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BioShock!!! (1, 2 and Infinite and SPOILERS) — Page 4

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By the by- the first two games (PC) are on sale in a pack for $4.99 at gamefly.com

I found a code (that I lost) that gave me 20% off, so $4!  Woop!  I already have them on Xbox, but I didn't mind snagging them for PC now that I have one that will play them.

Doesn't activate on Steam, by the way.  :(

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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So...I guess Comstock WAS at Wounded Knee after all..

Loved the atmosphere...*cough* Beach Boys..., the story was a little hit and miss - mostly great but parts felt like too much of a re-hash - even though that seems to have been on purpose.

Comstock = Andrew Ryan with a beard.

The combat certainly felt kind of wonky and never really as much fun as the others - especially Bioshock 2. for the entire game I ignored most of the weapons since the felt kind of awkward. And I only really used the shock ability as they all seems to do little more than buy me a few seconds to reload. 

The most interesting part for me was Rosalind Lutece, things picked up whenever she and Robert appeared...They argue like siblings even though they aren't.

I think I missed a few audio logs so I'll have to go back through at some point.

 

 

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Here's my super short spoiler-free review-

BioShock Infinite is like winning $10 million in the lottery, and then realizing you only get $5 million after taxes. 

Or, more directly, it is still one of the best games to come out in years, but only half as good as it looked in the trailers. 

Things worth discussing- The Luteces, The Racism, The Difficulty, The Angel Columbia, The Which-BioShock-is-the-best? (Columbia vs Rapture, Plasmids vs Vigors, Gun inventory, health packs, ), The Ending Generally, How-Would-This-Look-In-Oculus-Rift?, The Thing After The Ending, What Happened to the Game in the Trailers?, Does the Xbox version actually look worse than the Xbox version of BioShock 1???, Why the cutscene when you die doesn't make any sense, or maybe it does, Will the Circle be Unbroken?, Elizabeth- revolutionary AI or more of the same, etc.

 

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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oh, you can haz spoilers here. Now that i've finished I have had some time to think about things.

Looking back, the early videos did seem more 'rapture-esque' which is probably why things were re-tooled - but they also seemed more ambitious. Elizabeth seemed much more powerful and useful in battle - attacking enemies with 'vigor-like' abilities..

The Lutece [plural or singular? ;)] - intriguing. I always took notice when they were around.

I loved the opening atmosphere with random people milling about. Once the bullets began to fly the environments kinda felt lifeless, there were the odd civilians here and there but it wasn't really the same.

That made me crave encounters with the 'twins'.

The difficulty - I'd say it was more tedious than challenging. A lot of firefights just felt bland, I was just focused on clearing an area to advance the story rather than enjoying what was going on. 

Columbia vs Rapture? - I gotta go with rapture. In the early games it was like you were in a completely different place - the sane man in an insane world. In Columbia, you are just stuck in a city with a handful of assholes, yourself being one of them. 

Comstock felt like too much of a re-hash of Ryan to me, perhaps with a more original storyline i'd have enjoyed the 'world' more.

It did seem early on like issues like racism would play a large role but once the shit hit the fan it was basically you vs everyone in the city and little else.

The weapons is where the game really disapointed me. 

Two gun limit - I just don't understand this. Why now? It was kinda frustrating, in the end i just upgraded a few weapons and stuck with those. 

no visual aspect to upgrades - This was something I really enjoyed back in rapture. 

different guns that look identical - There's really no excuse for this. It was distracting to pick something up thinking it was something else [in the heat of battle]. This was something that also had me sticking with a few weapons. I played almost the whole campaign with a sniper rifle and a machine gun.

Lack of Inventory - Having Liz around to toss me more Salt of Ammo was handy but i would much prefer an inventory where i can stock up and manage that stuff on my own.

No alternate ammo types - Could have made things a lot more interesting. It could even allow for having less 'samey' guns..

No real standout weapons - In the end they were all pretty bland and basic.

 

Oculus Rift + Skyhook? - I wonder if that'd cause motion sickness?

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I found the Lutecia (plural?) to be the highlight of the game as well.  At first I thought they were just local colour... but I still really enjoyed their interludes.  I thought the coin flip at the start was goofy, and perhaps a reference to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, but as with the rest of the Lutecox (plural?) interactions, it all made sense (well... sorta) once the later game reveals were had.  The game definitely turned a corner when I found a vox-o that included some of Rosalind's past.  I was much more excited and interested in her mystery than I had been in much up til then.

