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Blade Runner Color Regrade

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 (Edited)

Branching off the discussion in the Alien/Aliens Color Regrade thread here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Alien-Aliens-Color-Regrade/topic/17002/page/5/

While taking a break from grading Alien, I posed a question whether anyone was interested in a color regrade of Blade Runner. Using a 80s era laserdisc someone uploaded to the spleen. I regraded parts of Blade Runner to see the results.

 

Project Info:

This was originally an experimental regrade to an old pan and scan LD until Jonno provided me with a capture of the vastly superior Criterion Collection laserdisc of the International Cut.So now it is a regrade to that laserdisc.

Video:

2013 Blu-Ray of the International Cut (IC) regraded to the 1989 Criterion Collection (CC) Laserdisc (LD)

Audio:

1. PCM 2.0 (from the Criterion Collection International Cut LD-Narration) 

2. Dolby Digital 5.1 (from the Warner Bros International Cut BD-Narration)

3. PCM 2.0 (from the Warner Bros Director's Cut LD-No Narration mixed with the IC's Laserdisc PCM 2.0 and parts of musical score to fill the gaps)

Subtitles:

English (From the BD converted to SRT and SDH parts removed)

French (From the BD converted to SRT)

Spanish (From the BD converted to SRT )

Output:

MKV compatible within the spec for a 25GB BD

Pics:

BR/BR regraded to the CC LD

Thanks:

Jonno: for capturing the Criterion Collection LD

Doombot: for advice, help and testing

Buster D: for the various LD soundtracks

StarThoughts: for the music score to fix the ending

Spaced Ranger: for color correction advice

captainsolo: for information about the film and a 35mm showing

MrNiceGuy: for distribution.

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If you are in no rush - I imagine it will take a while to finish Alien first - I'll be able to capture the Criterion LD, sooner or later...

[Fundamental Collection] thread| homepage: blog.spoRv.com| fan preservation forum: fanres.com|

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This looks great! What about a 3rd audio track - score only? There are many bootleg scores available and I even have the SACD but am not sure how to rip that because of the DSD format. I'd like to help in any way I can as this is one of my favorite sci-fis!

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Hi PDB, I'm very much looking forward to your Alien (1 & 2) projects. The first movie is one of my all time favorites! (top 5 next to Terminator 1 & 2 and Conan The Barbarian : )

But Blade Runner is also movie I'm deeply fond of and I would love it to get the attention as your next project.

If you can get the Criterion LD #69 (CC1169L), it would be just perfect as it probably has the most accurate representation of the original color timming on home video).

When you get to this project. Would you consider doing both the international cut and the director's cut?

Since the BD has both cuts seamless branched (so they share the same color grading) and we already have PCM audio tracks for them too, I guess it would be possible to apply the same script to both, right?

Thanks again for your projects, I'm anxiously waiting for the Alien release.

ps: now that I've seen kaosjm post, I do have the SACD DSD and the rip (original DSD64 2.0 > 1-bit/2.8224 MHz 57:42 minutes or FLAC (converted with foobar2000 to tracks) 24bit/88,2 kHz |6/24))

ps2: it's so great that Andrea has the Criterion LD and is willing to rip it for this project) :)

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To clarify my comments from the other thread: when I said too warm, I was referring to the shot of the billboard -- not the office. That may be directly related to your wonder if it's too bright, though.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Wow how do you go about ripping from the SACD? Very cool!

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 (Edited)

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

If you are in no rush - I imagine it will take a while to finish Alien first - I'll be able to capture the Criterion LD, sooner or later...

Thanks _,,,^..^,,,_. That would be fantastic if you could capture it. I can definitely wait, its no hurry. I just got a little tired of watching Alien over and over again, so I needed a break. You know that better then me. I saw that LD on the spleen and thought I would play around with it a bit. I didn't think people would be that interested. I would prefer the Criterion, that is certainly bound to be better and maybe more accurate. 

kaosjm said:

This looks great! What about a 3rd audio track - score only? There are many bootleg scores available and I even have the SACD but am not sure how to rip that because of the DSD format. I'd like to help in any way I can as this is one of my favorite sci-fis!

I would love a third track with music only. That would definitely be a cool feature the BD doesn't have. The Vangelis score is one in a million. Problem is, I'm not good at creating a music only track. I tried it once and it was a mess. So unless someone can do it for me, I think that might be a non-starter, sadly. I might change my mind when I get further into the project and try again but I would prefer someone else's work for a music only track.

