American girl who lived in France for several years and met a few of her French friends. My freshmen year of college, specifically, I knocked around with this pretty French girl named Anna for a little while.

ok you know the French better than I do.   tell me what they think of America.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

Every culture has its quirks that we stereotype them by, maybe there is a general French sentiment of pride and xenophobia. America has worse traits than that. 

such as?  CP3S, you sure you're an American? 

I used to spend a lot of time wishing I wasn't,

this I do not understand at all.   I am proud to be an American.

CP3S said:

When I was out of the country, I used to tell strangers that I was Canadian.

honestly, I have to say, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.   No American should be embarrassed to admit he's/she's an American.   

CP3S said:

When you're abroad, you find that people from the United States have an almost universal reputation of being very fat, very loud, and very ignorant.

and you complain about my thinking on the French.    You are just as bad as that, if not worse, when it comes to your own country. 

CP3S said:

Yes, I am an American. I was born here. I was half raised here. I am very much a product of American culture and American thinking.

could have fooled me.  

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

At what cost? I don't think either of them was worth it, I feel sure one wasn't.

with Saddam, maybe you are right.   But Bin Laden?   No, he had to be stopped.   He had to pay for 911.    You can't do something like that to us and get away with it.    Would you suggest letting 911 go unpunished?   When someone is murdered, do you object to finding out who the murder is and going after him/her?

Bin Laden is the one I feel sure wasn't worth it,

how in hell can you say that?   He was a murderer!!!!  We had every right to go after him.   

CP3S said:

he had no power.

he was the head of Al Qaeda.

CP3S said:

With Saddam, maybe we did some good removing him from power, bottom line on that one is, we had absolutely no reason to be in that country.

other then to rid the world of an evil dictator that was a threat to the US, especially if he ever got wmds or worse, nukes.

other then to free Iraq from this evil dictator, and try to turn Iraq into a free democracy.  

but yeah, go on like the rest of the world, acting like we invaded a peaceful harmless good nation.   

CP3S said:

9/11 was a lose/lose situation, and we lost and and we lost. It took us many years to get Bin Laden, and by the time we did he was an old useless has been who couldn't even leave the house in hiding. Bin Laden cost way more lives than he was worth.

so we should have just let him get away with it?!?!  Sorry no, when someone murders 3000 people, I want him to pay for it.   We needed to get him to show that, you attack America, we take you out.   Why wouldn't you want a murderer brought to justice?   Next you'll be saying we should have never tried to find the people that did the Boston bombing.  You are turning into a pacifist.

CP3S said:

And his death is still questionable. His death came at a time of political convenience, and no evidence of his death has ever been given. Not sure I am really doubting it, just saying that there is reason too.

fixed.

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 (Edited)

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

Tell me, just how many French people have you known, Warb?

not many.  ABC for one.  how about you?

I've been there to visit a few times, knew a number of French students in college, dated an American girl who lived in France for several years and met a few of her French friends. My freshmen year of college, specifically, I knocked around with this pretty French girl named Anna for a little while.

ok you know the French better than I do.   tell me what they think of America.

Tell you what which one of them thought of America? Like I said, I've known several different people from France, and like all individuals, their feelings differ from one another.

Anna was kind of a snob, but she was hot enough to get away with it. ;) Actually, I think a lot of that was her trying to hid her vulnerability of being in a strange place, surrounded by strange people, and struggling with understanding everyone around her with their weird accents and talking too quickly for her. We tend to like to hid behind things we know and understand, and that manifested itself in comments like, "Ugh, we'd never do something like this in France!". I've heard Americans in other countries do it all the time. She could be extremely sweet, too.

 

I am proud to be an American.

I am proud to be a highly evolved monkey man with opposable thumbs. And I feel very fortunate to have been born in a country where I have had the life's opportunities I have had, such as education, my opportunities to work abroad, traveling, access to ideas, as well as all the benefits secured for us by the founders through the Constitution. It is a good place to live.

 

CP3S said:

When I was out of the country, I used to tell strangers that I was Canadian.

honestly, I have to say, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.   No American should be embarrassed to admit he's/she's an American.  

I'm not ashamed of it. Being an American carries a lot of negative stigma with it throughout the world, I wasn't prepared to deal with it that back then. Now I am more secure. It is extremely easy for you to tell me I should be ashamed, when you've never stepped outside of our front door, so to speak.

 

CP3S said:

When you're abroad, you find that people from the United States have an almost universal reputation of being very fat, very loud, and very ignorant.

and you complain about my thinking on the French.    You are just as bad as that, if not worse, when it comes to your own country. 

The "very fat, very loud, and very ignorant" thing isn't from me. That is seriously the stigma attached to us that I heard from people again and again, much like the French being snobs, and the British having atrocious teeth. It is our stereotype. When I'd hear them make these comments about the country I was from, it really hurt.

 

CP3S said:

Yes, I am an American. I was born here. I was half raised here. I am very much a product of American culture and American thinking.

could have fooled me.  

Ouch.

