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Avatar and Politics in general (mild spoilers)

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Yes, I realize that we already had an Avatar thread and a Politics thread... but I didn't want to derail (as if this were possible) either one.

So, I had heard various reports of the amount of pro-liberal content in Avatar.  I mentioned a quote earlier in the Avatar and 3D thread that Cameron claimed he was trying to step lightly around the political pitfalls.

Having seen the movie this morning... he's flat out lying.  There are parts of this movie that are so oriented as to specifically evoke political controversy surrounding President George W. Bush and the current conflict in Middle East.

But let me take a step back.  I really wanted to like this movie, and I came pretty close.  I was aware of the hype and how distorted hype has effected me in the past and prevented me from enjoying an otherwise good movie.  I'm also a 3D nut, and have sat through- nay, enjoyed! some terrible movies just because they were in 3D.  I went in with guarded expectations and I felt the movie really won me over.  Until the 3rd act started.

It's really summed up in a couple lines from the characters.  Perhaps someone at fanedit will produce a "Tolerable for Conservatives or anyone else not drinking the Green Kool-Aid" edit.  Shouldn't be too hard to cut 5 lines of dialogue maybe.

Here's the dialogue:
The evil human's attack on the peaceful Na'vi is referred to as "some sort of 'shock and awe' tactic".  Obviously an referrence to the US and Ally's tactics in the Middle East.

The evil Colonel of the Marines tells the human soldiers that the Na'vi are about to attack them and that they must match "terror for terror."

Jake, disgusted that his fellow humans are not being patient enough with the Na'vi, throws a book on their culture down and says, "this is what humans do!  They find someone living on top of something they want, and they make them an enemy so they can take it!"  Seems a little too ripe of the theories that Bush staged 9-11 (or at least allowed it to happen) so that we could go to war and make oil prices.... go up?

And finally:
Jake tells the "Gaia" like spirit that is the God of the Na'vi people... that there is no green left on Earth and that the people there killed their mother and that he needs to stop them from doing the same thing here.

There's also one more shot of when the evil humans are scrambling to their fighters that shows this incredible dense brown smog hanging over their compound.  And there are about 28 smoke stacks billowing in the background.  Just in case you didn't get it.

What did I miss?

I think it's really a shame.  Technically, it's all there.  The movie is well acted, the CG is superb, I enjoyed the 3D quite a bit.  The music is moving, the action is exciting, and the characters are compelling.  If Cameron could have simply avoided using it as soapbox to bash George W. Bush (the election of which caused Cameron to cancel his application for US citizenship) it would have been totally great.

I admire you, my liberal friends, for you probably enjoyed the movie with little exception.

Now if Global Warming weren't a total crock.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I really don't understand why the political agenda of a film like Avatar prevents people from liking it.  I love The Dark Knight, and that film had very conservative undertones.  The way I see it, it's there if you want to take it in, but you can ignore it and enjoy the ride if you like.

I also don't understand how environmentalism is "liberal."  It's an issue that affects everyone, and guess what?  If we keep going the way we're going, we ARE going to seriously fuck up our planet.  Just because you don't like that idea doesn't mean you should dislike a movie that says, "Hey, we should probably think a little bit before we do this shit next time.

And I don't see the "This is what humans do!" line as a Bush commentary at all.  That is what humans do.  Look at what we did to the Native Americans, or Alexander's conquests, or the Nazis, or any other part of human history.

By the way, I'm not trying to attack you personally in any way.  I'm just throwing my two cents in the pile.

a trolling bantha

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I don't necessarily dislike Avatar just because of the politics, but they do help me to hate it. I do not like that they portray the "villainous" army to be "Marines" who happen to dress, look, and act like our U.S. Marine Corp. Put on top of it that it is pretty much "Dances in Wolves in Space".

For me, as a Conservative, I am absolute sick of almost every medium being unabashedly anti-conservative. Most every movie made these days have an anti-conservative tone to me, not all, but most. Then I turn my TV at night and see Letterman proclaiming conservatives as stupid, Jon Stewart displaying conservatives as neanderthals, SNL hating on us, so on and so forth. And almost every interview with mainstream actors eventually ends up with the "intellectual" movie star proclaiming conservatives as morons. Despite the fact that conservatives are the clear majority in the United States, the media and Hollywood would have you think otherwise. It's quite aggravating that my side is constantly demonized for our beliefs. I could go on and on, but I'll stop for now.

