Sign In

Blade Runner: The Version You've Never Seen Before (Update: Beta available) — Page 2

Author
Time
This really, really sounds interesting Zombie - I was kinda dissapointed by the Final Cut, but yours looks inspired.

One thing though, are you going to include the shots of Deckard and Batty outside JF's apartment?
It's not what you know, it's who you kill.
Author
Time
I was kinda dissapointed by the Final Cut


I know its kinda off topic for this thread, sorry, but why were you disappointed with the Final Cut?
Author
Time
Don't get me wrong it's still a 10/10 movie - I was just a little underwhelmed by just how similar it was to all the other versions (bar the Workprint - which is my fav cut) The Theatrical, International and so-called Director's Cut's are essentially the same (not counting, violence, narration, ending and awful wobbly unicorn insert). What I did enjoy on the Final Cut were the slight tweeks to the old FX (ie wires on spinners etc) and the much better unicorn revere. I didn't like the new colour timing however - the colors looked perfectly fine before. And considering just how much great material there is left over from the original 4 hour cut - I was expecting a bit more of it to find its way into a 5th!!! and Final version. But yeah maybe I'm nitpicking, but hey I'm a fan its what I do best.

Anyway I am really looking forward to this edit of the movie. Hurry up Zombie.
It's not what you know, it's who you kill.
Author
Time
Really looking forward to this! 'course, I'm just the new guy around here and don't have much to offer, but I'd love to see this. I got the FC the other day (just the 2disc version) and haven't seen the other versions since they first came out. Seeing the FC cut tho reminded me on how good a film this is and a cut that incorporates all the extra stuff/cuts out all the junk...well, just want to say THANKS to Zombie for making the effort and spending what I'm sure is a bunch of time on doing it.
Author
Time
I think it's unfair to say the Final Cut was disappointing because there wasn't more new footage... slight changes in a movie can amount to a big difference; simply removing the voice over and adding the unicorn dream were enough to transform the movie.

While I think everyone has a right to make whatever fan edit they want, so many of them are just the same movie with deleted scenes cut back in, it almost seems pointless. Just because it's different, or longer, doesn't make it better.

Wanting to make a new version of Blade Runner just because the Final Cut wasn't different enough doesn't seem like the right motivation. Remember, fan edits started when the Phantom Editor saw Episode One and thought, "Despite all the bad stuff in that movie, I think there is a good movie in there somewhere.. with some editing and re-structuring, I bet I can make that movie come to life!"

That is the essense of what editing is all about. It would be more fun to see someone turn Blade Runner into a straight action movie, or somehow re-edit to truly make Roy the hero and Deckard the bad guy. Not that I think this would make it a better movie, but at least it would be editing to change the feel and point of a film as opposed to just making it longer.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Mojo_LA


That is the essense of what editing is all about. It would be more fun to see someone turn Blade Runner into a straight action movie, or somehow re-edit to truly make Roy the hero and Deckard the bad guy. Not that I think this would make it a better movie, but at least it would be editing to change the feel and point of a film as opposed to just making it longer.


Fan editing certainly predates 1999 and the Phantom Editor. Fan editing may be a movement of kids with computers trying to turn crappy movies into good ones (which in the end usually just turn out to be a crappy movie with crappy amaturish editing). I must say ADM's edits have been among the few fan edits I have seen that were watchable, and his are for the most part extended editions. I find fan made extended editions, remade workprints and the likes are where fan editing really shines. When you take a movie that was intended to be something, and turn it into something that is wasn't intended to be, your chances of success are just about non existent. The idea of doing an edit to try to do something as extreme as "make Roy the hero and Deckard the bad guy" is pretty silly. That wasn't the way the movie was intended to be, and it would be impossible to pull it off and make it a watchable film. The characters and their on screen stories, actions, and attitudes wouldn't match up to what you are trying to make them be. There is nothing wrong with making an alternative version. You can't say, "that is doing it for the wrong reasons". If those are the wrong reasons then what are the right reasons? The idea with this edit is to have a way to watch the same movie but with all the alternative footage used, which is a great idea and a good way to see all the changes at once. Zombie knows his stuff, and he certainly knows Blade Runner. This is not the Phantom Menance or War of the Worlds, with a movie that is as great as BR the only story line changes you could make are bad ones.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
Well, as I said in one of my first sentences, I'm not trying to make the film "better". How could I possibly improve on Blade Runner anyway?