I've read theories that Rosalind is from Comstock's reality (I think this one is pretty much obvious) and that Robert is from Booker's.  I don't know that there's enough evidence to determine if that's true, or that it really matters... but I guess I figured that Robert was more accomplished in his own reality before jumping into Rosalind's.  We don't know that much about Booker's world outside his office, but I think we can assume that there is no Columbia... so I'm not sure what Robert would be working on.  I guess it could be anything...

More of a stretch- I read that some people decided that Robert (and Booker) must also be from the reality where Rapture is built.  Which makes even less sense to me, but whatever.  Further, people have speculated that Booker is a blood relative to Ryan, but if you remember Ryan's background, that makes very little sense.  But still, Booker can use the Bathysphere, which was locked down to Ryan's genetics... so perhaps that's a clue that they're related... or maybe interdimensional traveler's get a pass.  Someone else argued that just like Robert and Rosalind are the same person, minus the cause-and-effect that determined gender... that perhaps Booker/Jack/Comstock/Ryan are the same person, minus the cause-and-effect that caused their exact birthdays.

Which brings me, Johnny, to one of your points, that Comstock and Ryan were too similar.  Which really strikes me as odd.  I guess the method is similar, but the madness is so not. 

I love BioShock (in all of its manifestations (so far)) and yet perhaps I shouldn't.  Because I guess I identify more closely with the villains, if villains they truly be.  I am not an Objectivist, but I like more of Objectivism than I don't.  I have my few nits to pick with Objectivism, but I don't think it's flawed from the ground up.  The way I see Ryan and Rapture is not that it was a bad idea doomed to failure, but that it was not quite a complete idea and that Ryan's succumbed to the pressures of leadership that turned him into the very tyrant he sought to escape from the surface.  But it, apparently, worked for some amount of time, so it can't be completely broken.  Had Adam not been discovered, who knows how the history of Rapture would have gone differently???  My experience, which I would like to assume is pretty universal, is that Ryan seems like a really bad dude when you first enter Rapture, but by the time you club him to death, you mostly feel for him.  And then when you find out that Atlas/Fontaine has been turning your screws, I really wished I hadn't killed Ryan.  In fact, had the game not wrested control from me, I very much doubt I would have killed him in the first place.

However bad Ryan was, I think we were supposed to think that Fontaine was worse.  Ryan's motivations were pure, even if his execution of them wasn't.  Fontaine's motivations were evil from the start- though that's the kind of selfishness that opponents of Objectivism claim it props up.

I think I posted it in this thread, but I read a whole conversation over at the Cult of Rapture forums where people referred to Rapture as a "Failed Communist Utopia".  I think they either skipped every audio log or they think anything bad can be called "communist" without it necessarily making sense.

  • Hey man, did you see that traffic on the 10 this morning?
  • Yeah man... communist.

 

Back to the subject- I similarly identify with Comstock and the people of Columbia more than I don't.

  • I am deeply religious.
  • I believe the Founding Fathers of the US to be inspired men who did God's work in setting up my country.
  • I believe that making myself and my country the best it can be is a good thing, as long as neither are done at the expense of anyone else.  I believe it's possible to do this and not at the expense of anyone else.
  • Though I am a patriot, I fear for the direction this country is taking and would sadly leave it behind for one more in line with my ideals if it existed.
  • I believe in secure borders.
  • I have a daughter that can control space/time rifts and takes me to realities with better Star Wars movies.
  • I like old timey renditions of modern pop hits.  Apparently... this is something I just learned about myself.

 

All of that said, I never quite found Comstock sympathetic the way I did Ryan.  Which makes me wonder if that sympathy I found for Ryan was unintended and something Irrational sought to fix for their next despot. 

However, I do seem to be on the politically opposed to many who played the game, because I have read several people say how much they liked/identified with the Vox generally and Fitzroy specifically.  I thought she was exactly like Fontaine- a rat in sheep's clothing that only fools the naive.  When the naive help her obtain her objectives, her true purposes are revealed and some of the naive are filled with regret... the rest still have no clue what happened.

I think it's possible that the moral here is "be careful what you wish for" and that the revolutionaries are usually worse than the status-quo.  But I have seen that people don't take it that way.  Several people think that Fitzroy was pure and honest until you go into the reality where she is not.

This would be a natural segue to talk about my perspective on the racism as presented in the game... but that's going to have to be a topic for another day.

Sooo... that's enough for now.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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So far, I liked the part where the plane crashed in the ocean and you get to swim amongst the wreckage.

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https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/525397_548304538553144_932749847_n.png

Bioshock Infinite is the only one in the series that has actually grabbed my attention so far. I really want it but I need to wait until I'm out of school... have enough trouble focusing as it is, haha.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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bkev said:

<snip pic>

Bioshock Infinite is the only one in the series that has actually grabbed my attention so far. I really want it but I need to wait until I'm out of school... have enough trouble focusing as it is, haha.

