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Besides "The films need to be the way I want them," has Lucas stated anything as to why the Blu-rays became the travesty that they are? — Page 2

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imperialscum said:

TV's Frink said:

You guys can live with the Greedo change?  Go sell that crazy somewhere else.

Has anyone died from it yet?

 I died inside. Does that count?

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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The Blu-ray changes were definitely for the 3D versions, at least the visual changes. Save for the fixes (of things they messed up in 97), most of them add some kind of depth or perspective that wasn't there before.

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imperialscum said:

GlastoEls said:


But it's still the GOUT for me. The straw was the loss of Sebastian Shaw in Jedi.

Ghost scene change came in 2004. In 1997 Sebastian Shaw is still the ghost.

 That's my point. 2004 was the tipping point for me.

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TV's Frink said:

You guys can live with the Greedo change?  Go sell that crazy somewhere else.

 We're all the on same train, brother, just sitting in different carriages!

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TV's Frink said:

You guys can live with the Greedo change?  Go sell that crazy somewhere else.

I can live with it the same way I've had to live with sciatica -- uncomfortably, and sometimes with excruciatingly debilitating pain.

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 (Edited)

imperialscum said:

First of all, mind that this is my opinion. Unlike many of you around here, my favourite versions are 1997 SE. The important difference between 1997 SE and the following two releases is in the nature of the alterations.

Majority of the changes in 1997 were related to upgrading the SFX and audio (yes I pretty much love every one of them) and a few changed/additions to some story-related stuff (i.e. Greedo, which I don't like but can live with it, and new celebration song with shots of other planets, which I love - I can't stand YubNub crap).

Well, I respect your opinion but it seems to me you're only seeing the reasoning behind the changes being different because you don't like the prequels and because the '97 Special Edtions happens to be your favorite versions. The nature of the alterations besides the need for restoration in '97 are really no different.

In '97 you had "ESB & ROTJ-parasites" and Shadow of the Empire-products in the first film, likewise ESB received some "ROTJ-parasites" as well. It's just Lucas' hamfisted and embarrassing attempt to connect all the films with each other. In fact, this goes all the way back to his retitling of the first film in 1981.

imperialscum said:

On the other hand, in 2004 and 2011 most of the changes were basically PT related crap inserted into OT. Some of these include: Hayden in ghost scene, "NOOOOO", Boba Fett voice change, Emperor having prequel style make-up in ESB, JarJar screaming "wessa free!" in one of the celebration scenes, Dug in Jabba's palace, etc.

Yeah, but is there really any difference between inserting Vader's "NOOOOO" from the prequels in ROTJ and inserting the Emperor's scream from ROTJ in ESB? To think that he's making these changes just for toying with a whiny fraction of the fanbase who still keeps buying his stuff anyway is just absurd to me. In Lucasland it all makes sense, after all he put it in the prequels first for a reason.

And I guess a few are probably business decisions, you have to remember that he's no artist, he hasn't been a true director since the first SW-film. The guy who made ROTJ, the SE and "directed" the prequels was a studio mogul. His MO has been "good enough" ever since. If he wanted to have new movie related toy sales even if it hurts the film, he insert Boba and Jabba in ANH ("Cool, I only have the Jedi one!"), the shuttle from ROTJ in ESB ("Cool, I only own the one from ROTJ!") except kids doesn't perhaps use the word "cool" these days. ;) I don't know, was/is there any Anakin (Hayden) ghost figure in the stores?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

It's just Lucas' hamfisted and embarrassing attempt to connect all the films with each other. In fact, this goes all the way back to his retitling of the first film in 1981.

I actually never gave the alterations enough thought to realize this, but at least for many of the major changes, it's true.  However, I think that if you do accept the idea of altering movies to tie them in better with one another, you can still reject the idea of altering movies to tie them in better with crappy other movies.  So that's where the "97 is best" opinion can arise.

Although frankly I do have to agree with Frink.  If you're already on board with the film alteration train for the first fifty miles, I honestly can't see how you can very well complain about another inch and a half.

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msycamore said:

Well, I respect your opinion but it seems to me you're only seeing the reasoning behind the changes being different because you don't like the prequels and because the '97 Special Edtions happens to be your favorite versions.

 Well of course. I did not claim anything beyond that.

真実

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CatBus said:

However, I think that if you do accept the idea of altering movies to tie them in better with one another, you can still reject the idea of altering movies to tie them in better with crappy other movies.  So that's where the "97 is best" opinion can arise.

Definitely, but I suspect that there are no crappy other movies in Lucasland.

CatBus said:

Although frankly I do have to agree with Frink. If you're already on board with the film alteration train for the first fifty miles, I honestly can't see how you can very well complain about another inch and a half.

Frinkly I do have to agree with Frank as well.  Seriously though, I think it may be that the bastardized versions were what some were first introduced to, so that is Star Wars to them. They didn't meet the natural good looking girl, they only met her when she had already gotten breast implants and silicone lips.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

CatBus said:

Although frankly I do have to agree with Frink. If you're already on board with the film alteration train for the first fifty miles, I honestly can't see how you can very well complain about another inch and a half.

Frinkly I do have to agree with Frank as well.  Seriously though, I think it may be that the bastardized versions were what some were first introduced to, so that is Star Wars to them. They didn't meet the natural good looking girl, they only met her when she had already gotten breast implants and silicone lips.

Well some of you just don't understand the concept of common sense. I judge for myself what suits me the best. Just because some of you are unable of any analogous view when it come to Star Wars, it doesn't mean the rest of us should follow your discrete way of thinking. I get it, you don't like the re-releases. But don't go telling the rest of us that all changes are the same and equally bad. Everyone will make their own judgement, thank you.