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It's not that conservatives are stupid neanderthals, it's that stupid neanderthals have hijacked the Republican party and created a new breed of "conservative" that isn't really conservative.  Blame Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin, and the Bushes for the anti-conservative tone of today's media, not David Letterman, Jon Stewart, or SNL.

a trolling bantha

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So you are agreeing that conservatives of the "Glenn Beck", "Rush Limbaugh", "Bill O'Reilly" and "Sarah Palin" variety are stupid neanderthals?

I think the issue here, in part, is that the divide is too wide, and it is nearly impossible for either side to relate. The reason they seem like stupid neanderthals to you is because you don't hold any of the same values they do, and they don't hold any of the values you do. There is no connect there. You cannot relate. The fact that they constantly harp on about the same things endlessly doesn't help (dey took er jabs!), but quite honestly, the other side is just as asinine.

Guys like Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann are just as big of tools as guys like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly. It is just that neither side is willing to admit this. Obviously, if you argee with someone, then they are absolutely brilliant and a fantastic commentator that everyone should be watching; but if you don't agree with them, then they are obviously trying to pull the wool over their follower's eyes in attempts to achieve something really sinister.

So it goes, until guys like Olbermann and Beck don't matter anymore and people are able to get worked up about things that they feel matter on their own without needing the guidance from commentators. But due to mankind's sheepish herd mentality, that is never going to happen. We are natural followers, just waiting for the next guy to stand up on his soapbox and lead us into revolution. Throughout history goverments have risen and fallen in just this manner. That sort of thing isn't going to change anytime soon.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

So you are agreeing that conservatives of the "Glenn Beck", "Rush Limbaugh", "Bill O'Reilly" and "Sarah Palin" variety are stupid neanderthals?

I think the issue here, in part, is that the divide is too wide, and it is nearly impossible for either side to relate. The reason they seem like stupid neanderthals to you is because you don't hold any of the same values they do, and they don't hold any of the values you do. There is no connect there. You cannot relate. The fact that they constantly harp on about the same things endlessly doesn't help (dey took er jabs!), but quite honestly, the other side is just as asinine.

I'm a conservative Christian and I have to say that I think the celebrities you listed are "stupid neanderthals."  I agree with a fair bit of what they say politically, but I don't agree with their methods or how they act, nor do I think all political conservatives are stupid.

Its the same way with Christianity.  Some guy runs around taking money from poor old ladies claiming he can heal them, and all Christians look stupid.  No Christian or Republican can represent everything you believe and keep a perfect record so as not to make you look stupid.

“005 is super hep” - dahmage

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ChainsawAsh said:

It's not that conservatives are stupid neanderthals, it's that stupid neanderthals have hijacked the Republican party and created a new breed of "conservative" that isn't really conservative.  Blame Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sarah Palin, and the Bushes for the anti-conservative tone of today's media, not David Letterman, Jon Stewart, or SNL.

 I disagree, I think the Republican Party has rejected its Conservative foundation. The Republicans tried to run a "liberal light" candidate last election and it failed. The republicans had a "compassioate conservative" who was really a moderate in the Oval Officer for 8 years and you see how much he was liked. Fact is, America hasn't had a true conservative for President since Reagan.

Of the poeple you listed, only three are conservatives, O'Reilly, and both Bushes are moderates, they are not conservatives at all. I happen to really like Limbaugh and Beck, and I love Palin, because they all make sense to me. Does that make me a neanderthal? Most people who rush to judgement about those three have hardly given them a chance to hear them out, they just run on assumptions or others perceptions rather than their own judgement. Beck is crazy, and his presentations are quite tiring, but his points are very valid and usually spot on. This guy is responsible for at least two people having the step down from Obama's cabinent becuase they could not explain their past. Limbaugh can be arrogant, but he too makes some very good observations in my opinion. I happen to think that Palin is exactly what America needs right now, a real person who wasn't brought up in a rich family or subjected to years of eilite college instruction. Again, that's all my opinion. I believe in Freedom, not tyranny. I believe in the Death Penalty, I believe in capitalism and the free market. I think abortion is murder. I think any human being who supports killing an innocent baby while saving the life of a murderer is twisted. Those are just a few of my beliefs, so why does a majority of the Hollywood elite hate me so much even though some of my hard earned dollars finance their pampered way of life? I don't get it at all.