I think some people misunderstand the purpose the extended cuts, etc., where exercised material is re-inserted. Sometimes the results are positive (ie the Donner Superman re-constructions, before the proper Donner Cut was released) but often they are inferior to the original form--but thats not really the point. This forum is also for preservations, and the act of re-construction early cuts of films are both educational and historically interesting for true film buffs--they provide an example of what a particular film would have looked and felt like in its earliest form. They give insight into a film's construction, its form, and the creative process which shaped it, and they provide fascinating example of what-could-have-been, not fan-made fantasies (as re-editing to make Roy the hero) but legitimate possibilities that the filmmakers could have taken--and, since most of these edits are made from available sources, the possibilities the filmmakers did pursue at one point but then ultimately abandoned. Fan edits like Shroud of the Darkside and such are interesting as well, but they are of a different nature than the type of "extended edits" we often see, and as this example is. This edit is basically the Assembly Cut of Blade Runner--the earliest possible version with every scene shot and all the early editing choices. Its not 100% that, but thats basically the value.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

Author
Time
I think it's unfair to say the Final Cut was disappointing because there wasn't more new footage...

My point is simply that prior to the Final Cut there were 4 versions (incredible to think about it really) of the SAME GREAT movie - with little difference between them IMO. So when we get to cut # 5 its essentialy the same old same old yet again. Now I AM a fan of the movie in all its versions (and have owned every VHS, Laserdisc, DVD and Blu Ray release) but somewhere deep down the cynic in me cries money for old rope. Sorry. The fact that Ridley Scott first prepared a 4 hour version of the movie gets this fan salavating for a taste of what's out there - especially after seeing some of it in the recent documentary and its supplementals - and that's were Fan Edits come in. Studios aren't bothered about releasing such stuff to the public so its left to hardcore fans to sort out. Again just my opinion s'all and it means nothing to nobody but me.
It's not what you know, it's who you kill.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Alucard
I think it's unfair to say the Final Cut was disappointing because there wasn't more new footage...

My point is simply that prior to the Final Cut there were 4 versions (incredible to think about it really) of the SAME GREAT movie - with little difference between them IMO. So when we get to cut # 5 its essentialy the same old same old yet again. Now I AM a fan of the movie in all its versions (and have owned every VHS, Laserdisc, DVD and Blu Ray release) but somewhere deep down the cynic in me cries money for old rope. Sorry. The fact that Ridley Scott first prepared a 4 hour version of the movie gets this fan salavating for a taste of what's out there - especially after seeing some of it in the recent documentary and its supplementals - and that's were Fan Edits come in. Studios aren't bothered about releasing such stuff to the public so its left to hardcore fans to sort out. Again just my opinion s'all and it means nothing to nobody but me.


Actually, Warners released perhaps the world's only home video of a workprint cut, barring Alien 3's Assembly Cut., but that was spruced up and altered.

A new version of BR every 15 years is not a big deal, especially considering the history (ie Scott wanted to do the FC in 1992 but Warner wouldn't let him). And its a bargain when you consider the entire film was remastered--a new 4k/8k DI with improved coloring, digital restoration and digital compositing, plus a new state of the art mix. So on top of that you get an improved version of the rough Director's Cut. The way DVD releases go, this is as admirable a re-issue as there ever has been.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

Author
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Actually, Warners released perhaps the world's only home video of a workprint cut, barring Alien 3's Assembly Cut., but that was spruced up and altered.

