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Batman Forever - Dark Knight Edition

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Will post more soon. This is a "Remix" of Batman Forever using the deleted footage avalible. The goal was to help it flow better with Burtons first two films and be the end of a trilogy. The edit was screened for a few lucky comic fans last week in L.A. . 10 two disc dvds were given out, it is up to those fans to share the work. The editor does not want to be named.

I have seen this edit and will post a review soon. I didn't get a copy of the dvd though. I am trying to get one!
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Almost forgot, I was also sent this screencap of one of the " Remixed " Scenes. The new opening of the film, after the credits.
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Well, I really hope you can get a hold of this DVD set. The cover art and screenshot have me intrigued. There has been talk of a Batman Forever edit on these boards before and I'm sure many would love to see this.

Might be a bit hard tracking down a copy unless you know one of those 10 who got a set, though.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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Full Specs

Disc One
Batman Forever - Dark Knight Edition
-Animorphic widescreen transfer
-2hrs 5 Mins
( The film has had scenes added, scenes clipped/deleted or reworked, with a new musical score added. Most the music is taken from the cd " The batman trilogy ".
Which provides alternate versions of the Elfman themes. Some, but very little original Batman forever music is intact )
-Isolated Score
- optional "Dune tv edit-eqse" 5 min prolog to take the story and conect it from Batman/Batman Returns to Batman Forever. This uses film footage aswell as images from the movie adaptation comic books. Interesting concept. Goes into detail on the history of Batman/Two-Face. Film footage from the client is used for Tommy Lee Jones as Harvey Dent.

Disc Two
- Dark Knight edition Teaser and Trailer
- 1995 HBO Making of 15mins
- 1995 E! Red Carpet premiere coverage
- 1995 E! Behind the scenes
- Photo gallery ( includes complete 1995 fleer cards )
- Seal " kiss from a rose " music video
- U2 " hold me thrill me kiss me kill me" music video


I will post a full review soon. Hopefully I will be able to get some more screencaps.

This edit was done with an avid system. It is very professinal looking!



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Can you give us an initial impression of how good it was? Did it suck? Was it good? I only ask because the original version of the movie sucked some serious balls...

And if you do get a hold of this (is this a reasonable possibility?), will it be hitting a torrent site near us?
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I will say that this edit is the best version of Batman Forever we are ever gonna see, aside from someone getting all the raw footage and starting from scratch.
Even if the ever rumored Directors cut appears, it would only be able to one up this edit by adding more deleted footage. The addition of the editors original creation for bruce's nightmare seq is great. When Bruce is knocked out, we go on a nightmare ride in bruces mind. Using footage from the previous films.

I wouldn't know where to begin with putting this edit online. If I do get a copy however, I will make it avalible to someone who could upload it.

The film opens with the WB logo from 1989, the opening is similer to that of Batman Returns. From the logo we fade into the shot of Arkham, I think this was a shot taken from Batman and Robin. It is a panning shot that moves up into Arkham. It has had it's color tweeked though, to have a more bluish tint. Infact the whole film has a bluer tint to it. It was the editors way of toning down the neon. The two-face escape scene is edited very well, music and sound effects work great. After we realize two face has escaped, we cut back outside of arkham as the frame fills with heavy blue smoke/clouds for the title seq. Which plays over elfmans music.

After the credits the clouds disperse to show the Gotham city screencap I posted above.

This edit follows the original scripts timeline.

will add more later...

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need...to....get...this!!!!!

Join the dark side… and get a free cookie!

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It would awesome to get a look of this. Someone, somewhere, must have it!
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Hey,

This edit sounds like something we ALL need to see!

I found a great page that has info about the existing Batman Forever deleted scenes and how the film was (and was not) assembled.

CLICKY

The report has nothing to do with this new B.F. fan edit, or info on how to get it. it's just great info.

There is a B.F. 2 DVD set that has a section of deleted footage, but I am not sure if it's the source of all the deleted and extended scenes used in this "Dark Knight" edit. I would love to know where all that footage can be found.


FF

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Sounds interesting... but there is still the most important question: does this edit remove Kilmer?
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I have my own plans for a BF re-edit, which I wanted to do but no time, no time. I've told to ADigitalMan about it, and he seemed overly optimistic about it.

However, I do want to have a look at this re-edit....

Wanna share my plans for a BF re-edit, anyway?
My life is really... Complex!

Batman Returns
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Wow, I didn't know my 2005 artical was so popular ;o)

BTW everyone DrakeRetro here also known as ScissorPuppy on the BOF boards. I am going to repost the artical here for one reason. Jett forgot to add the rest of the pics to the artical. This comes in handy while reading. Here you go. Note this was written before the 2005 dvds were released. At the time is was highly rumored that Batman Forever was going to get the long awaited extended cut. What we got were about half of the deleted material is shoddy form.

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10 years ago, we were experiencing a similar sense of anticipation as we are now. Although the net is a much stronger force of information now than it was then, we still craved every last bit of information on Batman, if a bit harder to come by. I'm not going to turn this into a reminiscing piece, as other's have already done that, and aside from personal experiences, I don't think I can add to it. Jett and others have captured what it was like to be an eager Batfan looking for information in early 1995. This article is about the hidden gem we hopefully will soon see.

This is not about the deleted scenes in general. This is about what to expect from a possible Joel Schumacher (or someone else) extended cut. Not all the ideas expressed in this article will be facts, because quite frankly we won't know the facts until that long awaited DVD is in our hands. What will be discussed are the deleted scenes, time-line, and what to expect based on various sources. We will also try to weed out the false stories and unlikely hopes.

Basically we are going to cover the definite, the maybe, and the not going to happen. We are not going to discuss slight changes from the script, A script is a path, it doesn't dictate how you choose to go down it. Minor dialog changes and scenes playing out differently are just that, different. Why go into detail when you guys can just read the script. I'm only following the script for 2 reasons: to maintain an idea of what the original time line is, and to get a glimpse at what to expect from the known deleted scenes. This is not a script to screen comparison, it's a look at what to expect from the extended cut. When possible pictures will be added to help the topic at hand. I will also go into a few areas with stories I've heard from folks in the industry, mainly about some of Jim Carry's improv on certain scenes.

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First off I'd like to address some of the rumors surrounding the unseen footage in Batman Forever. While doing some research online, I've found that there are a lot of people out there who seem to have been misled, or let their minds run wild with ideas on what to expect from this new version of the film.

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1. MAN-BAT is not in this film, There isn't some deleted sequence featuring a fight in the batcave, between Bruce Wayne and Man-bat. This originally popped up at IMDB.COM a few years ago, rumor has it that Bruce Wayne awakes after being knocked out by the Riddler and walks down to the Batcave. Only to be attacked by the Man-Bat. Bruce fights this thing in a spectacular sequence until Robin jumps on the scene and realizes that the Man-Bat is only a hologram that is being run by the Bat Computer, which was hacked into by the Riddler. UM, can you say BULLCRAP! Needless to say, the rumor was so retarded that IMDB took the "trivia" piece down. The giant bat in the film is the same bat in the extended version, his purpose is just a little more meaningful. So strike that one out, if you ever hear that again.

