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Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD? — Page 3

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Originally posted by: JarHead413
So apparently Paramount and Dreamworks are now exclusively HD-DVD. Fuck a goddamn duck. All I wanted was Transformers on bluray....now nothing.

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Um, and where have you been for the past two days?
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
The primary thing that's evil about the HD-DVD versus BD war is the copy protection nonsense and BD is worse on that end. Still, it's the superior format and should win. Hopefully it will.

I can't wait to see Microsoft get a powerful punch in the gut. The way they pretend to know so much is laughable to me.


They are the same on the copy protection nonsense. Look up the specs. They both have the same capabilities on that.

The primary thing that's evil about the war is that the formats are completely incompatible.

HD-DVD could lose and it wouldn't really bother Microsoft any. $150 million is nothing to a company with NO DEBT and BILLIONS in the bank. By having the studios split, it delays consumer adoption which in turn pushes consumers to use online capabilities instead. NetFlix and iTunes can both deliver HD content over the Internet. If those really catch on then the hi-def formats will be relegated to a niche market.
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When I referred to seeing something in 720p, I was referring to the extra features, not the movie itself. Because they're usually just interviews of people talking. But personally, I don't care about seeing something in 1080p even though my family does have an HD tv. Even though it's by Sony (Wega LCD) and sucks, I'm still want blu-ray to win.

And finally having read the latest news on the digital bits, I'm pretty pissed at Microsoft too. Did they pay Michael Bay to flip flop too in his comments. Ok fine, HD has some cool features and new players will become pretty cheap. But that doesn't mean you have to screw over those with blu-ray and artificially prolong this format war for Microsoft's ulterior motive.

This is something everyone here should be angry about. The sooner the format war ends, the quicker recordable blank HD media (prefereably blu-ray since it holds more data) and burners will catch on. That would help so many people with all their dvd projects here. I'm sure the X0 project for example would love not having to split each uncompressed movie capture onto something like 8 discs. And we would be able to see their final result in a less compressed format.
I recently spent a lot of money to upgrade my computer to capture uncompressed video with the HuffyUV codec. It takes up more space but hey, I can buy a bigger harddrive. They now cost half for twice the data than when I last bought one in July '04. I would like a similar improvement in disc media to come eventually because I want my own videos to look the best possible. Having to squeeze them onto a dvd, even dual layer, would make all that effort to get better captures not count for much.

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Unless you have an HD camcorder, then it doesn't really matter if you capture and then burn uncompressed. The video is still only going to be 480i (possibly 480p).

And again, the extras on the Blade Runner set are all 480p, so they're not taking up any more room then they would be if they were on regular DVDs. The only thing taking up all the space is the main feature, which is 1080p if I'm not mistaken.
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Originally posted by: lordjediMicrosoft has ever put such nasty software on computers that was so bad that it took a reformat to get it off.



Apparently you've never used windows


Microsoft is one of the worst offenders of monopolistic and predatory business tactics in the last 20 years...
Look how long this list is

Toshiba is nowhere near as nasty as Microsoft but they have managed to screw over their customers too...
1 Billion dollar settlement


All I'm saying is once a business gets to a certain size, sooner or later they'll screw the consumer... no exceptions... even Google with their "Do no evil" mantra... I guess from their point of view aiding the Chinese government's internal censorship agenda is A-OK... apparently the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened if you use google in China.
Do no evil?

Overall the world can be a pretty nasty place... better get a helmet.



Also on side note the real reason Microsoft joined up with Toshiba is prolong the format war so there is no unified disc based HD... so low consumer adoption. Think about it, Microsoft is not a movie studio nor major AV hardware manufacturer. Microsoft is a software developer who just so happen to want direct movie downloads instead of disc-based media... guess who they want be delivering those movies to your living room... tadah... Microsoft
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Uncompressed (with lossless HuffyUV) captures make a difference, even if the source is only from Hi8 which has roughly the same resolution as s-vhs or laserdisc.
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=7640&STARTPAGE=3

And burning to dvd uncompressed (or at least far less compressed with a higher quality codec) would be possible with a blu-ray disc Maintaining the most quality is something that's very important to me. Sure, Hi8 video obviously won't use as much space as HD video but it still loses quality with lossy compression.