Why do you think that is?  Do you think the game itself is more appealing or do you think it's just that you're older?  I know they marketed this in a slightly more "Dude-bro" way, so it probably caught a sliver of new audience... but based on what I know about you (which isn't much) I didn't figure you for the dude-bro type.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Appreciate the edit, xhonzi. Good catch by you.

In response to your question, I'm not sure. With Bioshock, I've up until now been able to write it off as just another shooter (you can chew me out if you want, but - regardless of whatever tricks Bioshock pulls - it's tough to convince me otherwise. They're just not my kind of game normally.) However, partly because they were getting criticized for the dudebro marketing, it was hard to ignore. I kept seeing article after article after article about Bioshock.

So I looked at the trailers. I watched a few spoiler-free reviews. And something about that world captured me. The other two didn't do that. Maybe it's the graphical style's bright colors. Maybe it's the fact that I actually bothered to learn more about it this time. Maybe it's because my actual gamer friends just won't shut up about how great it is. Maybe the word maybe shouldn't have started all of those sentences.

All I know is I can't wait to pick it up. I just have to save some cash... and it might be smart to wait until the end of the semester.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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It's definitely the world that is the most captivating part.  For me, anyways...

I really liked Columbia, but at this point in time didn't find it nearly as enchanting as Rapture.

 

Also- here's this for people a little disappointed in the BioShock Infinite that they played (vs the one in the demos): http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2013/04/05/the-bioshock-infinite-you-didnt-play-7-ideas-that-never-made-it/

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Wow... I just spent some time at the 2k forums.  People over there are viciously savaging the game.  And not in a good. way.

http://forums.2kgames.com/forumdisplay.php?116-BioShock-Infinite-General-Game-Discussion

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Kind of late to the party, but I beat it! And I really, really liked it! I have to agree the combat was bland in comparison to the last two Bioshocks, and even compared to System Shock 2 perhaps. I really missed the Big Daddy fights, those were one of my favorite aspects of the first two games. This one felt very lacking in the big battle department, there were only, what, two boss fights? This game relied more on throwing hoards at you. Instead of the combat being the main reason for playing the game, I felt like it was more of an obstacle I had to work through to continue exploring and learning more of the story.

Vigors seemed much less potent and fun than plasmids, I used to have a ton of fun killing splicers with plasmids, in this one it seemed you could only do very little damage with the vigors, even when they were fully upgraded. While this game gave us more guns, it only let us carry two at once, and the guns were bland enough that there was very little incentive to bother even messing with most of them. 

There was also a lot less extra stuff to do in this one. No hunting down every last Little Sister in an area before leaving, or taking pictures to do research, or hacking mini games. I'm not sure that is so bad though, it makes this one more of its own game, but those things weren't really replaced with anything else. Made the experience feel like a stripped down and simplified version of what I am used to getting from Bioshock. 

As for the story line, I have zero complaints. I think I had low expectations for this game, the departure from Rapture and the silliness of a floating city just didn't have me enthused. I was really looking forward to playing it, but I was kind of imagining a fun game that would ultimately be a cheap attempt at rehashing the first game in a different way. And it kind of was, but by the end, I found myself very invested in the mysteries of this new city and where the story would go. I am really pleased with the end result. I almost peed myself with elation when I suddenly and unexpectedly found myself standing in Rapture again. I liked how they tied the games together, I had no clue that was going to happen. I liked the Elizabeth/Anna reveal, but I am still not sure how I feel about the Booker/Comstock thing. I think I kind of like it, but I am not sure if I like how it ended. I really wanted to see Elizabeth make it to Paris, though perhaps that would have been sappy.

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Irrational Games (makers of BS Infinite) received a bit of a backlash from fans concerning the Bioshock Infinite Season Pass. In the box of every copy of the game came an advertisement inviting you to spend an extra $20 dollars on the season pass, which would eventually give you three downloadable content packs as they were released with no promise of when that content would be available.

Seems a lot of people excitedly bought this along with the game back in March, then got frustrated when no news of any DLC or release dates was forthcoming from Irrational all these months after the excitement of the game wore off.

In response to the backlash they promised to make an announcement at the end of July, detailing the content along with release dates.

Well, today was the day. And the first DLC was released today along with the announcement. Clash in the Clouds. Just a crappy arena game mode everybody hoped would be the sort of thing Irrational wouldn't bother with. Bleh. Remember when this sort of thing was included on games to give them a sort of added value after you beat them? Now apparently it is the sort of thing you're expected to pay an extra $5 bucks for. Super lame. It has some bonuses like new audio diaries, and some sort of museum. Still, big disappointment this is one of the three, and the only one we are likely to be seeing anytime soon.