2. BURTON style ending to FOREVER? Yes it's true. The script did originally call for, and Schumacher did shoot an ending that would fit in tone with the last shots of the previous two films. But guess what? This is not a picture of it. It's clearly footage of the real life Batman committing suicide after watching a sneak preview of BATMAN AND ROBIN back in 1997 (JUST KIDDING).

This is a picture of 2 stuntmen dressed in Batman & Robin outfits on a small smoke-filled sound stage. This was footage filmed for the Acclaim video/arcade game commercial that was released shortly after the film. The stuntman playing Batman is wearing the panther suit. In the real finale scene (Which we will talk about later ), Batman is wearing the sonar suit. As you can see Batman jumps off the building falling directly into the camera frame. I have the commercial on VHS from a BATMAN FOREVER promo, You can clearly tell that it is not Kilmer, or anyone who resembles him enough to be a double in a close up shot.

3. BATMAN '89 sets in FOREVER? Nope, this is not a deleted scene from BF. This picture has been connected with a lot of made up scenes. The most common explanation of the picture is connected with a deleted scene of Batman driving around Gotham constantly being tricked by the Riddler's control over the city. Well something similar in form does exist in the script and was filmed but this isn't it. Why? Well anyone who has seen the film knows that Robin doesn't appear in full gear until just before the climax of the film. What's he doing there?

Another is that an "Intro" to the opening of the next film was shot, where Batman and Robin pull up to the Gotham Museum and run into battle Mr. Freeze as the film fades to black, with a BACK TO THE FUTURE style credit that says "TO BE CONTINUED." Never happened. For one, why is the destroyed Batmoblie there? Shouldn't there have been a new car or something else there? Also, why are they running out? Perhaps they ran in and saw what was to come in the next film and GOT THE F' OUT OF THERE!

The truth is something much less complicated folks. People in the U.S. should know about parks all across America called Six Flags, and also a few parks around the world called WB Movie World. Back in 1990, Six Flags opened a summer attraction stunt show to tie in with a Batman roller coaster they had opened in a few of their parks, I believe Atlanta and Los Angeles where some of the first to get them. Just about all the parks had a mini Gotham city (Based off of BATMAN '89s design) and featured this Batman Stunt Show. The show would be updated every year and have a make over every time a new Bat-film was released. I saw the show when I was 11 in the summer of 1992 in Atlanta. The Show featured The Joker, Catwoman and The Penguin.

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In 1995 the park totally revamped the show for BATMAN FOREVER, with new cars, actors, suits, plotlines and stunts. Guess what? The main set didn't change much except for some lighting, That's why in this picture, the steps they are running down are from a scaled down version of Gotham City hall from BATMAN '89. This is nothing more than a promo photo from Six Flags parks for their summer '95 attraction. By the way, after B&R came out the show became a ridiculous joke, even worse than the film. Also, I've heard this was a scene from a Mickey D's commercial too, but I don't think so. It's possible but I doubt it. I know for a FACT it's connected to the Six Flags/Movie World parks.

NOTE: Recently, a lot of the Six Flag parks have drastically changed the stunt show to resemble the comics rather than the films. A lot of the parks Gotham City streets still resemble BATMAN '89 though. Some parks have even built an indoor stunt arena.

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1. NEW DIGITAL IMAGE FROM BATMAN FOREVER DIRECTOR'S CUT? Remember that "rumor" that said Joel is going to oversee some tweaked effects work for the new cut? Well that's still a rumor and this isn't a digital image from it. Notice the zoomed in pic, What is that? Evidently someone thought that Warner Bros had given Joel enough money to create a whole new CGI Gotham and also some sort of flying car chase. There's not really a story behind the pic except someone tried to pass it off as a new image from the directors cut. (UPDATE It's a screenshot from the Warner bros. movie world ride Batman:The Ride, not to be confused with the rollarcoaster of the same name. It's a motion ride similar to the star tours ride in the states. You can only ride this in Austraila!)

2. COOL DELETED SCENES OF GOTHAM AND BATMAN? This one really gets me, seriously. Anyone who's been a Batman fan long enough to know what BATMAN FOREVER is, should know about the OnStar commercials. Basically OnStar made a few commercials featuring Batman and some villains, The Bat-Suit was from B&R but repainted to be darker and a yellow oval was added to the chest emblem. BATMAN 89's Batmobile was used and the cityscape was a combination of Schumacher's lighting (albeit drastically toned down - less neon, more bluish) and the style of the RETURNS/FORVER/B&R city. Pretty cool commercials and they fit in well with the later part of the series. I wouldn't have minded if some of these aspects spilled over into a BATMAN 5 if the studio had chosen that route. But these are shots from the onstar ads and not BATMAN FOREVER deleted scenes. I read that these pics where from deleted car chases to alternate footage of Batman on a rooftop. Not True.

Well that's it for the various rumors I've heard, I will address some false hopes later in the opinion section.

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Probably the most famous deleted sequence from BATMAN FORVER is the Two-Face jail break/"The Bat Must Die" sequence which was to open the film, Why? Because this is the one Warner Bros. did the worst job at hiding. It's featured in the comic book adaptation, the making of book, the novel, and magazines. Footage even showed up in the U2 music video and some TV spots and trailers. In fact, when I sat down to see FOREVER in the summer of 1995, I thought that the Two Face taking over the bank scene was going to be the end of the film, with the film shown through Two Face's point of view in flashbacks. I had the comic but only looked at the first few pages before showtime, as I didn't want to ruin the film. Therefore, I didn't know what the real ending was. I thought the film started out as this being Two Face's last battle with Batman and then it would flashback to the Arkham escape scene. I kept waiting, and waiting and suddenly I was 30-minutes into the film, guessing they had cut it out. Throughout the entire film, I kept wondering why would they cut out such a cool moment?

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Later on that night, I was excited and disappointed at the same time, I liked the new direction of the Batman film, and I was glad Schumacher didn't choose to emulate Burton to the tee. Like most people I left the theater that night both happy and sad. I told you I wasn't going to make this article a nostalgia piece, but as I'm writing now, I can see in some spots it may turn into that.

It was at this time - with these feelings of being torn between Schumacher's popcorn and Burton's art - that I started to realize something was wrong with the film. On the way home I decided to read the comic version of the film I had picked up just prior to the screening. I noticed that the entire front of the film was re-arranged. Scenes where out of order and misplaced, along with scenes missing all together. At 14 I was naive to think, that someone who had assembled the film at the theater made a mistake and switched a few reels, possibly leaving one out.

Later that night, E! ran a behind the scenes special on BATMAN FOREVER, I watched it and low and behold a few things I didn't remember seeing in the theater showed up. For one, the U2 video was part of the special and featured the Arkham escape footage. A few shots that overplayed during some interviews didn't seem to match up with what I had seen earlier that night.