I think that the SE DVD of Disney's Beauty and the Beast has an animatic workprint version of the flick, and I know that the SE Heavy Metal DVD has a workprint version on there as well. I can't think of any live-action movies that have had workprint releases aside from BR, though.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
If I remember, I do believe there's a workprint cut of the '89 "Punisher" film on a foreign official release. Other than that, I have no idea.
Author
Time
^You can also get the workprint version of An American Werewolf in Paris on Aussie region 4.
Author
Time
Zombie,

I love your idea for this, and I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Tangential question: In the Dangerous Days documentary they showed the storyboards for the alternate opening sequence where Deckard retires the replicant at the farm. I've read online (like Wikipedia or IMDB) about this before, and I what I read implied that these scenes were actually filmed. Do you know if they were?

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

Author
Time
Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
If I remember, I do believe there's a workprint cut of the '89 "Punisher" film on a foreign official release. Other than that, I have no idea.


The Punisher workprint is actually a bootleg that managed to gain official circulation in Germany - this is very common in that country. Phantasm II is another German release that illegally had its workprint as an extra.

And Erikstormtrooper - I haven't read those sources so can't say for sure, but I'm guessing if those scenes were filmed they would have made it onto the DVD. Certainly everything else was.


Author
Time
If you watched that documentary on the workprint disc, they talked about pulling the reels of film out of storage and there were several slats stacks up high with film canisters all containing footage from BR. I'd imagine that out of all that there would be a good deal of filmed footage that was not used. Even if the farm scene was filmed, I don't suppose it is likely ever to see the light of day. The fact that it was not in the movie to begin with shows they either scrapped the idea before they filmed it, or they filmed it and decided that they didn't quite like it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
The farm scene was not filmed.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

Author
Time
I agree that "Blade Runner - The Assembly Edit" would be a good and descriptive title of this version.

And yes, ADM's work is good, but essentially most of his edits are extended cuts I have no interest in.

Also, I wasn't insunuating that a straight action cut of BR with black & white portrayals of good guy/bad guy was a good idea; I was just saying I'd PREFER to see a fan edit take chances and do something unique as opposed to just re-inserting deleted scenes.

Interestingly, the "play all" feature on the deleted scenes for the new 5-disc set is practically a fan edit of the movie... have you see it? They've taken all the deleted scenes and unused narration and basically made a 45 minute alternate version of "Blade Runner" that has a very different feel from the original.

As far as people being disappointed by the lack of major changes in the "Final Cut" vs the "Director's Cut," I can see that point, but let's be honest, the Final Cut isn't the star attraction of the new DVD box set - it's all the amazing extras, behind the scenes material and archive stuff. THAT is why you buy this set, not for the movie.

To me, the movie itself is the bonus material!
Author
Time
It's not what you know, it's who you kill.
Author
Time
Hey Zombie, how's the progress on this going?
It's not what you know, it's who you kill.
Author
Time
Hello there BR fans.

I have a BR fan DVD I bought off eBay a few years back.
along with the Edge of Blade Runner doc that everyone is familiar with their is a 11 min TV clip compo.
It starts with I think it's from 100 greatest films.

It was hosted by Graham Norton and contains clips from the interviews of Edge of.. along with fawning praise from writer Johnathan Glancey (no never heard of him either) and Graham Linehan of Father Ted, Black Books and IT crowd fame.

It then cuts to another 5 min clip of more praise from the film this time by some guy wearing a Black Dog t-shirt and then ends with a trailer.

Is this of use to anyone?

Mac

I would love to get hold of some ADigitalMan Extended Editions if anyone can help out. Monty Python's Life Of Brian, Love Actually Bloated and Flatulent. Ta!

Author
Time

So Zombie, are you still working on this? It's something I've been looking forward to.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Sooo, in case anyone remembers this project, little sidenote. I got distracted with other things which pushed this into summer of 2008, then my harddrive crashed and took everything with it. So, I sorta gave up on this.

Spur of the moment, I decided to do this again today. I'm getting close to finishing a rough cut, and hopefully can have it out by end of next week. Luckily, my original post was a good guide for me to quickly reconstruct the original. This is just being done in Womble, so the quality will not be amazing or anything, but seeing the first pass at this for the first time, I'm amazed at how different the film plays out.