BDgeek said:

Hi PDB, I'm very much looking forward to your Alien (1 & 2) projects. The first movie is one of my all time favorites! (top 5 next to Terminator 1 & 2 and Conan The Barbarian : )

But Blade Runner is also movie I'm deeply fond of and I would love it to get the attention as your next project.

If you can get the Criterion LD #69 (CC1169L), it would be just perfect as it probably has the most accurate representation of the original color timming on home video).

When you get to this project. Would you consider doing both the international cut and the director's cut?

Since the BD has both cuts seamless branched (so they share the same color grading) and we already have PCM audio tracks for them too, I guess it would be possible to apply the same script to both, right?

Thanks again for your projects, I'm anxiously waiting for the Alien release.

ps: now that I've seen kaosjm post, I do have the SACD DSD and the rip (original DSD64 2.0 > 1-bit/2.8224 MHz 57:42 minutes or FLAC (converted with foobar2000 to tracks) 24bit/88,2 kHz |6/24))

ps2: it's so great that Andrea has the Criterion LD and is willing to rip it for this project) :)

Thanks for the words BDgeek. All of those are my favorite movies too, hence me trying these projects. I might think about the DC but I think the DC has different color timing then the US/International Cut. I could be very wrong but the US/I cuts were more golden like 80's era movie tended to be and the DC more neutral/dark like 90's era films. I could be wrong. But nothing is set in stone, so plans could change.

bkev said:

To clarify my comments from the other thread: when I said too warm, I was referring to the shot of the billboard -- not the office. That may be directly related to your wonder if it's too bright, though.

Sorry, bkev I read your original post wrong. I did try to re-grade those two scene based off want you and Andre pointed out.

BD/BD regrade to the LD

With the billboard, I originally added yellow, so the steam/rain on the side turned green. I can't tell what color it is suppose to be because it is not there in the Pan and Scan LD. So, this time I tried to keep the blue instead of the green but still have a little gold. It looks more like the original BD. For the office I toned down the green also. Here are some other in progress (experimental) pics:

BD/BD regrade to the LD

Its clear that the BD transfer suffers from unwanted green regrading like a lot of modern transfers. Its not as bad as the Final cut but clearly still there. Also the LD is definitely from a release print, doesn't mean it wasn't altered for video but it is from a release print:

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WOW, I really liked this last set of comparisons.

Just maybe not the bed shot, it looks a bit green and not so golden. 

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I love how blue this movie was in the Final Cut, it matches the mood perfectly for me.

But we all got our preferences and your re-grade looks good too.

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Gogpgadget,

but the Final Cut has a Teal/Orange color grading at not blue. And IMO that is part of the problem. I much rather have the blue/purple/gray color squeme that was much more popular in the 80ies (like Ridley Scott's own Black Rain).

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I just realized how difficult getting a score-only soundtrack may be. There are a few instances in the soundtrack that have dialogue over the score. Unless there is some bootleg release out there that has the dialogue omitted I wouldn't know how to remove it without noticeably effecting the audio quality.

For example, when Deckard enters Tyrell's office Rachel greets him, "Do you like our owl?" and that conversation is present in all of the score/soundtrack releases I've heard. I believe it occurs in other instances of the score as well where you can hear background noise and dialogue from the film.

In any case, if this were to be accomplished it would also mean getting a complete, no dialogue cut of the film score and that would be another first!

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 (Edited)

I'm not sure an isolated score track is plausible. There are a myriad of sources for Vangelis' score, but unfortunately they're all problematic.

The original soundtrack album released in '94 contains only selections of the score interspersed with new material (“Blush Response,” “Damask Rose,” “Rachel's Song,” etc.), has segments of dialogue over it, a lot of additional reverb added, and several of the tracks have been remixed or altered, such as the original synth saxophone in the “Love Theme” replaced with an acoustic performance.

There was a three-disc set that came out a few years ago, disc one was the original soundtrack album, disc two was additional music from the film, also with the additional reverb, remixing and new performances.

Bootlegs exist, and are much more satisfying in terms of representing the music as it appears in the film than Vangelis' own concept albums, but all of the ones that I've heard have had serious sound quality issues.

“That's impossible, even for a computer!”

 

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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BDgeek was nice enough to provided me with a couple of different soundtrack versions. Creating an isolated score is hard enough but after reading this I'm having even more doubts about being able to get something together. I won't know more till I listen and see what I have to work with.

For some strange reason Blade Runner is much, much easier to grade then Alien. So, in sitting around I have test graded a fare amount. Some shots I like better, some worse:

BD/BD regraded to LD

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PDB, your inbox is full!

“That's impossible, even for a computer!”

 

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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 (Edited)

StarThoughts said:

PDB, your inbox is full!