 

However, the other two DLC are both new story content. Burial at Sea. It'll come in two parts, both a whopping $15 bucks a piece, together adding up to half the price of the original game. Suddenly that $20 season pass sounds worthwhile.

Burial at Sea parts 1 and 2 will take us back to Rapture in a detective noir style story, featuring an alternative Booker and Elizabeth living in Rapture just before the fall of the city. In part 1 you play as Booker, and in part 2 you play as Elizabeth. It actually sounds pretty cool.

Part of me is annoyed that they ditched on expanding Columbia's story any further, in favor of returning yet again to Rapture. Another part of me is excited to be going back to my favorite fictional city and getting to see it before the war. All around I am not sure how to feel about the main characters being Booker and Elizabeth again. I know they can explain it via their multiple time lines, but it still seems silly. Booker and Elizabeth are suppose to be from the early 1900's, while Rapture is 1950's. How would different decisions they made and branching realities result in their being born a generation later?

I always hoped for a DLC like this, but I always kind of imagined it as its own little spin off, disconnected from the main story. Since Bioshock Infinite tied Columbia to Rapture at the end, I'm sure they are going to try to explain this in more depth, and they'll have to explain the presents of Booker and Elizabeth in the 1950's underwater city. I feel like what was once a really cool story is starting to get pretty convoluted. 

Before it was sci-fi in that you could never really have a city under the sea, and that it had futuristic technology. Now it is this whole complicated multi-demensional thing, complex to the point that it is full of holes and isn't very convincing. I'm starting to really miss the simplicity of the story prior to Infinite, and the complex messages it managed to deliver through that simple, yet very rich, story.

:(

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That post was the Xhonzi signal...

Where could he be?!?

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You rang?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Time

You wants the hose again?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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That's all we get???

*Sad face*

 

:(

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In other news... I'm such a sucker for Bioshock crap that I pre-ordered the plush Songbird from the Irrational Games store. I have three Big Daddy figures (Bouncer, Rosie, Sigma... wish they'd made a Boxer...), a Big Sister, and two Little Sisters, but I don't really have an interest in any of the figures from Bioshock Infinite (unless they make an earlier in the game long haired Elizabeth figure). But that Songbird plush being an in universe toy you see lying around all over the place in the game is kind of hard to resist. 

$55, which is crazy! But my Big Daddy doll replica is already sold out and selling for well over $100 on amazon (so are the Bouncer figures, makes me wish I'd purchased several of them back when they were $18).

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Well, I got my Songbird plush today.

All the photos on the Irrational website showed that it was black with bright orange thread stitching. Really inaccurate considering the Songbird toys in the game appear to be brown leather with leather stitching.

The product description on the Irrational Games page claims the replica is chocolate brown faux-leather with faux-leather stitching. Awesome. The pitch black one in the photos must be a prototype, right?

Nope. The real thing is black as tar with bright orange thread stitching. Definitely not chocolate brown by any stretch, definitely not faux-leather stitching, and definitely not worth $55 consider the inaccurate appearance. 

Would be totally fantastic looking if the color was right.

:(

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hmm, I don't buy it. But I did realise something else while watching the clip...Sander Cohen was played by James Urbaniak. How did I not notice this before? Bioshock just became even more awesome..

 

 

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CP3S said:

The best time to read Atlas Shrugged is pretty much never. You're not going to get more out of the game by having read Atlas Shrugged or any of Ayn Rand's other books first. Yeah, it is a dystopian using a failed objectivist society as the backdrop, which is completely awesome, but as long as you have some grasp on the concepts of objectivism you're not going to miss out on that angle of the story.

Not to dis on Atlas Shrugged, it is just kind of a long tedious read, and it really isn't that great.

To offer a counter point- I really liked Atlas Shrugged. C3PX, I would think, is the target audience, so I'm surprised he didn't care for it...  It is long and it takes a while to get going... but I think it makes a pretty compelling argument.  And so much of what was ridiculed as "preposterous" in the book seems to be coming true around us.  Especially the past several years.

I think it makes a better case for Objectivism than Fountainhead

I think familiarity with Ayn Rand will enhance one's enjoyment of Bioshock 1 & 2.  When I played BS1, it had been over 10 years since I had first/last read Atlas Shrugged.  Playing the game convinced me to give it another read, which I'm glad I did.  As an adult, I found I enjoyed it much more than I did when I was 13 or so.

In summary, you can do it either way.  I think playing the game first is a fine approach.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!