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Info: OT Bootleg DVDs — Page 25

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Jashun44 -- the consensus seems to be, that the best laser disc version is the 'Definitive Collection' box set, but just be wary of some early pressings which are missing the Leia-welding bit. You can find the set on eBay easily enough. It was released in 1994 and again in 1995, I believe.

Someone on this thread made the assertion that the later LD release with the 'Faces' cover design had a more 'cleaned up' image, but I think someone else on this thread refuted that (?).
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I recall seeing a pic years ago of 3PO and R2 on the Tantive that showed a "before and after" split-screen comparison, and for some reason always attributed it to the "Faces" set. I'll have to find it to confirm.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Jashun44
Hey guys. I just had a couple of quick questions.

1. I know this has probably been answered before, so I apologize for the repeat, but what is the best Laserdisc copy to have. I'm specifically refering to one that is Pre-Sp-Ed., has the missing C3P0 dialogue and the Princess Leia wielding scene, and is good quality. (I'm not even sure about CLV vs CAV).

2. Also, I wanted to know if anybody here was doing a transfer on a Mac...if so, I'm curious to see what hardware/software they are using to capture, encode, clean-up, etc.

3. Also, what have been the bitrates people are using for their encoding...like if it's variable, what are your min. and max.? Also, for anyone preparing to do a dual-layer transfer, like Laserman, what bitrate are you going to use?

Thanks for the help and info!

Jashun


If you want to get the 3PO line where he says, "The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.", you will have to either buy the 1989 Widescreen LD or the SE Boxed set. I would definitely buy either the Faces or The Definitive Collection LD's in addition. If you don't care about the extras, I would just get the Faces discs. Only the first pressing of The Definitive Collection had the problem with the missing Leia welding scene. It was corrected in the 2nd pressing and people were able to exchange them I believe. If you go after that set, I would ask the seller if the set has that footage or not. I was fortunate that mine was not the first pressing.

Also, if you want a history of the Star Wars video releases, check this link.

Hope that helps. I really wish I had some of those documentaries listed on the miscellaneous page.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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I thought I'd just chime in. For those who don't know how to create anamorphic video from non-anamorphic sources, a clear set of instructions is available at:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187458&highlight=laserdiscs

I tried this with a non-anamorphic capture of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" (laserdisc theatrical cut... different to the official "Directors Cut" DVD) and the results were fairly good. The only things that might make this approach less that optimal are that they use TMPGENC to encode to MPEG-2, whereas as someone pointed out above CCE is generally considered the industry standard for MPEG-2 encoding. Also, the best resize method is, I believe, tri-cubic resizing (someone also mentioned Lanzcos, but I'm unfamiliar with it... worth investigating) but I don't know what method TMPGENC employs, so it may not be the best.

Also, just to add weight to what's been said here already, an anamorphic DVD will obviously NOT increase "true" resolution over it's non-anamorphic counterpart, but it's advantage is solely for those of us with widescreen TV's which generally introduce horrid scanline artifacts when zooming 4:3 material to fill the screen - some widescreens can zoom without artifacts but the vast majority aren't able to do it very well.
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TMPNGEnc takes a lot longer to encode, but I don't think the quality is much or any at all worse than Cinema Craft Encoder. It depends on who you talk to as far as which is better. Also, CCE is very expensive. TMPNGEnc is $50.


Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Whatever encoder you use, make sure it has the ability to go in and edit and change the parameters for certain frames/scenes that need it.
I don't know how many of the PC based systems allow this, but at work we find it crucial when mastering DVDs.
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BTW I have that 'holiday special' mentioned on the misc page, it is truly a disaster!
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Wow, that link has a lot of details. Sony Vegas already automates a lot of that stuff for me, and lets me keep audio and video in sync (replacing analog with digital PCM, and then adjusting for speed-up. I don't know why this happens, but it's a minor annoyance now.)