If the extra's on the Blade Runner dvd will be in 480p (wouldn't it be 720p since that's what regular dvd has anyways), then it might be interesting to compare the blu-ray and dvd versions to see if the less compressed blu-ray looks any clearer. Was Empire of Dreams on the '04 bonus disc 480p or 720p?

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Originally posted by: lordjedi
They are the same on the copy protection nonsense. Look up the specs. They both have the same capabilities on that.

True, but capabilities are different from implementation.


Originally posted by: lordjedi
HD-DVD could lose and it wouldn't really bother Microsoft any. $150 million is nothing to a company with NO DEBT and BILLIONS in the bank. By having the studios split, it delays consumer adoption which in turn pushes consumers to use online capabilities instead. NetFlix and iTunes can both deliver HD content over the Internet. If those really catch on then the hi-def formats will be relegated to a niche market.

I think Microsoft wants HD-DVD to lose but not before it can cause Blu-ray to lose as well. They're so arrogant that they actually think they can somehow force movie downloads to become the home-video-market standard. As if people would currently want to download their movies onto their hard drive instead of owning a more permanent recording. Downloading media still takes too long (at least in comparison to the quality of the video/audio) and Hollywood's desired copy protection makes downloaded content that much more obnoxious. Oh, and Vista sucks ass.


Originally posted by: dumb_kid
Originally posted by: lordjediMicrosoft has ever put such nasty software on computers that was so bad that it took a reformat to get it off.


Apparently you've never used windows


lol

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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because paramount exclusively promotes HD-DVD does that mean indiana jones we be on that format?

does the fact that fox backs blu ray mean star wars for blu ray?

paramount could have done a lot of damage to blu ray in november or october of this year with the release of star trek only on HD-DVD. problem is they got greedy on the price, no one except for very rich trekkies will pay over 200 dollars for one seasons worth of a tv show even if it is trek remastered in 1080P with never before seen behind the scenes footage.

the price for the heroes season one set in comparison while not cheap is fair considering the extras and exclusivetey to HD-DVD.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Uncompressed (with lossless HuffyUV) captures make a difference, even if the source is only from Hi8 which has roughly the same resolution as s-vhs or laserdisc.
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=7640&STARTPAGE=3

And burning to dvd uncompressed (or at least far less compressed with a higher quality codec) would be possible with a blu-ray disc Maintaining the most quality is something that's very important to me. Sure, Hi8 video obviously won't use as much space as HD video but it still loses quality with lossy compression.

If the extra's on the Blade Runner dvd will be in 480p (wouldn't it be 720p since that's what regular dvd has anyways), then it might be interesting to compare the blu-ray and dvd versions to see if the less compressed blu-ray looks any clearer. Was Empire of Dreams on the '04 bonus disc 480p or 720p?


Regular DVD is 480p. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are 720p and higher, with most movies, that I've seen, being in 1080p.

Would you even be able to play the Blu-Ray disc with uncompressed video though? Sure, you'd be able to play it on a media center PC or a regular computer, but you wouldn't be able to put it in a Blu-Ray player and watch it. You'd have to at least compress the video with mpeg2 or VC-1 in order for the player to recognize it. Even if you could play it, you're still not gaining anything in resolution. All you're gaining is file size. It would also be a lot more CPU intensive to watch the video uncompressed (I've seen that first hand with my own MiniDV tapes which have an even higher resolution than Hi8).

Yes, an uncompressed capture is the way to go, but it's not really good for anything other than archiving. Once you've got it captured, storing it somewhere permanent is great if you'll ever need it again. Of course, even for those purposes, a hard drive is far better than optical media. Optical media tends to degrade over time unless it's treated properly. With a hard drive all you have to do is make sure you have at least two copies on two different disks. As long as you can keep that redundancy in place, you won't have any problems.
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Originally posted by: dumb_kid
Originally posted by: lordjediMicrosoft has ever put such nasty software on computers that was so bad that it took a reformat to get it off.



Apparently you've never used windows



Yeah, like I didn't see that one coming. Have you bought a Sony music CD in the past year? Have you put it in your computer and had the nasty ass rootkit that requires a REFORMAT of your system to get rid of? That's what I mean by evil. Windows, for all the complaining people do about it, is actually quite stable. You probably posted your message from a Windows computer.

I'm fully aware of Microsoft's monopolistic practices, which is why they're watched like a hawk by almost everybody these days.