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But Palin said, "I can see RUSSIA from MyyYYyyy HoUsE!!!"  Didn't she?  What.  An.  Idiot!

No, wait...  She said, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska -- from an island in Alaska."

SNL said that other thing... but somehow everyone came away saying "What an idiot!" about the real Palin.

So, yeah... I blame SNL.  They set out to politically assassinate Palin which they did quite well. 

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

But Palin said, "I can see RUSSIA from MyyYYyyy HoUsE!!!"  Didn't she?  What.  An.  Idiot!

No, wait...  She said, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska -- from an island in Alaska."

SNL said that other thing... but somehow everyone came away saying "What an idiot!" about the real Palin.

So, yeah... I blame SNL.  They set out to politically assassinate Palin which they did quite well. 

SNL didn't really have to do anything to politically assassinate Palin. That interview with Couric was a disaster.

In case anyone needs reminding: Sarah Palin's Greatest Hits

(by the way, does anyone else find any similarities between her and David Brent? Not looks, obviously :P )

Sarah Palin is nothing but a trained monkey. The higher-ups in the Republican Party train her these standard speeches and responses to questions, and she repeats them on national television. She rattles off these speeches but when you look in her eyes it's like she doesn't really understand the words that are coming out of her mouth.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Nanner Split said:

xhonzi said:

But Palin said, "I can see RUSSIA from MyyYYyyy HoUsE!!!"  Didn't she?  What.  An.  Idiot!

No, wait...  She said, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska -- from an island in Alaska."

SNL said that other thing... but somehow everyone came away saying "What an idiot!" about the real Palin.

So, yeah... I blame SNL.  They set out to politically assassinate Palin which they did quite well. 

SNL didn't really have to do anything to politically assassinate Palin. That interview with Couric was a disaster.

In case anyone needs reminding: Sarah Palin's Greatest Hits

(by the way, does anyone else find any similarities between her and David Brent? Not looks, obviously :P )

Sarah Palin is nothing but a trained monkey. The higher-ups in the Republican Party train her these standard speeches and responses to questions, and she repeats them on national television. She rattles off these speeches but when you look in her eyes it's like she doesn't really understand the words that are coming out of her mouth.

Whatever, I think that Palin is extremely intelligent, very bright, and going to make you eat your words someday. I'll admit the Couric interview was awful, but I chalk that up to bad handling by McCain's pack of morons, who proved they could run a campaign as effectively as the Marx Brothers.

Palin is a very serious threat to the liberal agenda, which is why they all attempt to portray her has this "moron" or "idiot", when she is quite the opposite.

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ferris209 said:

Nanner Split said:

xhonzi said:

But Palin said, "I can see RUSSIA from MyyYYyyy HoUsE!!!"  Didn't she?  What.  An.  Idiot!

No, wait...  She said, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska -- from an island in Alaska."

SNL said that other thing... but somehow everyone came away saying "What an idiot!" about the real Palin.

So, yeah... I blame SNL.  They set out to politically assassinate Palin which they did quite well. 

SNL didn't really have to do anything to politically assassinate Palin. That interview with Couric was a disaster.

In case anyone needs reminding: Sarah Palin's Greatest Hits

(by the way, does anyone else find any similarities between her and David Brent? Not looks, obviously :P )

Sarah Palin is nothing but a trained monkey. The higher-ups in the Republican Party train her these standard speeches and responses to questions, and she repeats them on national television. She rattles off these speeches but when you look in her eyes it's like she doesn't really understand the words that are coming out of her mouth.

Whatever, I think that Palin is extremely intelligent, very bright, and going to make you eat your words someday.

What the hay!? Ferris, you know me. You know I'm no liberal. And that's a ridiculous statement. Palin has repeatedly proven herself to be a far-right nutjob who emotes rather than thinks. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but Palin's brand of brainless 'conservatism' is not going to win elections.

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On the original topic, I enjoyed Avatar fairly well. The political angle annoyed me and I was surprised by how unsubtle it was, but I knew going in to expect that and was able to enjoy the film in spite of it all.

I think a good fan-editor could probably take some of the stupider moments out and make it a better film.

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Darth Chaltab said:

ferris209 said:

Nanner Split said:

xhonzi said:

But Palin said, "I can see RUSSIA from MyyYYyyy HoUsE!!!"  Didn't she?  What.  An.  Idiot!

No, wait...  She said, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska -- from an island in Alaska."