 Its clear, sorry StarThoughts, just had a lot of people PMing me lately.

Edit: If anyone wants to see what this looks like in motion, here is a segment with different coloring. Just like Alien not all of the movie is as radically different as these scenes are.

http://youtu.be/PTu_fa_rp88/

Original BD (International Cut) on the Top. Regraded to laserdisc video on the bottom. This is a WIP, so there are bound to be errors and in fact there is one shot I forgot to grade.

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Interesting comparisons PDB,

I  think all the BD teal shots looks so much better when re-times. But the more neutral shots (the Deckard and Rachel shot, and the seated Deckard shot) look better on the BD.

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BDgeek said:

Interesting comparisons PDB,

I  think all the BD teal shots looks so much better when re-times. But the more neutral shots (the Deckard and Rachel shot, and the seated Deckard shot) look better on the BD.

 Funny BDgeek. I had the opposite reaction. I really like the golden color of Tyrell's office, especially the highlights on Deckard and Rachel. I have distinct memories of it, watching the movie when I was younger. I was disappointed when the BDs had removed most traces of a golden hue. Part of the reason I wanted to do a regrade was for those Tyrell scenes. I was happy to find they were golden colored on the laserdisc. I also kind of like the blue but the LD doesn't have that so out it goes. Win some, lose some

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The positives far outweigth the negatives. I like the golden tint too, just no so much when it kinda tends to green!

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BDgeek said:

Gogpgadget,

but the Final Cut has a Teal/Orange color grading at not blue. And IMO that is part of the problem. I much rather have the blue/purple/gray color squeme that was much more popular in the 80ies (like Ridley Scott's own Black Rain).

I guess I prefer that? I don't know, I felt the colours matched the mood of what a shitty Los Angeles would be like in the unbelievably far off year of... 2019 :O

Also maybe it's just me but those indoor shots look incredibly golden, like perhaps a little bit too much gold?

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PDB said:

BDgeek was nice enough to provided me with a couple of different soundtrack versions. Creating an isolated score is hard enough but after reading this I'm having even more doubts about being able to get something together. I won't know more till I listen and see what I have to work with.

For some strange reason Blade Runner is much, much easier to grade then Alien. So, in sitting around I have test graded a fare amount. Some shots I like better, some worse:

BD/BD regraded to LD

 I really like these, especially the last one at the bottom. This looks exactly like the timing on the 80's VHS I have, which is most likely from the same transfer as the LD you are using. The VHS has those reel change markers too. That last shot at the bottom though is one of the things I've always noticed that looked radically different in any other transfer I've seen other than the VHS.

I've never seen anything other than the Final Cut in theaters, but to me the VHS look seems the most natural looking. The Director's Cut DVD also has radically different colors than the BD, but I think it's been established that the colors in that transfer were over-exaggerated.

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@ PDB

Would you post some matching Laserdisc shots (BTW, which LD release is it) used to guide your regrade?
[edit: missed the P&S laserdisc mention, above, but was looking for letterbox laserdisc samples ... any of those?]

Also, what is your procedure for color adjustments?


“Your love of the halflings’ leaf has clearly slowed your mind”

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The workprint would be a better source then the LD for colour surely 

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No... because it's a workprint.

Paul M. Sammon's notes on a screening of the WP:

Print doesn't seem properly color-corrected. Images are darker, grainier than theatrical print. Flesh-tones are off in some scenes (towards the red). Jumpy edits. Scratches. Dirt marks. Sound too high/distorted in some scenes. Image seems clipped off each side of frame - loss because of blow up/reduction?

(from Future Noir)

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Jonno said:

No... because it's a workprint.

Paul M. Sammon's notes on a screening of the WP:

Print doesn't seem properly color-corrected. Images are darker, grainier than theatrical print. Flesh-tones are off in some scenes (towards the red). Jumpy edits. Scratches. Dirt marks. Sound too high/distorted in some scenes. Image seems clipped off each side of frame - loss because of blow up/reduction?

(from Future Noir)

 that has what relation to the BD master? I too have read Noir and that was about. A crappy old 35mm reel the BD is in the correct colour space for this project for starters 

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It was a 70mm print intended for sneak previews and, because the edit hadn't been locked at that point, it would inevitably not have reached the stage of final colour grading.

The same workprint is included as a bonus in the BD set for nostalgia/completion/research purposes, either from the same 70mm print(s) that were accidentally screened in 1990 or from a 35mm reduction. It seems highly unlikely that this unfinished version would have been completely retimed to a 'final' colour scheme for the BD while the actual theatrical version included was demonstrably not.