真実

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imperialscum said:

I judge for myself what suits me the best. Just because some of you are unable of any analogous view when it come to Star Wars, it doesn't mean the rest of us should follow your discrete way of thinking.

 Well of course. I did not claim anything beyond that.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Same here. There's a big difference between not understanding how anyone can come to a certain conclusion, and saying nobody's allowed to come to that conclusion, or even that this conclusion is wrong.

It actually shares some shocking similarities to a statement made by a relative one year around Christmas. They live in one of those neighborhoods where the neighbors all try to outdo one another decoration-wise. Every year, the house across the street had miles of blinking, gaudy lights, a herd of animatronic deer, an inflatable Santa, and Christmas music playing on outdoor speakers. But this year, they also had, for some reason, lawn flamingos. My relative said "I can't believe they have flamingos. How tacky!" Now, I'm not saying they aren't entitled to their opinion, and that it all isn't subjective anyway, and that I didn't ultimately agree with them that the lawn flamingos were in fact tacky, but nevertheless, I doubt I'll ever be able to understand why those flamingos, of all things, were the tipping point. It is pretty much the same feeling I have for all the rage over Vader's "Nooo!"

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Nope, sorry, the Greedo change was beyond terrible and anyone who disagrees should just spend their time at nooriginalgreedo.com rather than come here anymore.

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TV's Frink said:

Nope, sorry, the Greedo change was beyond terrible and anyone who disagrees should just spend their time at nooriginalgreedo.com rather than come here anymore.

I don't like Greedo change. It is just that I am able to put up with it, unlike PT related changes from 2004 and 2011.

真実

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Ah, the old Greedo scene débat! I don't like the Greedo change either, but:

- I did not even notice the change the first time I saw the SE in theater. I guess I was blinking the eyes or thinking about something else.

- Saying that it changes the whole character of Han Solo is just not true. It just changes  half a second of screentime and Han Solo have more than enough other scenes to define his character. Don't get me wrong: it looks stupid and it changes a bit the feeling of "dangerousness" of Han Solo but his character is still the same.

- I understand fans who can be pissed by this change (I am), but I don't understand how it became THE main focus of the hate when you have that idious new Jabba scene, the Jedi Rock number, etc... I guess "who shot first?" was just a nice catch phrase that focused all the hate in one single point.

- I think we all agree that the problem is not "who shoot first", the problem is that we don't have the choice of the version.

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It doesn't change him much, but it's tonally inconsistent with a mercenary kind of guy who's only in it for the money.

Even the hero in an old western wouldn't let the bad guy get off a shot like that. It would have been laughed at.

Yes, there are more egregious changes, but this one symbolizes how much George changed in twenty years. And the explanation that he couldn't get the shot he wanted in 1976 doesn't hold water. There were no technological limitations hindering him.

We're damned lucky he couldn't/didn't mess with the swordsman scene in Raiders. After all, we can't have the hero shoot a guy from twenty feet away. That's not cricket!

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I don't like how it undermines our intelligence. Lucas says he always intended for that to be the case, we just couldn't tell because of the poor editing. So no one in 20 years was able to figure out the mystery of who shot first (because we didn't know there WAS a mystery). I doubt he didn't have the technology to film and edit Greedo shooting first in 1976 if he had wanted it that way. It represents "Revisionism" to me in the most physical way. I think that's why I'm still upset about it.

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Did he really say it was poorly edited? That would be a considerable slam against the editing team that saved his butt, and won the Oscar. Not to mention he was once married to one of them.

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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/george-lucas-star-wars-interview-288523

Lucas said:

The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.

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That explanation would only make sense if Greedo shot first in the finalised script.  But, of course he didn't.

Han shot Greedo in self-defense.  There's nothing 'cold-blooded' about it.

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Lucas said:

The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.

 Gary Kurtz said at the Elstree Empire Day that Han's actions were pre emptied. He knew Greedo was going to kill him so Han shot him first. That's that !

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The change only indicates Han being an idiot for letting Greedo shot.

真実

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I don't know why Lucas didn't just reshoot the shot so that Han shoots second.

All He would have had to do was have a replica of the cantina set built, have a few Han/Greedo costumes made/taken out of storage, and then hired a guy who could have reasonably stood in for a young Harrison Ford to play Han (he could have always cut-and-pasted Ford's head onto the guy's body later, anyway). And then, during the reshoot, the guy could have made a realistic dodge away from Greedo's blasterfire, and then shot the scaly green bastard from under/over the table in self-defense.

I honestly don't know why Lucas didn't just do it -- and many of the other changes -- this way. It would have cost a couple thousand bucks or so to do (I can't see it costing much more than digitally twisting Han's body around in the original footage) and it would have look far better and seamless.

Lucas seems to like half-assing everything he does, though, even when he had the millions to do better.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

I don't know why Lucas didn't just reshoot the shot so that Han shoots second.

All He would have had to do was have a replica of the cantina set built, have a few Han/Greedo costumes made/taken out of storage, and then hired a guy who could have reasonably stood in for a young Harrison Ford to play Han (he could have always cut-and-pasted Ford's head onto the guy's body later, anyway). And then, during the reshoot, the guy could have made a realistic dodge away from Greedo's blasterfire, and then shot the scaly green bastard from under/over the table in self-defense.

I honestly don't know why Lucas didn't just do it -- and many of the other changes -- this way. It would have cost a couple thousand bucks or so to do (I can't see it costing much more than digitally twisting Han's body around in the original footage) and it would have look far better and seamless.

Lucas seems to like half-assing everything he does, though, even when he had the millions to do better.

 That's a good question! Time and money were spent recreating bits of Jabba's palace for new shots. Not to mention the Wampa's cave.

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