SNL said that other thing... but somehow everyone came away saying "What an idiot!" about the real Palin.

So, yeah... I blame SNL.  They set out to politically assassinate Palin which they did quite well. 

SNL didn't really have to do anything to politically assassinate Palin. That interview with Couric was a disaster.

In case anyone needs reminding: Sarah Palin's Greatest Hits

(by the way, does anyone else find any similarities between her and David Brent? Not looks, obviously :P )

Sarah Palin is nothing but a trained monkey. The higher-ups in the Republican Party train her these standard speeches and responses to questions, and she repeats them on national television. She rattles off these speeches but when you look in her eyes it's like she doesn't really understand the words that are coming out of her mouth.

Whatever, I think that Palin is extremely intelligent, very bright, and going to make you eat your words someday.

What the hay!? Ferris, you know me. You know I'm no liberal. And that's a ridiculous statement. Palin has repeatedly proven herself to be a far-right nutjob who emotes rather than thinks. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but Palin's brand of brainless 'conservatism' is not going to win elections.

I don't understand how you can say this! Have you read her book? Have you watched ALL of her interviews and not just those with far left propagandists? Have you read any of her stuff? I have, I've studied her very in depth. Yes, I do know you, which saddens you that you've bought into the lame stream medias interpretation of Palin.

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I don't see her as brainless as inexperienced. Her accent annoys the hell out of me, but I never saw anything that seemed to indicate she really lacked intelligence. The whole McCain campaign was just one massive joke, and this poor woman found her self as part of the punchline and didn't even seem to realize it. There is no doubt the woman was in WAY over her head; which went along brilliantly with the decrepit old asshole they were trying to pass off as a presidential candidate.

Her stepping down from her elected position was another nail in her political coffin; that was just a really lousy move. If I had been a citizen of Alaska and voted for her, I'd have been pissed. I am now quite certain she will never amount to anything politically. My prediction is that she is now official a hasbeen and the height and end of her legacy will be her recently published book. This is coming from the guy who use to think she had a lot of potential. Oh well, won't be the first person who let fame go to their head and made dumb choices because of it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I don't pay attention to the mainstream media, my opinion of Palin has been formed from her own mouth--quotes that show she's rather ignorant of the national government's workings, pandering to the far right's opposition to health care reform on her twitter page, etc.

I'm not saying she's completely stupid, but she's a borderline fanatic and clearly not ready for higher office. And after her ridiculous clothing expenditures during the campaign, I have doubts that she's really the fiscal conservative she pretends to be.

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Darth Chaltab said:

I don't pay attention to the mainstream media, my opinion of Palin has been formed from her own mouth--quotes that show she's rather ignorant of the national government's workings, pandering to the far right's opposition to health care reform on her twitter page, etc.

I'm not saying she's completely stupid, but she's a borderline fanatic and clearly not ready for higher office. And after her ridiculous clothing expenditures during the campaign, I have doubts that she's really the fiscal conservative she pretends to be.

Cool! But please take into consideration that those quotes have been blown out of proportion. Even Obama stated at one point we had 57 states.

Why is it "pandering" that she doesn't support this health care reform, and why do you think it's the "far right's opposition"? According to every poll, most Americans are against this "reform", as am I.

Her clothing, let's be serious here, while I have not ever worked in a National level campaign, I do have a couple friends who have. We actually talked about this exact subject of the "clothing debacle". It's not like the horridly ran McCain campaign gave her a debit card and told her to get cloths. Many, many image advisers, consultants, public relations persons, and even upper level staff just got her clothing measurements and bought the stuff for her without hardly any of her input, tossed it in her room, and told her to wear it. Being a VP candidate is not exactly a free will position, you are at the beck and call of the Presidential candidate and at the direction of the campaign manager who appoints a shit ton of "experts" to "help" perfect the VP candidates image to what the campaign wants.

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ferris209 said:

my side is ....

When we stop having sides and start putting America first - then, and only then, will things start to improve.  The team mentality that is our culture these days - Team first, America second - has done serious damage to our country, our way of life, and our place in the global community. 

Both sides are at fault.  Both sides go out of their way to vote on issues solely out of spite. Each team making sure that the first order of business is to undo what the other team did, then do what they want, usually just the opposite, to send a message - to crotch-grab.  Team first, America second.

When we reach a point where congressmen are yelling "you lie" during a President's speech, we've sunk to high school level behavior. I have no doubt that it will get worse before it gets better. We'll learn this one the hard way.