You know, I've downloaded the "Holiday Special" as a .RM file, but I've never had the nerve to watch it. I guess I'll save it for a day when I feel suicidal, so that I can compare my situation to something worse.

Laserman, did you get my PM?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Hey, thanks for the info Patrick and Nan Tucket. I guess I'll check on ebay and such to see what I find. I would just like to have a good copy of the Laserdisc...it would make me feel better! Well, so what is a decent price range for these. I just don't want to get ripped off. I know there are a lot of people out there way over-pricing them. What would be the maximum you guys would reccomend paying for a set? Thanks again for the help

Jashun
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Well, I just got done doing a side-by-side split-scren comparison of my "Faces" and DefCol disks (the scene where Luke leaves Dagobah) and I am very surprised. The DefCol is much cleaner, with more contrast, a deeper black level, and much better detail. I may have to go back and redo ANH sooner than I thought. Good thing I haven't started compiling my ESB DVD yet.

Although, I'm a little sad, because my DefCol of ROTJ has some speckles here and there, which are most noticeable in the darker scenes (i.e. end of ROTJ, which I love.) Oh well.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MeBeJedi, what hardware did you use for your comparison? Considering most people swear they are the exact same transfer (and others claim the Faces set, which was released later on, had been cleaned up further) I'm very surprised to read your results. One possibility: the differences you mention could very well be a quality difference in the output of your laserdisc players, rather than a difference on the discs themselves. Have you tried swapping them and doing the test again?



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Is it under anybody here's power and ability to locate a film strip shown in theatres of the O-OT?

If that were the case, I'm sure we could find someone to transfer them to DVD, giving up a much better quality and detailed transfer.

The only problem would be distributing them...

My stance on revising fan edits.

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You do not want a theatrical print for this purpose; they are too far removed from the original negative to retain the detail necessary for a good telecine transfer, plus they wind up being overly contrasty on video, not to mention grainy. Stick with the LDs.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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"MeBeJedi, what hardware did you use for your comparison? Considering most people swear they are the exact same transfer (and others claim the Faces set, which was released later on, had been cleaned up further) I'm very surprised to read your results. One possibility: the differences you mention could very well be a quality difference in the output of your laserdisc players, rather than a difference on the discs themselves. Have you tried swapping them and doing the test again?"

I did swap them out. I only have one player. I was going to replace the scene from my "Faces" disc with the DefCol. because there were a few seconds of blips I wanted to cover over. Just for kicks, I put them side-by-side in Vegas, and I could see a tremendous difference. I'll try to post a screencap. What's the command for posting a pic here?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Jashun44
Hey, thanks for the info Patrick and Nan Tucket. I guess I'll check on ebay and such to see what I find. I would just like to have a good copy of the Laserdisc...it would make me feel better! Well, so what is a decent price range for these. I just don't want to get ripped off. I know there are a lot of people out there way over-pricing them. What would be the maximum you guys would reccomend paying for a set? Thanks again for the help

Jashun


I paid $88.00 for my Definitive Collection set including FedEx shipping back in November 2002. So, I would probably pay up to $100.00 for the set, but I wouldn't go as high as $150.00 unless I was really desperate to have it. Also, when I bought mine, I didn't know about the missing 17 seconds of Leia welding in ESB, so I was really lucky when my set came and turned out okay.

As far as the Faces laserdiscs go, I probably wouldn't pay more than $30.00 each if they are sold separately or $90.00 for all 3.

Patrick

"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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I got my DefCol set for $77 bucks on Ebay, with $20 for shipping. I got the "Faces" set from a guy who wanted me to make DVD's for him (his player broke down.)

What software are you guys using for video captures?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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With or without the shipping included, that is a great deal.

