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"Back and to the left"

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This is for any conspiracy theorists' in the house. Does anyone here really believe that there were multiple shooters, etc involved in the assassination of JFK? I made this documentary (that's part I of III btw, the rest are on YouTube too) to put to rest most theories. But I was wondering if anyone here had any rebuttels and additional info and such.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Yes, I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Oswald "lone gunman" theory was pretty much discredited, by the evidence in your thread title - as well as so much more it has filled books and books of meticulous research.

I did quite a bit of my own research back in the day when the Oliver Stone film came out. The film really struck a chord with me (I was alive when JFK was killed and remember the event). There was compelling evidence against the lone gunman theory ... and there was compelling evidence for it. The thing was, though, the amount of compelling evidence for consipiracy vs. Oswald acting alone was in the nature of a thousand to one.


I read 8 or 9 books on the subject before forming my opinon ... and I'm not willing to repeat that extensive research now. But I'm open to discussing it.





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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Yes, I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Oswald "lone gunman" theory was pretty much discredited, by the evidence in your thread title - as well as so much more it has filled books and books of meticulous research..

So..... tempted.... must.... resist.... arguing.... with...... peabrain.....



Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Yes, I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Oswald "lone gunman" theory was pretty much discredited, by the evidence in your thread title - as well as so much more it has filled books and books of meticulous research..

So..... tempted.... must.... resist.... arguing.... with...... peabrain.....


I don't know if I'd put it like that exactly, but as the video I made demonstrates that Oswald fired the fatal shot through elementary physics.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Kennedy conspiracy theorist = complete f#@cking jackass
Obi Jeewhyen = Kennedy conspiracy theorist
Obi Jeewhyen = complete f#@cking jackass

I didn't want to come right out and call you a complete f#@cking jackass until I had concrete proof, but now I feel comfortable doing so.
By the way you were alive for the Kennedy assassination? I figured that you were around 13 or 14 years old, are you an old hippy burnout retard or something? Please let us now a little bit more about yourself. It is amazing that someone could be so ignorant and foolish across the board, I must know more about you, you intriguing dolt! At least let us now if you go all the way: Do you believe that the moon landing was a farse? I sure hope so, then you would really be something, some kind of super dunce!

HARMY RULES

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Originally posted by: Rob
Kennedy conspiracy theorist = complete f#@cking jackass
Obi Jeewhyen = Kennedy conspiracy theorist
Obi Jeewhyen = complete f#@cking jackass

I didn't want to come right out and call you a complete f#@cking jackass until I had concrete proof, but now I feel comfortable doing so.
By the way you were alive for the Kennedy assassination? I figured that you were around 13 or 14 years old, are you an old hippy burnout retard or something? Please let us now a little bit more about yourself. It is amazing that someone could be so ignorant and foolish across the board, I must know more about you, you intriguing dolt! At least let us now if you go all the way: Do you believe that the moon landing was a farse? I sure hope so, then you would really be something, some kind of super dunce!



Hey 60 Watt, you know what sound I'm making right now? It sounds a lot likw Sasquatch riding Nessy while racing the magic bullet to the set of the moon landing, and that sounds like a motherfucker, HAIYO! Keep me up to date Bob.

Bob.

Bob.

Haiyo.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Lone gunman. Lee Harvey. That's all there is to it. Nothing more.
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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Yes, I thought it was pretty well accepted that the Oswald "lone gunman" theory was pretty much discredited, by the evidence in your thread title - as well as so much more it has filled books and books of meticulous research..

So..... tempted.... must.... resist.... arguing.... with...... peabrain.....


I don't know if I'd put it like that exactly, but as the video I made demonstrates that Oswald fired the fatal shot through elementary physics.


There has been a few good shows on the History Channel using re-enactments (computer generated along with professional marksmen) to show how fucking asinine the magic bullet conspiracies are, really accurate and interesting stuff (and I see you've used some of it in your videos.)

Unfortunately – the notion of JFK’s assassination being a far-reaching government conspiracy has become so driven and cemented into the brains on the worldwide public that it’s practically treated as fact (thanks to zoned-out wackos and Oliver Stone,) and no amount of credible evidence will change it. The controversy is not as popular as it once was so not only has the damage already been done, it's irreversible.