=====================================

This, my fellow board members, will be my only input in political discussion.  I only threw it out there so you guys would know my feelings on our political & social culture.   Political discussions these days rarely amount to anything more than yell-downs - more of our bravado-driven culture.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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What is the alternative? A culture of compromise? Keep in mind there are more than two sides, there always has been. There is a lot of bullshit these days, but it is not (always) just out of spite, some people actually do have values they believe in. Maybe "putting America first" is the reason some of us feel so strongly about the issues we feel so strongly about. Maybe we actually do feel that some things (like Obama's health care bill, or this INSANE out of control spending bullshit) are really going to hurt this country (American, not our "team") and that is why we stand against them. I think the checks and balances of varying opinions protects us to a good degree. God forbid either side should have their way unchecked. This whole "OMG! TEH COUNTRY IS COMING APART AT THE SEAMS!!!1" argument hasn't much merit, IMHO. Or at least I cannot see it, and have yet to hear a good argument for it. Every country has citizens with diverse political ideologies and opinions, why should the United States be any different? Oh yeah, but the political commentators say, "OMG, THESE NEOCONS ARE DIVIDING THIS COUNRY IN TWO!!!!1". Where were the cries for unity during the last administration?

 

Darth Chaltab said:

I don't pay attention to the mainstream media, my opinion of Palin has been formed from her own mouth--quotes that show she's rather ignorant of the national government's workings, pandering to the far right's opposition to health care reform on her twitter page, etc...

And after her ridiculous clothing expenditures during the campaign, I have doubts that she's really the fiscal conservative she pretends to be.

 

These two statements are very much at odds with each other. It was the mainstream media who made the huge fuss about her clothing, you claim you don't pay attention to the mainstream media, yet you use their exact argument concerning her clothing. Never mind how much Biden's suites cost, no matter what Michelle Obama's dresses cost, the neanderthal woman with the silly accent is paying too much for her clothes! What is this world coming too! Just be honest Chalt's, are you really not paying attention to the mainstream media on this one?

Also, it is interesting you'd attribute opposition to health care reform as something belonging to the "far right", and assuming that Palin "twittering" about it means she is pandering, rather than genuinely caring about it herself. I am adamantly against health care reform (in the form of Obama's health care plan anyway, I do however, feel the current system needs fixed), does this mean I am pandering? Or "far right"? (everyone here would probably answer this question with a "Yes", which kind of makes me laugh).

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

These two statements are very much at odds with each other. It was the mainstream media who made the huge fuss about her clothing, you claim you don't pay attention to the mainstream media, yet you use their exact argument concerning her clothing. Never mind how much Biden's suites cost, no matter what Michelle Obama's dresses cost, the neanderthal woman with the silly accent is paying too much for her clothes! What is this world coming too! Just be honest Chalt's, are you really not paying attention to the mainstream media on this one?

Also, it is interesting you'd attribute opposition to health care reform as something belonging to the "far right", and assuming that Palin "twittering" about it means she is pandering, rather than genuinely caring about it herself. I am adamantly against health care reform (in the form of Obama's health care plan anyway, I do however, feel the current system needs fixed), does this mean I am pandering? Or "far right"? (everyone here would probably answer this question with a "Yes", which kind of makes me laugh).

Nobody ever accused Biden and Michelle Obama of being fiscal conservatives. I wasn't aware that blogs and websites counted as the mainstream media. I get almost none of my news from CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or news publications. I may overhear stuff on networks when others are watching, but I honestly can't stand the mainstream media and don't read or watch them as a matter of course.

Also, it is interesting you'd attribute opposition to health care reform as something belonging to the "far right", and assuming that Palin "twittering" about it means she is pandering, rather than genuinely caring about it herself.

I'm not talking about honest opposition, I'm talking about pandering to the ridiculous fears of the far right--telling supporters that there will be death panels and state-funded abortions. Lying is endemic in politics, and I'm ashamed to see someone who supposedly represents my party and its viewpoints working the crowds like that.

And while it speaks poorly of the Democrats that they can't get the much-needed health care reform passed, it is in part because of the reaction from the far right that the bill as it exists is a disaster and deserves to fail. The problem is that the tea-party crowd is by and large not interested in even beneficial health care reform. The idea of a single-payer system clearly isn't going to happen (thankfully), yet they still act like any possible bill is a bad bill. They seem to want no reform at any cost. It's the very definition of reactionary, and it's hardly the ideal that the GOP was founded on or that Reagan was talking about when he spoke of American exceptionalism.