The next day I decided to go with a friend to a different theater to see the film, hoping my assumptions where correct, hoping some jackass had screwed up my prior screening, I WAS WRONG. Something was wrong in Gotham, and it was a man with scissor's slicing up the new film.

It wasn't until a few years later after BATMAN AND ROBIN failed to please fans, that Schumacher announced he was going to release his director's cut on the new DVD format in the future. I remember reading this in "Starlog" magazine in 1998. I kept hoping for the release in 1999, and it's never happened. I really believe that WB has always intended to release the film's director's cut to tie in with the next Batman film. And since 1998, we've had rumored release dates in 1999, 2000, and 2001. When Nolan finally took over in late 2002, we now have 2005. So it seems we are finally going to get a hold of that footage!

Why was this footage cut? Time constraints. I must say given the obstacle of trimming a film, WB was either lucky or crafty with the re-arranged time-line. If you had not known anything about the films original sequence of events, you probably would have never noticed. But, there are some occurrences that show the film must have been cut very close to release date. A few are the fact when Bruce Wayne sees the Bat-Signal in the sky, while talking to Nygma at Wayne Tech, we hear sirens in the background. Why? Because this was originally supposed to take place before the Two-Face bank robbery scene. It was a missed sound edit, Why would sirens be screaming when the Commissioner is even surprised that the signal is up? Also a few moments later when Chase says "Last night at the bank, I noticed something about Two Face," this is over-dubbed. Look at her lip movement, as it's actually quite a horrible dub. The actual line was something more along the lines of "Last night at the Circus, I noticed something about Two Face". This would make sense as she actually saw Two Face at the circus, as she never laid eyes on him at the bank.

The original time-line goes something like this...

Two Face's Arkham escape.

Gotham City establishing shot (With alternate news commentary referring to the escape rather than the bank robbery).

Wayne Tech tour by Bruce Wayne, Conversation with Ngyma, Bat signal in sky, Batman's gearing up.

Two-Face bank robbery, helicopter flight/crash.

The Nygma murder of Stickly, Bruce at Wayne tech surveying the suicide scene.

Bruce visits Chase Meriden at her office, invites her to the circus.

Circus event, where Two-Face slaughters the Graysons.

Bruce taking Dick in as a ward and the garage scene.

Batman and Chase's meeting on the police headquarters rooftop.

Everything else, except for deleted scenes pretty much plays out the same in the theatrical version. As you can see, the order of events are changed quite a bit. As I said, it was either crafty editing on Schumacher/WB's part, or to quote Two-Face, it was "LUCK! Blind, Stupid, Simple, Doo-Dah, Clueless, LUCK!"

Schumacher himself has even stated that the original version of Batman Forever was over 2 hours and 40 minuets - that's a lot of footage. I also have a theory that some scenes were edited down and thus being sped up in the process. Take the Bank scene for instance - do you think it would play the same without the opening credits? I think a lot of footage was snipped from that sequence among others.

Below are the actual deleted extended scenes we know of - based off various sources and the script...

Extended sequence featuring conversation with Bruce and Alfred as he flies through the tunnel connecting WayneTech and the Batcave.

Extended moments/Dialog/Alternate takes all throughout the Bank Robbery/Helicopter scenes.

A local Gotham Talk Show featuring Chase Meriden as a guest, talking about Batman.

More footage of Nygma becoming the Riddler.

Extended scene at the casino robbery, where the Riddler fails at punching the security guard - he then beats the man down with his cane.

Extended shots of the Circus attack.

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Extended scenes of Alfred and Bruce examining the Nygma Tech "Box."

Extended conversation in the Riddler/Two Face team up scene.

Extended moments to the Batman/Dick alleyway conversation.

Extended shots of Bruce/Dick/Chase at the Ritz Gotham party. Other extended party shots/dialog as well.

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Devolpment of the NgymaTech building on Claw Island, funded by the Riddler/Two Face's robberies. This features deleted scenes of Nygma visiting the site and the box press conference.

Extended scenes involving the Riddler at claw island, talking to Two-Face, reading the paper.

Deleted scene that features a philosophical conversation between Two Face, Riddler, Sugar and Spice as they take hits from the box.

Extended Wayne Manor raid sequence, featuring Bruce and Chase fighting Two Face and his thugs.
Also I knew a guy who worked on the film in post as a P.A. to the editor. He mentioned that there was a lot of unused footage of Jim Carrey's performance in the Batcave scene, hand every take was so different. A lot of it was incredibly funny. He said that he didn't understand the final edit of the scene because all the best parts where taken out.

Extended fight scene between Two-Face and Robin on Claw Island.

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Also this one, an extended scene where the Riddler knocks Chase out by injecting her with some type of drug. He says to her " Nap time, gorgeous "

In addition to these extended/deleted scenes, there also seem to be large sequences that help the plot that were omitted.

One sequence would come directly after the casino robbery where Batman would be following a robbery signal on a tracking device in the Batmobile. He would show up at the crime scene and he would be at the wrong place - a beauty salon - in which a room full of girls laugh at him. He obviously was being tricked by the Riddler - who somehow managed to screw with the tracking device. The Riddler has been throwing Batman off the track. This would also explain why in the theatrical version Batman seems to give Riddler and Two Face moments of free reign over the city.

I think the most important sequence that has been talked about for ages is the extended resolution to the red dairy sub-plot. For all you that were hoping for something deeper in the deleted material this is it. This storyline really gives us more focus on Bruce's torment as Batman, and a much deeper meaning to the title "Forever."

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Here is a section of the script (Thanks to BOF Forum member "Batman Beyond") that details the resolution to this storyline:

(From BATMAN FOREVER, @copy Warner Bros. Pictures. No copyright infringement is intended.)

INT. BRUCE`S BEDROOM - MORNING

Bruce is in bed, head bandaged. Alfred is walking a doctor to the door.

DOCTOR: The injuries are relatively minor. The shot did cause a concussion. Watch for headaches. Memory lapses. Odd behavior. I'll check back in a few days. Alfred ushers him out, returns to Bruce's bedside.

ALFRED: How are you feeling, young man?

BRUCE: Not that young. It's been a long time since you've called me that.

ALFRED: Old habits die hard. Are you alright?

BRUCE: As well as can be expected, I guess. Give me the bad news.

ALFRED: Dick has run away. They have taken Dr. Meridian. And I'm afraid they found the cave, sir. It's been destroyed.

BRUCE looks up at ALFRED, eyes narrow, puzzled. (This is where the scene ends in the released version of the movie).

BRUCE: The cave? What cave?

INT. BATCAVE

Or what's left of it. Melted ruin and rubble. BRUCE stands with a worried ALFRED, surveying the landscape (there is a photo of this scene, with Alfred and Bruce holding torches, that was used a lot in the 1995 publicity).