Originally posted by: dumb_kid
All I'm saying is once a business gets to a certain size, sooner or later they'll screw the consumer... no exceptions... even Google with their "Do no evil" mantra... I guess from their point of view aiding the Chinese government's internal censorship agenda is A-OK... apparently the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened if you use google in China.
Do no evil?


Aiding? Oh please. Let's see, they either follow the Chinese governments rules on Internet access or they don't get in the Chinese market. And it's not just if you use Google that the Tiananmen (sic) Square massacre never happened, that's government propaganda and brainwashing. Some of their people really don't believe it ever happened. Just like some Americans will tell you the moon landings were filmed on a sound stage.

Originally posted by: dumb_kid
Also on side note the real reason Microsoft joined up with Toshiba is prolong the format war so there is no unified disc based HD... so low consumer adoption. Think about it, Microsoft is not a movie studio nor major AV hardware manufacturer. Microsoft is a software developer who just so happen to want direct movie downloads instead of disc-based media... guess who they want be delivering those movies to your living room... tadah... Microsoft


Ahh, so you chose to ignore the end of my post where I mentioned iTunes and Netflix.
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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
because paramount exclusively promotes HD-DVD does that mean indiana jones we be on that format?


Not likely. It's a Spielberg movie so he makes all the decisions on which format those come out on.

Do any of you guys read thedigitalbits? They've been absolutely spot on on this whole thing. Right now, we're at a tipping point. If Warner decides to go exclusive to HD-DVD, the studios will be evenly split. Unless a dual format player hits the market this Christmas at $500 or lower (that's about the sweet spot for consumer adoption) or next Christmas at the absolute latest, the format war will end with BOTH formats becoming a niche market. People, by that time, will have moved on to HD movies via download, where the "format" war will just depend on installing a new codec on the media center PC or standalone desktop.

Of course, the bits doesn't think a dual format player is the way to go at all. I don't necessarily either, but I see it as the only way for consumers to stop caring which movie comes out on which format and just buy whichever one because they'll have a player that can do both.
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The interesting thing about this format race is that if one of them wins then that will be all we'll ever need, and yet neither of them might end up winning. And before you start saying "but what about regular ol' dvd?", well, that's what I used to say until I found out about how dvd's compatibility with the existing NTSC and PAL analog systems introduces issues like speedup and jitters.

Since we're never going to be able to just que up a 35mm reel or install a 2k system in our rooms (ok, I won't say never .... and I won't speak for everyone here), either of these new formats are the next best thing. If I knew for sure that one of them was going to eventually win, I'd stop buying dvd's now and just wait until I can pick up that five-disc Blade Runner set in high def. I think the studios just realize that high def is the future and - to paraphrase that WIRED magazine guy from the GOUT attack of the show interview - now that we're finally at the point where we can have all we'll ever need, they're not giving it to us.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
The interesting thing about this format race is that if one of them wins then that will be all we'll ever need, and yet neither of them might end up winning. And before you start saying "but what about regular ol' dvd?", well, that's what I used to say until I found out about how dvd's compatibility with the existing NTSC and PAL analog systems introduces issues like speedup and jitters.

Oh please. DVD is an established format. The average consumer hasn't stopped buying DVDs while waiting for the format war to end. Nope, they're buying regular DVDs and either putting them into an upconverting DVD player or just dealing with the way it looks (which isn't all that bad, but it's not great either).

Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Since we're never going to be able to just que up a 35mm reel or install a 2k system in our rooms (ok, I won't say never .... and I won't speak for everyone here), either of these new formats are the next best thing. If I knew for sure that one of them was going to eventually win, I'd stop buying dvd's now and just wait until I can pick up that five-disc Blade Runner set in high def. I think the studios just realize that high def is the future and - to paraphrase that WIRED magazine guy from the GOUT attack of the show interview - now that we're finally at the point where we can have all we'll ever need, they're not giving it to us.


This has got to be a joke. "We've got all we'll ever need" has been said about every new format and every single new format that has come after has proven that they just keep getting better. 8 track was the best for its time until the cassette tape came along. That was great until CDs came along. SACD and DVD-Audio were even better, but they were competing formats so neither one took off (oh, look at that, just like HD-DVD and Blu-Ray).