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Darth Chaltab said:

The problem is that the tea-party crowd is by and large not interested in even beneficial health care reform. The idea of a single-payer system clearly isn't going to happen (thankfully), yet they still act like any possible bill is a bad bill. They seem to want no reform at any cost. It's the very definition of reactionary, and it's hardly the ideal that the GOP was founded on or that Reagan was talking about when he spoke of American exceptionalism.

 I think your perception is sadly mistaken here DC. I am a member of the Tea Party Patriots and have participated in three Tea Party events so far. Every Tea Party protester I've spoken with is all for actual healthcare reform, not this mass takeover which the likes of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are hoping for. Just about every Tea Party member I've spoken with want tort reform in healthcare, a free market for insuracne companies who are currently regulated, and provide tax incentives and breaks on health insurance for individuals. Hell, even a few of my fellow Tea Partiers wouldn't mind a "catastrophic health-care assistance program" from the government if applied for by the individual.

I think your're seeing the forest and paying no mind to the trees on this.

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I have never been to a Tea-Party event myself, but have several friends who have been active in every Tea-Party event in their area, and I can say the same about them. They are all for reform, just not the BS that is being pushed right now.

It has always struck me as kind of funny how these Tea-Party types are treated (again, I'd say it is because of mainstream media). It would be like me looking at the people attending a gay right parade and making the claim that by and large they are not really interested in gay rights, but rather, are simply just being reactionary. Not really sure why one side is worthy of paying attention to when they support their freedom of speech and protest, while the other side doing the same deserves nothing but scorn (tea baggers, tea bagging, etc.)

The Tea-Party crowd is all about ending this out of control spending, so why is this idea seen as something worthy of heavy piss taking? Oh right, we are just going along with whatever Olbermann tells us, not even sure why I asked.

You may not pay attention to the news media Chaltab, but it sounds like your bloggers, or whatever your sources of information are, certainly do. Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds like you are being hit with the exact same BS, only second hand.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Nanner Split said:

 

 

Sarah Palin is nothing but a trained monkey. The higher-ups in the Republican Party train her these standard speeches and responses to questions, and she repeats them on national television. She rattles off these speeches but when you look in her eyes it's like she doesn't really understand the words that are coming out of her mouth.

Textbook sexism. If Sarah Palin weren't female she wouldn't get the degree or sort of attacks that she does. Dismissing her as nothing like the above post does is falling into the classic sexist pattern of dismissing women as being nothings who are utterly dependent on men and have nothing to offer themselves. Sarah Palin is a hugely capable woman and only prejudice, whether political or gender-based, prevents people from seeing that. That is not to say I agree with her views. But I have no trouble seeing the ability and force of the woman.

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xhonzi said:

Yes, I realize that we already had an Avatar thread and a Politics thread... but I didn't want to derail (as if this were possible) either one.

So, I had heard various reports of the amount of pro-liberal content in Avatar.  I mentioned a quote earlier in the Avatar and 3D thread that Cameron claimed he was trying to step lightly around the political pitfalls.

Having seen the movie this morning... he's flat out lying.  There are parts of this movie that are so oriented as to specifically evoke political controversy surrounding President George W. Bush and the current conflict in Middle East.

But let me take a step back.  I really wanted to like this movie, and I came pretty close.  I was aware of the hype and how distorted hype has effected me in the past and prevented me from enjoying an otherwise good movie.  I'm also a 3D nut, and have sat through- nay, enjoyed! some terrible movies just because they were in 3D.  I went in with guarded expectations and I felt the movie really won me over.  Until the 3rd act started.

It's really summed up in a couple lines from the characters.  Perhaps someone at fanedit will produce a "Tolerable for Conservatives or anyone else not drinking the Green Kool-Aid" edit.  Shouldn't be too hard to cut 5 lines of dialogue maybe.

Here's the dialogue:
The evil human's attack on the peaceful Na'vi is referred to as "some sort of 'shock and awe' tactic".  Obviously an referrence to the US and Ally's tactics in the Middle East.

The evil Colonel of the Marines tells the human soldiers that the Na'vi are about to attack them and that they must match "terror for terror."