BRUCE: (disbelieving) I'm Batman? I remember my life as Bruce Wayne. (looking around) But all this. It's like the life of a stranger.

ALFRED: Perhaps the fall...

BRUCE: There's one other thing. I feel..

ALFRED: What?

BRUCE:...Afraid.

ALFRED: Bruce. Son. Listen to me. You are a kind man. A strong man. But in truth you are not the most sane man.

BRUCE: ...A bat.

ALFRED: What?

BRUCE: I remember a bat. A monster. A demon. Chasing me. (child's terror) Oh my God, Alfred.
ALFRED: No demons, son. (touching his head) Your monsters are here. Until you fact that, I fear you will spend your life fleeing them.

INT. BATCAVE

BRUCE stands before a dark, rocky mouth. Through this passage, the cave as it once was, sweating granite, a shifting world of shadow. Bruce steps inside.

INT. INNER BATCAVE FAVOR BRUCE as he walks deeper into the darkness. The walls around him undulate, as if covered in water. WALLS - CLOSER. The movement isn't water at all. It's the restless shrugging of bats. Thousands of bats. Bruce presses on. Sweat beads on his face. Ahead, a diffusion of moonlight illuminates a curving rock chamber, bats here too bringing the walls to life. Bruce moves into the moonlight. Looks up.

BRUCE - POV. A narrow chute. The fall he took as a child. He kneels, there on the floor, worn by years of weather, a single book. A diary. Bruce kneels, touches the leather cover, fingers lingering for a moment on his father's embossment, before he turns yellowed pages to the last entry. Painfully, by moonlight, he reads.

BRUCE: (OVER)(dreaded confirmation) Bruce insists on seeing a movie tonight...

He pauses, gathers himself. He continues.

BRUCE (OVER): But Martha and I have our hearts set on Zorro, so Bruce's cartoon will have to wait until next week. Bruce stares at the book in disbelief. Then he looks up at the moonlight, tears streaming down his face.

BRUCE: ...Not my fault. It wasn't my fault.

Suddenly, in the darkness ahead, a dark shape moves, head rising, slits opening to reveal two blood red eyes. The giant monarch bat (see picture above) spreads its wings, huge, as it rises, suddenly airborne, rushing toward him. BRUCE - CLOSE. And terrified. He turns to run. The bat's flapping wings BEAT like drums, closing fast. Bruce holds his ground. Resolved. He turns and faces the monster, SCREECHING towards him, glistening fangs barely inches from his face. Something remarkable happens. The bat holds its position, stares into Bruce's eyes, wings spreading wide. A beat. Then Bruce raises his arms, a living mirror. The two stand facing each other, man and bat. In the moon- light on the wall, their shadows begin to blend, to merge, becoming one _SHIMMERING WHITE LIGHT!_

INT. BATCAVE

The mouth of the inner cave. A sudden SCREAMING DIN as a storm of bats explode into the cave, a shooting column of life and there, from within, steps a man.

REVERSE ANGLE

ALFRED stands at the entrance.

ALFRED: Master, Bruce?

BRUCE:...Batman, Alfred. I'm Batman.

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And for our final deleted scene, that mysterious one, that no one is really sure why it was deleted, the "Burton style" shot of Batman and Robin overlooking the city. The actual scene was shot in front of a blue screen and it's a lot different than the one we talked about earlier. I'm not to sure why Schumacher chose to re-shoot the ending, with the bobbling heads running towards the camera, backlit by the Batsignal. It defiantly doesn't serve the film well in comparison to this shot. I would prefer Joel reinserts this back into the film.

As you can probably tell, the scenes that were deleted weren't needed to tell a summer blockbuster popcorn film, but putting them back in context with the original time line, it makes the theatrical version seem like a long preview trailer for the real thing. And this is just taking into consideration what scenes we do know about. There's really no telling what else was shot, after all there are sections of the final shooting draft that differ from the finished film (As with any film really). All we have to go by is the script, trading cards, and 1995-era publicity. I think it will be safe to say some things might just surprise us when this is finally released. After all, with a rumored running time that exceeds the current version by 45 minuets, does all this deleted footage add up to that? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sticking to my theory that sequences in whole where re-edited to save time, on top of the deleted sections.

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Expectations? Well, just what are we expecting? Let's seriously put this in context.

We are not going to be seeing anything that drastically changes the film. This is not a situation where the film was taken away from the director. Those who hated the film, may enjoy it a little more. Those who liked it, may start loving it. And those of you loved it to begin with are going to gloat for days.

Personally, I feel that the film as is, has lost the test of time. It was a great piece of 1995 pop culture but doesn't seem to have anything much deeper going on. My one and only hope is that the excised footage will change my mind. It's not a bad film as is - it's entertaining. But it just doesn't stick with you. The film was a lot of flash and bang, with little substance (unless you count homoerotic undertones). We now know that the substance was cut out. Personally I also feel the editing style and score didn't help the film at all. If the film would have slowed down a bit every now and then to catch it's own breath, maybe the audience would have able to as well. I'm referring to repeated viewings over the years, as the audience of 1995 seemed to enjoy the film.

Those of you that are hoping Schumacher will use Elfman's score in this new cut. Don't hold your breath. Schumacher is happy with the score he got, and it does fit the film. I also feel it drags it down. Actions that are slightly campy in the film seem blown out of proportion due to the score. Don't believe me? Try watching a few scenes of BATMAN RETURNS with Goldenthal's score and you'll see. There is no doubt in my mind that the Batmobile driving up a wall with a less piercing score would seem badass, rather than absurd with a different score behind it. After all, I don't recall the Batmissle being one of the larger problems people had with RETURNS. Try watching that car chase in RETURNS with the car chase music from FOREVER - HORRIBLE! I'll say it again, once the film's director's cut is released, the only thing holding it back from being a great 3rd entry into the old series will be the score. It's too campy and too overblown.

But if your looking for that to be changed, if your hoping for Schumacher to give into fan demand and ultimately change a film he was happy with, don't waste your time. Schumacher was very happy with his film, He knew he had to cut it down for time constraints and I doubt that he expected Warner to release a 2hr 45 min film. Today it would be a possibility, but 10 years ago it wasn't going to happen. We are talking about a time before LORD OF THE RINGS, HARRY POTTER and even TITANIC. If a film was over 2 hrs 15 min, it was considered way too long, especially for a summer popcorn film.

The long version of the film was screened in semi-rough form to see what the small audience reaction was to certain scenes to help the edit. Also because WB wanted to try and please everyone this time around, to get back the big box office of BATMAN '89. I believe this is basically the same version we will get for an extended director's cut. The time-line will be restored, the extended deleted scenes will be put back in and some of the effects shots that may not have been finished will be tweaked using modern computer technology. If you are looking for anything more than that, please don't. Schumacher is not going to "Burtonize" the film just so the threats will stop. Besides we are getting a whole new franchise this summer and all indications point to it being a good one. It's time to finally stop complaining, sit back and enjoy these films for what they were, are and what ground they broke (That goes for all you BATMAN RETURNS haters too!).