If one format takes off and wins, that'll be the format we'll have for the next 5 to 10 years until something even better comes along. Then we'll all want that. It's a never ending cycle, so let's not pretend that this will be the last thing we'll ever need.
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they really have to lower the players prices, and the cost of the movies as well as the costs of HDTV sets or it will end up being a niche market like laserdisc was, while vhs was the mainstream. instead of vhs dvd will be mainstream for instance when put up against the HD stuff.

i think HD is the wave of the future but the companies greed and lack of intelligence may kill both formats.

Plus a lot of people are happy with quality that is not even up to par with dvd, people who download shit quality avi or whatever formats to there ipod or psp.

to get the most out of the picture and sound of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray you have to be xtremeley wealthy and have a setup that displays six times the resolution of dvd and 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio home audio setup.

once they come out with cheap recordable blu ray or HD-DVD drives and afforbable 1080P computer monitors i'll go HD, until then i can live with what i have.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
they really have to lower the players prices, and the cost of the movies as well as the costs of HDTV sets or it will end up being a niche market like laserdisc was, while vhs was the mainstream. instead of vhs dvd will be mainstream for instance when put up against the HD stuff.

i think HD is the wave of the future but the companies greed and lack of intelligence may kill both formats.

Plus a lot of people are happy with quality that is not even up to par with dvd, people who download shit quality avi or whatever formats to there ipod or psp.

to get the most out of the picture and sound of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray you have to be xtremeley wealthy and have a setup that displays six times the resolution of dvd and 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio home audio setup.

once they come out with cheap recordable blu ray or HD-DVD drives and afforbable 1080P computer monitors i'll go HD, until then i can live with what i have.


HDTVs are extremely affordable these days. You can get a 40" LCD HDTV for well under $2000 and a lot of them are under $1500. The cost of Blu-Ray players are also under $500. The problem isn't the price of the sets or the players. The problem is the multiple formats.

HDTVs sold extremely well this past Christmas season. If there were a single hi-def format, it would have easily sold just as well. Since there wasn't, people snatched up HDTVs, but didn't get the hi-def players and movies because of the competing formats. People didn't know which one to get, so they got neither and stuck with DVD.

You do not have to be extremely wealthy these days to get a good experience. You can have a perfectly good experience for about $2500. That's about a months pay for your average consumer (unless you're talking about consumers making less than $40k per year, which aren't average when you're talking about buying HD sets and players).

In a nutshell, HDTVs are pretty cheap these days. 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 setups are also pretty cheap (I'm not talking about a $2000 or a $5000 setup, a $500 setup is more than sufficient for most people). HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are pretty cheap too. The movies aren't cheap themselves, but you'd need two players to play both formats. People don't want that. They don't want two players in their entertainment center. They don't want to have to switch the input on their TV just to watch a different format.

I'll go HD as soon as there's 1) a dual format player that is completely compatible with both formats or 2) there's one format to choose from. I may not even have a 5.1 audio system, but the clarity of hi-def has me hooked (I have a 50" HDTV CRT that does 1080i, it cost me less than $1000 and that was a year ago).
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no one in my family makes close to even 40k per year and the last crt i bought for under a couple hundred.

2000 dollars is still way to much money to spend if you have to buy food and pay your rent, LOL.


to me either it has to cost me under a thousand bucks or if i save up money no more than 1,500 for both the player the Tv and the audio setup. whcih means i'm waiting at least 2 years until the 1080P tvs come down in price.

the cheapest setup i've priced with the help of gamepro magazine is a pS3 and HDTV combo together for 1,500.

Better start saving up, LOL

my bros friend got a dislay unit sony wega 1080P at costco for only 600 bucks but of course he had to know somebody who worked there.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
no one in my family makes close to even 40k per year and the last crt i bought for under a couple hundred.


Not even your parents? Of course no one in high school or college or even just starting their career will be able to afford it. Anyone in an established career should have no problem with saving that much money in a few months though. That's like the down payment on a new car.

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well my dad makes about 80 to 90 grand a year but i live with my poor disabled mom, my dads an asshole who does not care whether i live or die.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
no one in my family makes close to even 40k per year and the last crt i bought for under a couple hundred.


Not even your parents? Of course no one in high school or college or even just starting their career will be able to afford it. .