As far as capturing goes, it depends on your capturing card. I have a Canopus ADVC-100 which is a DV capturing bridge and I use a free program called WinDV. For $40.00, there is a good program called Scenalyzer which can be used with it. I was using Virtual Dub to capture when I was using my GeForce4 Ti4200 as a capture card, but I was having audio sync issues. I believe that may have been due to my built in soundcard. I have since bought a soundcard, but I haven't tested my GeForce card with it to see the sync issue has been resolved. I have no sync issues using the ADVC-100, but there is a lot of debate about how good DV capturing is as it compresses 4:1:1.

I would really check out Video Help (formerly DVDRHelp). for more information on what to use.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Oops, my bad. I meant "screen captures", though I appreciate the info.

So, what's the best analog capture board? (i.e. what consumer board gets the closest to 4:4:4)

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Hey Patrick. Thanks again for the info. I'll check around and see what I can find. I was expecting to pay around $100, so that's cool. Yeah, you're lucky your copy included the Leia welding scene! I would be upset if I bought one without it but didn't find out until later...

Hey Laserman, can you tell us a little bit more about the board you're using for your transfer? I'm just getting into the video production industry, so I'm still learning a lot and I'm curious about it. I've looked around, but everything I've found says that you can only get a 4:4:4 transfer if you have a true high definition source. How are you going to do it? What is your board like? Also, is there anything built for consumers to use to get a 4:4:4 (or close to) transfer? I found some a couple of companies that make equipment for 4:4:4, but again, everything says you must go from a high definition source. Anyway, I was just curious to know more details because it seems really cool if you could do this...I hope there is a consumer (or prosumer) way to do this... Thanks for the help and info...
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I'm not sure who makes the board in my Workstation, it is probably a silicon image or sirius board, I will crack it open later and have a look. I know I have one of these under the hood on my Challenge. http://futuretech.mirror.vuurwerk.net/siriusvideo.html

You are mostly right about 4:4:4 being in the HD arena, as it is one of the only sources that are actually recorded in 4:4:4 in the first place, so obviously you want to keep it that way when working with it. That's why I mentioned the 4:2:2 solutions that are available to consumers (via rental anyway) that can take an RGB input from a good quality laserdisc player. That would be your best bet, to get it bumped onto digital betacam or similar, and then use that digital stream as your master. You will actually end up with a *better* image than anyone is seeing out of their Laserdisc players that only have S-Video (in all its colour crawling glory)

Your next best option would be a board from someone like a targa, and use it with a lossless realtime codec like huffyuv or similar, and once again come in via RGB from an LD player that supports it. You then want to pull the PCM track off separately and keep it in the digital realm.
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Hey Laserman, thanks for the response. It all makes more sense to me now. Awesome...I'm getting excited about this stuff...There's actually a couple of things I'd like to transfer. That's cool that you mentioned digital betacam, because that's basically the idea I was going for. The place I work at let's me use their beta decks and tapes. I think I am just going to transfer my stuff onto digital betacam tapes and use them as my master. So what would you reccomend using to transfer the audio? I mean, I have access to a DAT machine...or is something else better? Speaking of that, do you think it would be a good idea to capture both video and audio at the same time, so I could sync the timecodes, like using SMPTE? Thanks again for the help Laserman.

Also, so am I correct in saying that neither the Definitive set or the Faces set have the missing C3P0 line? If this is so, has anyone ever separately captured (or considered capturing) this scene/line from the 1997 Special Edition laserdiscs and inserting into their transfer of the Definitive or Faces set? I know Laserman, you said you might do a lot of cutting and pasting using the laserdisc sets and the new upcoming dvds...is that still the route you're taking?

I also want to ask again if anyone is using a Mac for their encoding/transfering/etc. I would really like to know what software and settings would be best...

Anyway thanks again guys.
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For Audio capture, just capture the PCM data stream directly. That way you get no degradation at all.
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My motherboard has a C-Media builti-in soundcard with coxial/optical digital in/outs. Makes it very easy.

Laserman, have you read my message to you?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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So are there any bootleg DVD's of the Star Wars tangents? Like the Holiday Special or the Ewok Aventure?
Schnapple