Here's hoping that the new series will learn from past mistakes.

I would like to thank Jett giving me a forum to write this article, and all who waited for it patiently.

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Yeah, this sounds really cool! I'd love to see a good fan-edit, and the thought of it being made to be more like the third movie in a Burton trilogy is great. I haven't seen this in a while, but I caught the circus scene, and there's really good potential there. The death of the Graysons was incredibly effective, and Goldenthal's music worked well. I look forward to seeing this!
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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Its really nice to see around, ScissorPuppy.

As you can see, BF is one of those movies that could improve IMMENSLY with re-editing.

Below is a copy n' paste of my ideas for a re-edit for BF from the BOF forum. On this forum, only one ADigitalMan read the below. Enjoy.



We all know the film could've been darker, and apparently someone has taken the ultimate opportunity to make the ultimate re-edit of BF.

Anywho, I wanted to share my thoughts on a re-edit for BF that I had on my mind for a LONG time.

Lets preface:

WARNING : This, is going to be a long, LONG, exhaustive post, a personal report on how should BF be recut/re-edited to become the best of the past series' film, or, at the very least, be seen as an equal to all fans, and finally, make it a legitimate "open" conclusion to Tim Burton's Batman.

Below are my suggestions for a recut of BF, based on my what I would do, and what I would certainly Mr. Shumacher/somebody would do, in order to correct/improve the film and its inconsistent tone, and to make it fit more with the Burton Batman movies (the reason for that is to unify them as a series, since BEGINS and on are one entirely different series).

The first suggestion would be to simply resurface the original workprint version of BF, which clocked over 2 hours and 45 minutes. That version obviously would have no music, no visual effects that would enhance the neon, and would obviously not have the (Academy Award nominated, noteably) sound effects. The plus that comes from this, is to rework the film into the serious Batman film that the script (both drafts) and various publications (comic book adaptations, etc.) promised to be.

And if anything, leave out Goldenthal's score, completely. Either have a new score, or Elfman's Batman scores mixed up or B89 only, or, and the most plausible of all, no soundtrack at all.

The reason for that, is simply because the biggest factor that kind of destroyed the dark mood set by the previous films is the score itself. Not that Shumacher didn't want this score, but if this re-edit/recut means anything, if it really has any purpose, which I believe is to improve the film and establish the dark nature and serious atmosphere that I believe that really exists in there, then Goldenthal's score HAS to go. And I think many fans would prefer a silent score over Goldenthal's score, in the case this recut/re-edit happens.

And I mean no disrespect to Goldenthal's score. But like Scissor Puppy and PJ Wares have said, if one watched B89 and BR with Goldenthal's score, the mood and tone changes completely, and I must say not for the best. The illusion of a dark world with real, three dimensional characters who feel is lost, completely overwhelmed by a bombastic explosion of elephant horns that empaphize the fake nature of this world. The score really reminds this is just a comic book that doesn't need to be taken seriously, when B89 was made with that consideration, that it was a viable story that could be told seriously. So, for the intent, and purpose, of giving BF a validity and a chance to prove its a serious film, or at the very least a film that isn't a complete campy version of Batman like B&R was, either an Elfman Batman scores mix-up, a new score, or, quite simply, no score at all.

And I really believe that some fans will agree on this.

And I want to point out, since this is merely a copy-and-paste from the BOF forum (Batman On Film), that many of the below suggestions/ideas were made by fellow Bat member BatmAngelus. Thanks dude, if you're reading by any chance!

Anyway, lets proceed.

I would have the series of events in the movie happen, as mentioned, the way the did happen in the script (both drafts) and the original workprint. However, I will list my suggestions for changes/trims/additions for this recut/re-edit of BF, in the way the film is presented in its theatrical format (I will also critisize the deleted scenes found in the BF second disk DVD). That is not, however, the way I would have the events happen - that would be the original workprint version. So, that also means ALL of the original deleted scenes are inserted back in, in their original time slot.

Ready? Now, let the real game begin:

Keep the WB turning into a bat, and after the A JOEL SHUMACHER FILM credit, fade in to Arkham and have new credits play over, with the Batman theme on, and have an exploration of Arkham Asylum happen while the new credits play over. In short, a new title sequence, in which we explore the Arkham asylum from the inside. This is to tie this film to B89 and BR, where they explored the Bat-signal and the Gotham sewers respectively, to set the tone for the film. The new title sequence is combined with Dr. Burton's arrival at Two-Face's prison cell.

Cut out Alfred's "Can I persuade you to take a andwich with you sir?" and Batman's "I'll get drive through". Cut directly to Batman driving the Batmobile. HOWEVER...

Whenever the cave is present, show CGI bats around the place. It should be cool.

This a directly steal from B&R, but I really think it fits here. Its not that important, if something like this isn't in the recut/re-edit, I wouldn't complain. But, how about inserting Alfred "Do try and bring this one, back in one piece, sir!", modified though to "Do try and bring this back in one piece, sir!", to say this is the same Batmobilem, only modified externally, to reference in retrospect to BR's Police chase. I'd find it cute!

Cut out Chase's "Really? I didn't know that... You are interesting! And call me Chase". Then shorten the following line "BTW, do you have a first name, or should I just call you Bats?" to "BTW, do you have a first name?", then have her turn and see him going.

Cut out the entire "Lets start this party with a bang!" and that ball coming through - why does it come anyway? Is this Looney Tunes of something? Cut directly to the elevator coming up.

Cut out Two-Face's "Kill the bat!" and "Blast him!"

Cut out that security guard's screams, and "Its boiling acid!", "No!", "Yes!", "Don't let go!", "Hey! Hey, thats my hearing aid!" and "My shoes are melting!", but keep his original "Oh no!" and "No more!" as they show he's clearly terrified.

Cut out Nygma's "Its him!" as the way he says it implies sexual innuedo. Leave "Oh my God!" as an offscreen voice, then cut directly to "I'm a winner, I'm a winner, I AM a winner!" scene.

Cut out the "OOh!" in Nygma's "Ooh... Bruce Wayne". Small sound fix.

Cut out Stickley saying “Back to work Edward” and Nygma saying “Some people have been trying to keep us apart.” Instead, just have Bruce say “What’s on your mind?” after Edward says “You’re my idol.”

After Edward says, “Someone like you wouldn’t need it…” mute out the rest of what he says and just have Bruce glance over to the Bat Signal in the silence.

Cut out Batman's "I hadn't had that much luck with women" and Chase's "Maybe you just haven't met the right woman". Why would he tell her ANYTHING about his "social" life? Totally needless.

Cut out Nygma's blubbering "too many questions brr brrr I'll show it works!". Keep one "Too many questions", then cut to Stickley seeing Nygma.

Cut out that cartoony sound of the hair coming off Stickley's moustache so he could wake up - probably isn't in the workprint version, but I just felt to notify it.