You're pissing into the wind.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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I wish i could say i knew more about the subject, as it has always intrigued me. The passing information i had learned over the years basically repeated the various arguments about the impossibility of the bullet to inflict as much damage as was done, and that always seemed like a pretty decent argument to me, though i never really looked into the matter. I am glad to see, however, a more rationalist take on the matter that debunks conspiracy theories, which i am always suspicious of. A very persuasive documentary. It is however, too a bit too brief to truely make a definitive exploration of the matter, but then i suppose there are longer shows that have been made on the subject--now i am wanting to take a look at them. It still strikes me as a bit difficult to determine the seating positions of the car passengers to the specific degrees needed to make a scientific examination of the physics of the bullet when you consider that all we have are 8mm footage that is not very detailed, though i suppose the car is photographed from enough angles throughout the incident to get some manageable data. Question: how many angles is the shot documented from? I had always thought it was the single, distant angle of film, but the video provides a really detailed close-up of the angle that would pretty much be impossible to get from an 8mm blow-up of the wide angle.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Just wait in a little more that 20 years all the documents on JFKs assassination will be made public and we'll know who really shot him.
If you can't wait that long,just watch Red Dwarf

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The ABC special "The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy" hosted by Peter Jennings is probably the most comprehensive and well done film on this subject to date. If you watch that special and you still entertain JFK conspiracy theories your are a monkey's butthole. Oliver Stone should die of gonnorrhea and rot in hell.

HARMY RULES

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That having been said, I thought that JFK was one of Oliver Stone's best films and among the top 10 films in the 90s. Sure, the conclusions are bullshit but quite a lot of work went into recreating the events surrounding his death; just look at all of the news footage, etc that they made. I may not agree with Stone's theories, but the man knows filmmaking, thats for damn sure.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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The JFK Conspiracies are utter BS, and most of them fail the Occam's Razor. They all seem to lack any kind of evidence to substantiate them.

If you want to see what a real conspiracy would look like, I invite you to look at this page: The 1979 VELA 6911 Incident.

To sum it up, One of the US detection satellites detented a double-flash off the coast of the Prince Edward Islands in the south Atlantic. The official panel to investigate it, set up by President Carter, said that the flash was from a meteoroid, because of a discrepancy in the bhangmeter readings on the satellite. Despite the conclusion by carter's Ad hoc presidential panel, the Central Intelligent Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, Los Alamos Lational Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratory all agreed that the incident was a nuclear detonation. However, that same discrepancy was also seen in confirmed nuclear tests.

In addition to the bhangmeter readings, the US Navy's network of underwater microphones detected shockwave travelling through the water from the save area at the same time as the incident. That year, a professor in Australia reported increased amounts of iodine-131, a product of Uranium fission, in sheep thyroids in Western Australia.

Despite all that evidence, which both Carter's Ad Hoc panel and the intelligence community and the DOE had access to, the offical panel set up by Jimmy Carter said that it was a meteoroid hitting the satellite. This could have been the Carter administration covering up a nuclear test, but nobody really knows or cares.

It is infinitely more likely, however, that this is simply a case of shoddy research on the par of the Ad Hoc panelt.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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I'm so absolutely sure that Oswald did not act alone and there was a conspiracy... but that's a nasty can of worms I rather not open with north americans around.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I'm with Ric - as certain as anyone can be I believe that Oswald did not act alone - whether he had help from a couple of wackos who didn't like Kennedy or the whole thing was something more organised.

Certainly don't buy into Oliver Stone's JFK and views - though I din't believe Mel Gibson's Braveheart as a reliable piece on commentating on history either


Montcalm - top Red Dwarf episode - nice idea. That episode could only be bettered if it featured Mr Flibble

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?”

“Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?” - Oddball, of The Awkward Squad

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Oswald acted alone. So far, all evidence seems to point that way, and no real evidence has surfaced to show otherwise.

The main problem is with stuff like this is that people like conspiracies and don't readly believe that one nutcase could do this on their own. An example from history is the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. At the time, there were all these theories that Booth was an agent of the Confederate goverment, personally hired by Jefferson Davis, to kill Lincoln. Lincoln's widow, Mary Todd Lincoln beleived that then VP Andrew Johnson was also involved in the assassination and was actually a Confederate spy as well. No historians today beleve any of these theores. I think one will have to wait and see what history actually decides on Kennedy.
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I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, I actually like the film JFK as work of fiction, but not as something historically correct, I read some of the consipricy books that have been around, I used to think that he was killed by some sort of conspiracy after reading them but in the cold light of day all the evidence seems to point to Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone and some of these books have yet provide real hard evidence of other people involved and some of the theories seem to me shaky and outlandish to say the least.
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Originally posted by: Rob
I must know more about you, you intriguing dolt!

Well, where to start? How about with the fact that I’m not fourteen, I’m over 40. Perhaps you’re projecting your own age group onto others. I don’t really know how old you are, I’m just making an assumption. But whereas yours about my age is presumably based on my opinions, mine about yours is based on your weaksauce debating skills which run to namecalling on a constant basis.

Here’s some gems from the brilliantly mature Rob (stuff that would get you suspended, then banned from any decent message board):
Originally posted by: Rob
You are also a rotten coward

Originally posted by: Rob
Don't worry about yourself fruitcake

Originally posted by: Rob
you're not capable of protecting your swishy self

Originally posted by: Rob
you're the first gay retard that I have come across on the net

Originally posted by: Rob
Obi Jeewhyen = complete f#@cking jackass.
I didn't want to come right out and call you a complete f#@cking jackass until I had concrete proof, but now I feel comfortable doing so.