To do still:

-Add the workprint footage. I've tossed aside the idea of using workprint audio where possible--too much work. I'll probably use it for the piano scene though, because it sounds really cool. Where possible, I'll also be cutting the theatrical picture to match the workprint editing, rather than using the workprint itself unless it has unique shots (don't know why I didn't think of this earlier). It will mainly be the opening scene and climax sequence that is comprised of workprint footage. Because it is self-contained sequences, I may not crop it and leave it as 2.20 or whatever it is.

-Add the dailies footage. I don't think I am going to go quite as extreme as I originally wanted, just out of laziness. Def having the replicant dog, Batty electrocuting himself, tub girl (hehe), Pris with rats, and a couple neat shots I remember from Deckard's apartment. I need to go through some of the docs and see if there is any other footage that really sticks out.

-Sound work. Need to make the audio smooth, also having some sync issues that seems to plague Womble. You can't really do audio effects in Womble can you?  Anyway, there isn't much sound editing to do other than fading the levels on the transitions, which I haven't figured out how to do just yet and aren't sure if it's possible in Womble.

I'm also taking the slightest of liberties with my own cuts. This is because, with all the extra footage, some sections become bloated and dragging, and the pacing changes too, so I am taking a couple trims to some scenes (for instance, the Zhora chase sequence now needs to be trimmer and quicker). I'm also not sticking totally faithfully to the deleted and alternate scenes, so even if you've seen them this will be new. This was because the alternate versions ended up basically narrating the entire film in voiceover and skipping huge sections, so it sounded like a narrated version of the real film. For instance, the Zhora chase is skipped in the alternate scene--I've kept the abbreviated intro with all the voiceover, but instead of cutting to Zhora being shot, I cut to the fight in the dressing room, so this exciting scene can remain intact. The film needs some action at this point and I don't want it to become boring to watch, but I've also done some subtle tightening of the hunt scene. So some of the narrated alternate scenes are broken up with dramatic footage. I think this makes it more like a hard-boiled detective film, which had this kind of structure rather than relying on narration to move whole sections of the film (it's surprising how much narration there is in the alt scenes).

I also am for the moment including both alternate endings, edited into each other (with one brief, redundant moment snipped out, since we see this happen in the first version--"This is the happiest day of my life". Seemed dumb to have her say it, and then Deckard tell us that she said it).

One thing I have noticed is that deleted scenes are timed more neutral and with more midrange, while the actual film is more blue and with more contrast. Sometimes this looks a bit noticeable while cutting back and forth but oh well.

So yeah. I think Blade Runner fans will find this interesting to watch, even if it's not going to be spectacularly polished in the technical sense. Hope to have this available soonish.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

Author
Time
 (Edited)

After playing around with the workprint footage, I am definitely scaling it back. The aspect ratio change is a bit of a problem, but the difference is not extreme so it's not a deal breaker; the problem is that the contrast and just general murkiness makes it uncuttable most of the time, it just won't cut in with the regular footage without jumping out at the audience, and it's hard on the eyes too. The alternate opening sequence works very well and will stay. The alternate climax is in for now, but certain parts of it are quite murky and hard to see, so I might axe it in favour of the theatrical version (it also makes cutting in dailies footage all the more difficult, both because of the clarity and low contrast and also because of the different aspect ratio).

Finally, there is an alternate opening credits, but I think I am just going to stick with the workprint credits. I could make it work to have them both in, but the music transition isn't very smooth and I don't think the alternate credits really adds anything.

Otherwise it's all coming along rather well. The running time is about 2 hrs 1 minute right now, and I expect it will stay that way even with a few added shots since there are a few more trims I would like to make. I don't know exactly how much of the total film is comprised of theatrical version footage but I would say about 35% so this is quite a radical re-interpretation of the film. Few films have this much alternate and cut footage available to the public.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

Author
Time

Hi Zombie! You got me curious, what's the original unused narrative like? I would guess different since you're using it, but I actually liked what I saw in the theatrical version with it. What makes it better?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em