Jake, disgusted that his fellow humans are not being patient enough with the Na'vi, throws a book on their culture down and says, "this is what humans do!  They find someone living on top of something they want, and they make them an enemy so they can take it!"  Seems a little too ripe of the theories that Bush staged 9-11 (or at least allowed it to happen) so that we could go to war and make oil prices.... go up?

And finally:
Jake tells the "Gaia" like spirit that is the God of the Na'vi people... that there is no green left on Earth and that the people there killed their mother and that he needs to stop them from doing the same thing here.

There's also one more shot of when the evil humans are scrambling to their fighters that shows this incredible dense brown smog hanging over their compound.  And there are about 28 smoke stacks billowing in the background.  Just in case you didn't get it.

What did I miss?

I think it's really a shame.  Technically, it's all there.  The movie is well acted, the CG is superb, I enjoyed the 3D quite a bit.  The music is moving, the action is exciting, and the characters are compelling.  If Cameron could have simply avoided using it as soapbox to bash George W. Bush (the election of which caused Cameron to cancel his application for US citizenship) it would have been totally great.

I admire you, my liberal friends, for you probably enjoyed the movie with little exception.

Now if Global Warming weren't a total crock.

I don't think global warming is a total crock. Whether we can really do anything about it is another question, but I do think we should try. That said, I understand the urge to react against all the trendy shouting about the matter. 

Your report on Avatar is interesting. It sounds much as I expected. A film drowning in self-satisfied poltical bullshit. It's amazing how people can still continue to view the Iraq war as the US going to invade Iraq for oil (that tired cliche) and as the US then killing all the Iraqis who have died there. There are so many obvious reasons why Bush and co might have wanted to go into Iraq other than oil. And the fact remains that what the US did was liberate Iraq from an oppressive dictatorship under a GENOCIDAL dictator. As a result there were democratic elections in Iraq. The US created hope for a bright new future for Iraq. And the terrorists vandalized that. That last is the crucial point that many left-wingers like to forget. That the terrorists played a part and are the actual people who have made Iraq the mess it has become. That it wasn't all the US. The terrorists were the ones who killed all those Iraqis and the US troops there been PROTECTING the Iraqis from them. And pulling out of Iraq is leaving the Iraqi people to the mercy of the terrorists. I can't understand liberals who claim to care about the Iraqi people but want the US to pull out of Iraq and abandon them. Though I can certainly understand the urge to pull out Iraq, considering how hard the war has been for the US. So Hollywood spouts trendy brainless cliches to sell a big event movie. Watch The Hurt Locker instead. That film shows some of the horror in Iraq without beating you over the head with poorly thought-out political cliches. 

Also, I am sick of fiction that goes on about how awful the human race is while showing how some alien species is so much better. We are all human and we should have some respect for the human race, despite its faults. This contempt for humanity is disgusting. And if some alien species is as much like us as such alien races have to be to be portrayed as relatable, then that alien species would share our faults. Lets have the non-whitewashed version of the Navi. I bet that really "what humans do" they do too, all the conquest and war and bloodshed. Come on Mr Cameron, let's have the real story of the Navi. Fat chance of us seeing that, because that would require some complexity and intelligence and we're not going to get that in a film like this.

 

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Vaderisnothayden said:

Textbook sexism. If Sarah Palin weren't female she wouldn't get the degree or sort of attacks that she does. Dismissing her as nothing like the above post does is falling into the classic sexist pattern of dismissing women as being nothings who are utterly dependent on men and have nothing to offer themselves. Sarah Palin is a hugely capable woman and only prejudice, whether political or gender-based, prevents people from seeing that. That is not to say I agree with her views. But I have no trouble seeing the ability and force of the woman.

If Sarah Palin weren't female, I'd be saying the exact same thing, but you wouldn't be able to accuse me of sexism. I don't give a shit what reproductive organs she has, I don't take her seriously because she's a moron. Only ignorance causes you to assume that the only reason people could possibly disapprove of her is because of something as petty as gender difference.

You're guilty of the exact same thing as every two-bit TV pundit from Beck to Olbermann, from O'Reilly to Maddow, which is trying to dismiss someone's opinion by affixing a label to it in order to diminish it's over-all value. Responding to someone's idea by saying "That's just 'cause you're sexist", or "Cause she's a woman", or "Because he's a liberal!", "Because he's a Republican!", or any other bullshit like that is not a debate or a reasoned reply; it's an ad hominem argument and it makes you look like a fool.

Now go the fuck back to bed. Adults are talking.

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