And for good measure, because it suits the point I will come to presently, some mature remarks from you cohort in 14-year-old debate style of namecalling:

Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
you're just dumb


Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
you are a fucking moron


Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
you missed the part where I mentioned the "Impending Soviet invasion," dumbass


Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
you have the comprehension skills of a fucking salamander



Differing opinions, you will discover when you grow past teenhood, are held by all sorts of people of different ages. Namecalling is pretty much restricted to people under 16 years old. (Usually under 9 years old, but on the internet, the maturity curve seems steeper.)

In any event, to foster a non-hostile atmosphere, most message boards are pretty strict about a no personal attacks, no namecalling policy. And that’s cause there’s a lot of incredibly rude and immature people on the internet, as you two have amply demonstrated.

And while it’s been fun for a while to diss back at you - without resorting to namecalling (fyi, Rob: even though I think you’re gay, I never called you “queer” or “fag”) ... but it’s grown tiresome really quick. I feel no need to read or post at a site where a zero moderation effort lets the worst-behaved internet posters have free reign. And I certainly feel no need to discuss serious stuff like warfare or political assassination with people whose debate styles runs to the type of quotes posted above. It's really not even fun talking Star Wars at a place so hostile.


Yeah, that means ... oh congratulate yourself boys ... you’ve run me off. Oh, whatever shall I do without originaltrilogy.com in my life? I’ll probably have to cry myself to sleep for a few nights, but I’ll eventually get over it. Maybe in a month or so. Or, more likely, in five minutes.


(YAGEing is such bad message board form. But, then again, so is allowing a free-for-all of personal attacks and childish namecalling. So what the heck? Might as well YAGE.)
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The cine footage seems to show JFK's face getting blown off, which would strike me as consistent with a bullet from behind his head.

I saw the documentary mentioned above and I agree, it does convince me that the injuries sustained by the occupants of the car could have been caused by bullets from the book depository.

But all that tells me is that a gunman from the book depository could have caused the injuries.

It by no means proves that Oswald was the gunman or that he acted without anyone else knowing about it, let alone anyone supporting him. I'm sure the documentary makers would agree, since their focus was purely on the gunshot wounds and where the shots that caused them could have come from.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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I think Oswald was the one and only gunman. It's possible he had people behind him who wanted Kennedy dead, and hired him to do it or used him as a scapegoat, but most of the consipiracy theories have absolutely no evidence.

The most likely scenario is that Oswald was a frickin' Communist that hated JFK and wanted him dead... and made it happen.

The video footage clearly shows the exit wound was in the front of Kennedy's head, which means the killing shot came from behind--end of story.

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I think it's unlikely that the Communists would have been so desperate to kill JFK as to successfully assassinate him while other, more anti-Communist Presidents were allowed to live.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
The cine footage seems to show JFK's face getting blown off, which would strike me as consistent with a bullet from behind his head.

I saw the documentary mentioned above and I agree, it does convince me that the injuries sustained by the occupants of the car could have been caused by bullets from the book depository.

But all that tells me is that a gunman from the book depository could have caused the injuries.

It by no means proves that Oswald was the gunman or that he acted without anyone else knowing about it, let alone anyone supporting him. I'm sure the documentary makers would agree, since their focus was purely on the gunshot wounds and where the shots that caused them could have come from.


Very good point; when I made the documentary I could have obviously gone on and on and made a whole mini-series about it, but time permitting...

In any case, it is most likely that Oswald did it (assuming all shots were fired from the Depository) because not only did people see him at the time, but his prints were found on the weapon.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
In any case, it is most likely that Oswald did it (assuming all shots were fired from the Depository) because not only did people see him at the time, but his prints were found on the weapon.
Purely circumstantial!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Oswald definitely pulled the trigger, and I personally don't believe there was anyone pulling the strings. It's just not been disproven, so the conspiracy nuts will eat that fact up.

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I think that a lot of the JFK CT's overestimate the KE of bullets, or they get their information from TV and Motion Pictures.

Bullets travel slow enough that we can use the formula E=1/2mv^2 to calculate. The rifle that Oswald used had a muzzle velocity of 700 meters per second, and used 128 grain ammunition. Plugging that into the KE formula we get E=(1/2)(0.00829 kg)(700 m/s). When we calculate that, the total Kinetic energy of 2.9015 joules. For comparison, 1 joule is equivalent to 0.000239 kilocalories, the unit of measure used to measure food.

You also seem to be forgetting about Newton's 3rd Law of Motion. Even if there was a 2nd gunman who shot Kennedy with enough force to visibly knock his head back, that same amount of energy would have also been exerted on the shoot as well. Meaning that your second gunman would have had a broken collarbone, and several ribs, if he had used a rifle roferful enough to exert enough energy to knock Kennedy back and to the left.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.