Cut out Nygma's "Huh!!!" and "Hang on!" and him running towards Stickley. Its pointless to full he's conscious, since he's going to kill him anyway. Instead, have Stickley being terrified by the fall and Nygma simply come before him and say "Ed babe, you are fired, or should I say terminated?"

After Stickley falls cut out Edward's dialogue in his reaction ("Surf's up, big Kahunaaaaa! Ooh, a little..."). Simply have him laughing.

Cut out Edward's dialogue when he arrives at Wayne Manor except for "See you soon." Just have him put the envelope there.

Cut out "Yikes...time's up" and "That's usually my line." Never made sense to me for Chase to say that to a complete (to her) stranger. Simply have him smirk and walk up to her and say "I'd love to stay and chat" and keep everything after that.

Cut out Gossip Gerty talking to Bruce about his date. Pointless, completely!

Keep the neon in the circus. Fits it, its an event full of ludicrocy - like a real circus!

Cut out "HARVEY! I'M BATMAN!!!" I think EVERYONE will agree on this one.

On the flashback thing... I'd mix both BF with B89 (I did it, once, and worked beautifully), like this... Show the parents and Bruce walking from B89, then a flash and Thomas Wayne gunned down (B89 version), then another flash and Martha Wayne gunned down (B89 AND BF - show her falling and then the flowers and necklace falling), along with Martha's scream from B89 for additional effect. Show Napier from B89 going away. Then the rest of BF's version of the flashback (kid looks at dead parents, kneals, and the funeral).

Cut out the ENTIRE surprise Two-Face chase scene. Completely pointless, useless to the story. And Batmobile on the wall... Really!

Cut out (although I doubt they are in the workprint) the Looney Tunes images in Two Face's girlfriends. Oh, and the cartoon sounds.

Unlike most, I actually like the Grayson-Alfred laundry scene. Keep it.

For the love of God, cut out the stupid, retarted "Show me how to punch a guy!" scene. Its really pointless, and cheap laugh generator. Cut it out!

From the deleted scene where Batman is led to another place instead of the real crime scene, cut out the shop and everything in it (including "a little behind the yers [spell!], Batman?" the laugh after). Keep Batman's reaction, and show something else (anything, from another movie where they see something unusual). Pretty easy edit.

In the deleted scene where Bruce and Dick talk in Bruce's gymn, after Bruce demolishes that wood, have him turn (stock footage?) and see a new shot, which shows a big portrait of his parents and below it, a black cat. A reference to both B89 and BR. Then, we hear Joker's laugh and Bruce turns again (another stock footage?). Challenging edit, but not impossible. I think BatmAngelus mentioned a few years ago, and I remember it because its a really cool idea (whoever thought of it)!

In a deleted scene, not seen on the DVD or anywhere else except U2's music video, but probably in the workprint (as well as, well, the rest of the deleted scenes we know and don't know) when Bruce dreams of the red diary, and reads "Bruce wants to go to a movie today!", have Napier's "Tell me kid, have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?" be heard endlessly as we see images of the murder happening over, and over, and over again, until Bruce wakes up, sweating.

Keep, and I really mean, KEEP, the Fat Lady Singing on the mind-sucking sequence. Its chilling, and creepy as you watch Riddler growing smarter!

Cut out the shots of the Batman photos and newspapers. Just have Bruce find papers we don't see on her desk. Chase and Bruce's conversation afterwards is enough to show that Chase is fascinated with Batman.

OK, I hate to say this, but cut out Chase's "rage, violence, passion" and her subsequent kiss with Bruce. Have the clock bip just as she stares at him , before Bruce says "Excuse me...". Why this edit? Because Chase actually realizes Batman and Bruce are the same after she has kissed Batman on her flat. Kissing Bruce here, won't make sense later in the movie. Its an awfully good, passionate kiss, but must be cut.

Digitally remove MacDonalds - do we really need to know Gotham City has one? I mean, please.....

Cut out the whole part where Dick talks to the girls. Instead, show the Batmobile coming, the gang freezing and then the young girl running off. Then put in a shot of Dick switching gears and the Batmobile charging after them.

Cut out the part where Dick claims to be Batman. Just have Dick yell "Hey, let her go!" and the gang leader, menacingly, turning and clapping his hands to signal the other gang members to kick his @$$.

Cut out the "Kiss the girl" part and "I could definitely get into this superhero gig." Instead just have him tell her to run....

Mute that guy saying "Batman, heeeey!" He's annoying terribly, isn't he?

Cut out the Indiana Jones joke. Its pointless, and done in B89, too. Cut out Chase kissing Batman during the whole thing. Keep though "My place, midnight" thing. But not the kiss. Let the balcony on Chase's apartment be the first time.

Cut out the other superthug that threatens Batman to which Batman simply kicks him in the head.

Cut out "I've never been in love before, Alfred". The deleted scene with the newscaster, and the scene in the movie will be edited in a way that cut out that line, AND Chase in the monitor. I mean, where'd he get that one?

Now, here's a new scene that I propose: Many fans complain about how Batman would never have gone to Chase's apartment and kissed and made a smile afterwards about Bruce. I kind of agree, but this new scene could help show WHY Batman would go to her. Follow me, for a bit:

Fellow Batfans and friends have suggested that the "terrible morning" scene should be played as a series of Keaton-free scenes from the previous movies, with Kilmer's voice voiceovering. I keep that, only to create, a dream sequence. We see Bruce in bed (a freeze shot of Bruce in bed before he wakes up from the other nightmare scene, above), and then, we hear his preaching to Dick again. Its the same monologue about "killing is wrong and the pain won't stop" and all, and we see how it plays in Bruce's mind and nightmare. The footage, won't show Michael Keaton's face. We would see the cowl and Batman moving, from the behind, but not parts of his face because, it'll give away the illusion. When Bruce says "You make the kill" show the shot of Batman punching Joker in the cathedral and holding him up by his lapels. Then when Bruce says "You'll see another face, and then another, and then another" show footage of Batman taking out members of the circus gang, the bats flying around Penguin, Catwoman fighting Batman inside the building (near the Ice Princess), and then, when he says "until one terrible morning you realize, that revenge has become your whole life", show Joker falling to his death, Penguin falling down, Catwoman and Shreck electrocuting themselves, and the shot where Bruce is kneeling between his parents (from this movie, yeah). Then, re-use the shot of Bruce waking up, sweating, from the previous scene where he woke up from a nightmare.

This engineered scene, apart from being an elaborate effort to tie B89 and BR, effectively, to BF, is an indirect effort to have viewers think/believe that Bruce goes to Chase AFTER he has seen that dream. And when Chase says she's interested in Bruce, and he smiles, one thinks, he's happy that he'll rid of his nightmares, and be Batman, no more.... What do you think?

Anyway, lets continue...

Cut out Riddler's "If I was a superhero", but keep "where would I hide. No one in the films EVER, called Batman a superhero. It also seems like an elaborate joke. Oh, and cut out "Spank me!", please.