 

CP3S said:

9/11 was a lose/lose situation, and we lost and and we lost. It took us many years to get Bin Laden, and by the time we did he was an old useless has been who couldn't even leave the house in hiding. Bin Laden cost way more lives than he was worth.

so we should have just let him get away with it?!?!  Sorry no, when someone murders 3000 people, I want him to pay for it.   We needed to get him to show that, you attack America, we take you out.   Why wouldn't you want a murderer brought to justice?   Next you'll be saying we should have never tried to find the people that did the Boston bombing.  You are turning into a pacifist.

It seems the United Nations didn't start collecting data on the number of civilians killed in Afghanistan until 2006, since then, over 14,000 (pushing 15,000) civilians were killed thanks to our war. If you ask me, there is absolutely no way to justify that. His actions set into motion the deaths of 3,000 Americans, ours well over 14,000 Afghans. That is noncombatants, people as innocent as those 3,000 that died on 9/11, and that number is just since 2006, half the extent of the conflict.

If you include the American lives, the lives of other military personnel from around the world, and the lives of those fighting against us along with the full number of collateral fatalities for the entire extent of Americans war in Afghanistan... That is a lot of dead humans.

I highly doubt the elusive terrorists could have killed a decent fraction of as many people in as many years. If this doesn't stop and cause you to rethink it, nothing will. But hey, we got Bin Laden out of it! Justice is a beautiful thing, right?

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CP3S said:

Anna was kind of a snob, but she was hot enough to get away with it.

The lost lyrics from "88 Lines About 44 Women."

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 (Edited)

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

Tell me, just how many French people have you known, Warb?

not many.  ABC for one.  how about you?

I've been there to visit a few times, knew a number of French students in college, dated an American girl who lived in France for several years and met a few of her French friends. My freshmen year of college, specifically, I knocked around with this pretty French girl named Anna for a little while.

ok you know the French better than I do.   tell me what they think of America.

Tell you what which one of them thought of America?

how about giving me the prevailing opinion? 

CP3S said:

 

I am proud to be an American.

I am proud to be a highly evolved monkey man with opposable thumbs. And I feel very fortunate to have been born in a country where I have had the life's opportunities I have had, such as education, my opportunities to work abroad, traveling, access to ideas, as well as all the benefits secured for us by the founders through the Constitution. It is a good place to live.

yet you were embarrassed to say that you were from this good place.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

When I was out of the country, I used to tell strangers that I was Canadian.

honestly, I have to say, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.   No American should be embarrassed to admit he's/she's an American.  

I'm not ashamed of it.

well you should be. 

CP3S said:

Being an American carries a lot of negative stigma with it throughout the world, I wasn't prepared to deal with it that back then. Now I am more secure. It is extremely easy for you to tell me I should be ashamed, when you've never stepped outside of our front door, so to speak.

I may not have traveled abroad, but I know one thing for certain: I would never ever, EVER, EVER!! be embarrassed to say that I am an American.   I am offended at the notion of it.  

Anyone that wants to give me negative stigma for being an American can go fuck themselves.  I am not going to hide what I am.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

When you're abroad, you find that people from the United States have an almost universal reputation of being very fat, very loud, and very ignorant.

and you complain about my thinking on the French.    You are just as bad as that, if not worse, when it comes to your own country. 

The "very fat, very loud, and very ignorant" thing isn't from me. That is seriously the stigma attached to us that I heard from people again and again, much like the French being snobs, and the British having atrocious teeth. It is our stereotype.

yet instead of fighting against this stereotype, you cooperated with it.   You could have been an example to them of an American who was not "very fat, very loud, and very ignorant" instead, you made them think you were Canadian.   Think about that.

CP3S said:

When I'd hear them make these comments about the country I was from, it really hurt.

and what do you hearing that an American(whom I consider to be a friend) was embarrassed to be an American and hid that fact while abroad and pretended to be Canadian, makes me other Americans feel?   That really hurt too.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

Yes, I am an American. I was born here. I was half raised here. I am very much a product of American culture and American thinking.

could have fooled me.  

Ouch.

well it's true, Mr Canadian.

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

9/11 was a lose/lose situation, and we lost and and we lost. It took us many years to get Bin Laden, and by the time we did he was an old useless has been who couldn't even leave the house in hiding. Bin Laden cost way more lives than he was worth.

so we should have just let him get away with it?!?!  Sorry no, when someone murders 3000 people, I want him to pay for it.   We needed to get him to show that, you attack America, we take you out.   Why wouldn't you want a murderer brought to justice?   Next you'll be saying we should have never tried to find the people that did the Boston bombing.  You are turning into a pacifist.

It seems the United Nations didn't start collecting data on the number of civilians killed in Afghanistan until 2006, since then, over 14,000 (pushing 15,000) civilians were killed thanks to our war. If you ask me, there is absolutely no way to justify that. His actions set into motion the deaths of 3,000 Americans, ours well over 14,000 Afghans. That is noncombatants, people as innocent as those 3,000 that died on 9/11, and that number is just since 2006, half the extent of the conflict.