I don't make much and I still have an HDTV and a HD-DVD player. It just depends what you spend your money on. A vacation to disney world for 4-5 days is a thousand bucks. Dinner out with the girlfriend is $50. Putting new rims on a car is $500 or some crap. Even talking on a cell phone for a 1000 or so unnecessary minutes a month is $70. What I'm trying to say is that I don't need any of this shit (save for the occasional dinner out with my girlfriend in order to keep her around) so I have plenty of money to spend on home entertainment toys.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
HDTVs are extremely affordable these days. You can get a 40" LCD HDTV for well under $2000 and a lot of them are under $1500.


Extremely affordable is an extremely relative thing. My TV costs $139 and my DVD player $35. My PS2 was given to me and my N64 is left over from my High-school/College days. There is my entire entertainment center. I guess if I wanted to, I could run out and buy a HDTV and a HDDVD or Blu-Ray player and still have plenty of money to buy food and pay my rent. But from my point of view that is a crap load of money to spent on entertainment. I would consider my $139 dollar or my $35 dollar TV extremely affordable (I would even consider the price difference from my tv to a 50 inch SDTV well within the extremely affordable range), I would consider a HDTV setup a very painful blow to my bank account. I still think the HD route is a niche market at the moment. Once standard def is out of the picture and you can buy an HDTV for $300 or under and a player for $50 or so (it honestly didn't take long for DVD to get that cheap), then I will consider it extremely affordable.

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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Since we're never going to be able to just que up a 35mm reel or install a 2k system in our rooms (ok, I won't say never .... and I won't speak for everyone here), either of these new formats are the next best thing. If I knew for sure that one of them was going to eventually win, I'd stop buying dvd's now and just wait until I can pick up that five-disc Blade Runner set in high def. I think the studios just realize that high def is the future and - to paraphrase that WIRED magazine guy from the GOUT attack of the show interview - now that we're finally at the point where we can have all we'll ever need, they're not giving it to us.


This has got to be a joke. "We've got all we'll ever need" has been said about every new format and every single new format that has come after has proven that they just keep getting better. 8 track was the best for its time until the cassette tape came along. That was great until CDs came along. SACD and DVD-Audio were even better, but they were competing formats so neither one took off (oh, look at that, just like HD-DVD and Blu-Ray).

If one format takes off and wins, that'll be the format we'll have for the next 5 to 10 years until something even better comes along. Then we'll all want that. It's a never ending cycle, so let's not pretend that this will be the last thing we'll ever need.


Actually, my whole point was that it has become a joke and I think the reason this format race is happening is that the studios on either side realize just how much they have to lose by not winning. Whoever wins will control the format that will be around for far longer than ten years because please tell me, what exactly is going to step in to sweep away 1080p?
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Actually, my whole point was that it has become a joke and I think the reason this format race is happening is that the studios on either side realize just how much they have to lose by not winning. Whoever wins will control the format that will be around for far longer than ten years because please tell me, what exactly is going to step in to sweep away 1080p?


I have no idea. But do you think people even considered that when DVD was introduced? Do you think people stopped and thought "It can't possibly get better than this" or "This looks terrific, there's no way we'll ever need anything better". I'm betting the average consumer might have thought that, but the average techie knew that eventually, something else would pop up.

If I was a betting man, I'd say that downloadable content is going to sweep away physical media. People will have DVRs hooked up to home networks and they'll be able to access their content from anywhere in the world. Going to your in-laws for Christmas? No problem, you can access all your movies from anywhere.

Who really knows though. 50 years ago, a 13" tv set was probably considered huge. 50 years from now that could be up to a wall sized display (it wouldn't surprise me if that happened within the next 20 years though).

This format war really has less to do with long term profit and more to do with short term profit. If it really had to do with the long term, Paramount and DreamWorks would've thumbed their noses at Microsoft. Instead, they took the quick, short term payment with an 18 month contract, which is just enough time to kill both formats. The studios would do nothing but gain if they chose a single format. They're losing everything right now by being split.
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the studios are driven by what they always have been greed.

i'm surprised lucas is not trying to capitilize on the situation by having star wars on both formats since he had star wars on betamax, laserdisc, vhs, ced, and vhd back in the day.

well even paramount outdid him there they had star trek on the cdi video format, and on hi8 videotape, lol.

HVD is supposed to come out by the year 2010, or holographic versatile disc. fits terrabytes of data, LOL

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
HVD is supposed to come out by the year 2010, or holographic versatile disc. fits terrabytes of data, LOL


If they have a unified standard in place, maybe we will be skipping the Blu-ray HD-DVD phase.

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