Personally, I wouldn't cut the whole Riddler scene, which I hear is even bigger in the workprint/original version of the film. But, "Joygasm" and the "Fat Lady...' part are goners.

Cut out Two-Face flipping the damn coin over and over. No matter how corny, turn the coin once and then shoot him, damn it!

When Bruce's shot and the villains have left, but before he opens his eyes again, keep the screen black, but add women voices from B89 and BR. Specifically, Vicki's "Will we try and love each other?", Selina's "psychos never scare me. At least they're commited", also "Don't pretend this is a happy ending" and Chase's "I want to get close to you, but you won't let me near. What are you protecting me from?", and then Alfred's "Master Bruce... Master Bruce..."

The scene with the giant bat, plays out as it is, only when Bruce gets out, cut to point black when Bruce says "Batman, Alfred. I'm Batman." I can't STAND his smile when he says, but the black screen should complete the scene perfectly. Preferably... I'd even replace that line, with Keaton's "I'm Batman!" But then again, maybe not...

The moment you've all been waiting for... Cut out, phaser out, whatever, the BUTT FRICKIN' SHOT! I never, ever heard of Shumacher's excuse of that one. Whats the need of showing the BUTT of all things? Either a cheap joke, or cheap sexual innuedo.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but why does Gordon light up the Bat-signal? Unless some other, serious crime is commited, there's no need for them to light up that thing. So, I really that the showing of Bat-signal, its been question marked by Riddlers, and Batman's subsequent going through, cappled with Gordon's yells, all of them, need to be cut out. They're pointless. I mean, again, why are they lightining? They surely don't know anything about Riddler/Nygma. Only Bruce and Alfred figured it out. Anyway, a definite goner.

In the UK video version, after Robin says, "The ground, it`s full of holes....y`know, holey.", a line is cut in which Batman tells him, "This place was a refuling station for submarines during the war." Insert that - undoubtably, it must be in the workprint, but if it isn't, someone bud it, or just take that line from that version. If anything, its an excuse to keep this reference to the 60's series, which some fans (including Jett, I believe) like. I like the reference too, despite the fact that I actually despise the 60's series.

Cut out Riddler's "I hope they find the little black box!" Never made ANY sense. Did it make any sense to anyone else?

Cut out "Was I OTT? I can never tell!!" as it, for me, ruins the effect of his menace, which plays well. After the deep "IIIIII....", show Batman's face, and while we see him, we hear "By the way...", then we cut back to Riddler, then the rest of the scene plays as it is.

Chase and Alfred talk. "Not in this lifetime" Alfred says, Chase looks outside the car. The camera pans away from the car, and are "traveling" through Gotham, looking at various places from the three films (ie, the Zoo place from BR, the Axis Chemicals from B89 etc.), before we settle to the very same image of Batman staring at the Bat-signal from B89. All the while the FINALE track from the B89 soundtrack plays. Next, after fade-to-black, and as the Batman Theme reprise plays, again from the B89 soundtrack, we see Batman and Robin running towards the screen (yes, the very scene from BF). I thought I should save this shot, and given the greatnes of the original Batman theme, it'd have some more grace to it. After the Batman Theme reprise plays out, Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" plays out.


OK, now I'm finished with the main film... But I didn't elaborate on Two-Face. You see, here's how I see this:

Why not make Two-Face in the film an impostor?

What do I mean? I'll explain right away. In the 60's and 70's, there a number of comics which sported a number of Two-Face's impostors. They would either be criminals just out for kicks, or seriously deranged people who choose to be fake Two-Faces as an "homage" to the real "Two-Face" (see [link=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Face#Other_Two-Faces newwindow]here about the Other Two-Faces[/link]). What I am proposing to do, is to insert in place of the news footage that explains Two-Face's origins, a whole new scene that will involve NEITHER Tommy Lee Jones and Val Kilmer, and could helmed by practically anyone.

Here's how I see it - the scene would include the newsreporter that tells of Batman's failure to capture Two-Face, and a psychotherapist that will explain of this Two-Face's origins. As the doctor goes on, he reveals that this man is not the real Two-Face (the real Two-Face, as we find out, is actually Billy Dee Williams from B89) that Gotham has met quite a few years ago, but an impostor/fake. His name is Lyle Heckendorf (a nod to Riddler's original name in the early BF drafts), and he was a mere thug who was trustworthy, but a scared personality. When his boss, Boss Moroni, was apprehended, he was scarred with acid when testifying against him in court (NO footage of the tv "flashback", as its incosistent, and then his mind slipped and thought that he was Two-Face. Apparently, the scar gave him "new life". This origin for the fake Two-Face is a combination of Harvey Apollo and Paul Sloane, two of the comic book fake Two-Faces.

The psychologist goes on state/remind us that the first, real Two-Face appeared two years ago (shortly after BR), and was Harvey Dent. Reminding us also, that Tommy Lee Jones's Lyle Heckedorf version is not the real Two-Face, and that the real one is still in Arkham and in coma, leaving Lyle rampaging in his glory.

I could script such a sort scene, if you'd like. I don't think it tempers with continuty too much, in fact it improves it. B89 stated that Harvey Dent in this series was black. This film has a Two-Face, but with nifty cut outs of "Harvey", "Dent", Harvey Two-Face" and "Harvey Dent", he doesn't need to be the same character as in B89. It just explains that the Two-Face in this film, is not the real Two-Face that we know from comics, and is also not Billy Dee's character, thus salvaging the character a great deal, and also allows to think of our own Two-Face movie to live in our heads.

Of course, the above would NEVER be something that Shumacher would do. Not in ANY stretch of the imagination. So, for the official recut/re-edit, I'd take into consideration all, and I mean, ALL of BatmAngelus's offers for the character. You can see them on his list. But the above is something I would do if I re-edited the film, and may as well do. Really, it works to retrospectively "fix" Jones' performance, as it would also rectify continuity with Billy Dee Williams and B89 - we can show an image of Billy Dee being scarred, through the magic of Adobe Photoshop. I think I have such an image, somewhere on my disk. What do you think of that?

OTHER than that.... Thats all, folks! After all this is done, CGI work needs to be done to provide the film its look, new sound effects, and either a new score, or a no score. Or, preferably, an Elfman score mix-up like BatmAngelus suggested.

Very, VERY sorry if I bored the life out of you. Its been a really long post. But I hope you have found it interesting. And I hope you approve me ideas, because I believe they are the definitive list for the changes. But then again, I could be wrong.

Anyway, I would really, really like to see what do you think of this list. Feel FREE to critisize ANY of my ideas.

Well? What do you think?
My life is really... Complex!

Batman Returns
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Nice list BB. Three things though.

Whenever the cave is present, show CGI bats around the place. It should be cool.
Why? I mean if I recall the Keaton Batman Movies didn't have them around much. Why suddenly would there be a whole bunch in there? The only one that I rememeber a significant amount of Bats in was Batman Begins. Which as, you know isn't part of this film series.