If you include the American lives, the lives of other military personnel from around the world, and the lives of those fighting against us along with the full number of collateral fatalities for the entire extent of Americans war in Afghanistan... That is a lot of dead humans.

I highly doubt the elusive terrorists could have killed a decent fraction of as many people in as many years. If this doesn't stop and cause you to rethink it, nothing will. But hey, we got Bin Laden out of it! Justice is a beautiful thing, right?

in all of this, you never answered my question, should we have just let them get away with it?   It is now wrong to bring murderers to justice?  

But 15,000 civilians killed is too many.  We should have found way to avoid that.    I thought we were not deliberately targeting civilians.   I am not sure how without deliberately targeting civilians, we end up with 15,000 civilians killed.   We still should have gone after Bin Laden, but maybe we should have done it in a different way.   

then again, how maybe died in the liberation of France in WWII?  Probably alot, included French civilians.   Are you going to tell me we should left France under Nazi control?

btw, you opinion of how many people the terrorists could kill fails to consider what might happen if they get a hold of nukes.

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 (Edited)

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

When I was out of the country, I used to tell strangers that I was Canadian.

honestly, I have to say, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.   No American should be embarrassed to admit he's/she's an American.  

I'm not ashamed of it.

well you should be. 

And you should fuck yourself.


Sorry, overreaction.

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Warbler said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

When you're abroad, you find that people from the United States have an almost universal reputation of being very fat, very loud, and very ignorant.

and you complain about my thinking on the French.    You are just as bad as that, if not worse, when it comes to your own country. 

The "very fat, very loud, and very ignorant" thing isn't from me. That is seriously the stigma attached to us that I heard from people again and again, much like the French being snobs, and the British having atrocious teeth. It is our stereotype.

yet instead of fighting against this stereotype, you cooperated with it.   You could have been an example to them of an American who was not "very fat, very loud, and very ignorant" instead, you made them think you were Canadian.   Think about that.

My friends and people I worked with knew I was an American. Everyone in the city I lived in who knew me, knew I was an American. The people I heard the fat, loud, and ignorant comments from, knew I was an American. It was when I traveled that I'd often feel compelled to lie, not always. You can't say you wouldn't do the same when you've never been in that situation.

I've had my life threatened on multiple occasions for being an American. I've had knifes pulled on me, guns pointed at me, and been psychologically fucked with in violent ways for being an American. I've had friends traveling with me threatened, for me being an American. I had to beat the shit out of a guy in self defense, for being an American.

Sorry, but I am not one bit ashamed of pretending to be something people hate a little less. This is diving WAY too far into personal areas that I do not want to talk about at all!

 

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well, maybe it if was to avoid violence being done to your person,  I could understand it.     But if it was to avoid being called fat, loud, ignorant, and/or other names, that I could not understand.   

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CP3S said:

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

CP3S said:

When I was out of the country, I used to tell strangers that I was Canadian.

honestly, I have to say, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.   No American should be embarrassed to admit he's/she's an American.  

I'm not ashamed of it.

well you should be. 

And you should fuck yourself.


Sorry, overreaction.

seeing as I am the king of overreacting, I have no right to complain here.

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 (Edited)

CP3S said:You can't say you wouldn't do the same when you've never been in that situation.

maybe, maybe not.    But It would take a lot for me to hide the fact that I am an American.  I'd feel like I was betraying my country.   

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CP3S said:

I've had my life threatened on multiple occasions for being an American. I've had knifes pulled on me, guns pointed at me, and been psychologically fucked with in violent ways for being an American. I've had friends traveling with me threatened, for me being an American. I had to beat the shit out of a guy in self defense, for being an American.

where was this, Iran?   I think I would have left that place. 

I am sorry to hear that shit happened to you.    

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           Well, they've moved on to their second southern white guy with questionable past. They did such a brilliant job with the first. They'll have everyone trained like Pavlov's Dog to think of their "ENEMY" when thinking of the events of this period. I wonder if they are brazen enough to go ahead and present their designated southern white christian male for the "Waco" op.
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wtf are you talking about???????????

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thejediknighthusezni said:

           Well, they've moved on to their second southern white guy with questionable past. They did such a brilliant job with the first. They'll have everyone trained like Pavlov's Dog to think of their "ENEMY" when thinking of the events of this period. I wonder if they are brazen enough to go ahead and present their designated southern white christian male for the "Waco" op.

Somewhere in that swirling nonsense post, are you saying you think that you think the guys is innocent? Am I translating you right? 

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      I forget some people don't watch the evening news. Yeah, I mean the Ricin stuff, and yes, I think they are innocent of creating or using poison. No matter what the regime does here, they know they win, even when they destroy all faith in anything the "authorities" have to say about anything. They may as well haul out their "Waco" plant explosion patsy/patsies. The blibbering morons who support them and the ones who don't support anything just want any excuse to be nasty savages against their designated enemy. It doesn't matter how fraudulant.