Digitally remove MacDonalds - do we really need to know Gotham City has one? I mean, please.....

There's a McDonalds in the movie? Heh, I never noticed. Though again I must ask why on this one. It's like taking the Subway papers out of Terminator 2. Why would you do it?

Cut out Two-Face's "Kill the bat!" and "Blast him!"

If your re-inserting the deleted Two-Face escape, I would keep the line "Kill the bat!" becuase, in the Escape scene it says on the wall "The Bat Must Die!" That's just me though....

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Originally posted by: twister111
Nice list BB.
Thank you.

What did you like, particularly?

Also, your thoughts on the Fake Two-Face issue? And, about the scene where Bruce sees hta nightmare and all... Well?

Originally posted by: twister111
Three things though.

Why? I mean if I recall the Keaton Batman Movies didn't have them around much. Why suddenly would there be a whole bunch in there? The only one that I rememeber a significant amount of Bats in was Batman Begins. Which as, you know isn't part of this film series.
B89 has bats in the Batcave prominently. Batman even describes them as "great survivors", and they're featured. Likewise, in BR they're heard and seen in small doses.

What I really mean is, insert some bat sounds and show some bats around the batcave - to keep with the previous films's feel of the bats being around the cave.

Originally posted by: twister111
There's a McDonalds in the movie? Heh, I never noticed. Though again I must ask why on this one. It's like taking the Subway papers out of Terminator 2. Why would you do it?

Not a really serious suggestion, but I just feel McDonalds gives the film that merchandise feel evident in the opening of the Theatrical Cut, with the "drive-through" line (which if you noticed, I also suggest to be erased). No real reason, other than personal preference.

Originally posted by: twister111
If your re-inserting the deleted Two-Face escape, I would keep the line "Kill the bat!" becuase, in the Escape scene it says on the wall "The Bat Must Die!" That's just me though....

Its not that I want to cut lines, I just feel the silliness should be toned down, and these lines have silliness all over them. Still, maybe Kill the Bat should stay.

Anyway, what did you think of the other changes I suggest?

Well?
My life is really... Complex!

Batman Returns
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Originally posted by: Batman Beyond
Originally posted by: twister111
Nice list BB.
Thank you.

What did you like, particularly?

Also, your thoughts on the Fake Two-Face issue? And, about the scene where Bruce sees hta nightmare and all... Well?
The Fake Two-Face issue is a good idea but, I'm just wondering how it could be pulled off. After seeing this thread and, posting to it I watched BF again ... mostly to see where I missed the mcdonalds that you brought up. I only saw a yellow m in the backround in the alley scene, is that it? Anyways, it would be hard to pull off seeing as there's times where "Harvey" is said so fast with another line that even if you did edit it out you might miss a little of the word and, it would come out as "What do you want Har.." It would be nice to see though if it is possible throughout the movie.

The nightmare scene is a good idea too and, I could tottally see it happening from an editors point of view.


B89 has bats in the Batcave prominently. Batman even describes them as "great survivors", and they're featured. Likewise, in BR they're heard and seen in small doses.

What I really mean is, insert some bat sounds and show some bats around the batcave - to keep with the previous films's feel of the bats being around the cave.
In small doses I agree but, whenever the cave is present is a bit much. I'm just objecting to having bunches of bat's cluttering the backround for no reason other then to look cool is all.


Not a really serious suggestion, but I just feel McDonalds gives the film that merchandise feel evident in the opening of the Theatrical Cut, with the "drive-through" line (which if you noticed, I also suggest to be erased). No real reason, other than personal preference.
Ah, yeah, I agree on the "drive through" line. I guess it's just becuase, I'm one of those people that don't mind product placement in movies so long as it's not stupid (like the credit card scene in B&R). That I don't have a problem with a fast-food place in the backround for two seconds.

Originally posted by: twister111
If your re-inserting the deleted Two-Face escape, I would keep the line "Kill the bat!" becuase, in the Escape scene it says on the wall "The Bat Must Die!" That's just me though....

Its not that I want to cut lines, I just feel the silliness should be toned down, and these lines have silliness all over them. Still, maybe Kill the Bat should stay.

Anyway, what did you think of the other changes I suggest?

Well?


I only mentioned it becuase, if you cut out both those lines Two-Face only says this "Puntual even for his own funeral. Boys!" *points to elevator and, they run and, shoot it.* Now, unless the goons have the power to read minds they just shot the elevator becuase, thier boss pointed at it. There has to be some kind of order given.

Um, the other suggestions are good too. I'll just give my two cents on a few.

Cut out "Yikes...time's up" and "That's usually my line." Never made sense to me for Chase to say that to a complete (to her) stranger. Simply have him smirk and walk up to her and say "I'd love to stay and chat" and keep everything after that.

Eh, she's a psycharitrist and, says "Time's up" to all her patients. Probably just caught her off guard that he's the one saying it. It would suprise me if she said it to someone she knew. I don't really care either way on these lines though.

Cut out Nygma's "Huh!!!" and "Hang on!" and him running towards Stickley. Its pointless to full he's conscious, since he's going to kill him anyway. Instead, have Stickley being terrified by the fall and Nygma simply come before him and say "Ed babe, you are fired, or should I say terminated?"

I always thought that he was just worried that his invention was gonna go to. I don't really care either way on these lines though.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but why does Gordon light up the Bat-signal?
The Riddler and, Two-Face have been constantly robbing places. That's why it's lit up. Since Batman hasn't been showing up at the rooftop he's probably worried that he's dead or, something and, keeps it on. Right when Gordon finally thinks Batman's dead/not fighting crime anymore he shows up. That's my interpretation anyways. It's not really essential to the plot or, anything so it could tottally be deleted and, not be missed.

Cut out Riddler's "I hope they find the little black box!" Never made ANY sense. Did it make any sense to anyone else?

It only made a little sense to me. I think black box's are used on airplanes to track data. So, if something goes wrong you can look at the data and, find out what went wrong. Mabye, he wanted the police to find the little black box in the Bat-plane for whatever reason. Again it only made a little sense to me and, I agree with you that it should be cut.

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The black box thing was just a joke on the Riddler's part.
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Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
The black box thing was just a joke on the Riddler's part.


The black box thing was a joke. As said before, a black box is a device on an airplane that tracks all sorts of data so investigators can see why the plane crashed. Whenever there is a plane crash, the news always makes big deal about investigators looking for the black box. Thats why the joke was made. It wasn't terribly funny, though.
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^Exactly. The black box joke makes perfect sense to me.

...it's just not a very funny joke.

I'm not really a fan of the Riddler telling jokes in the first place, but that's a whole different ball o' wax.
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I still want to know what happened to this. Was it put up online? Are there copies of this around? Anything?
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This is a very cool edit! I wish someone had this so that we could see it. Makes me wanna watch the original version now!

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I'm dying to see this! Batman Forver is a personal favorite as-is, but even better if we can see what could have been.