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Audience reaction to the reveal? — Page 2

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Originally posted by: DocLathropBrown
Just curious, being of the wrong generation, I wanted to ask those of you who saw The Empire Strikes Back in the theaters back in 1980: what was audience reaction like for the Vader/Luke reveal?

I can only wonder what people would have said, done or felt back in the day before it became common knowledge.

Oh, if only I could go back and experience the trilogy on their respective opening days. I'm downloading the famous bootleg of Star Wars from 1977, Pre-ANH. Quality's supposed to be terrible, but I'm curious about audience reaction. That, to me, helps a theatrical film experience if it's a tentpole movie like a SW flick or Batman, Superman, etc...


I don't remember the reaction the threater, but I do remember were the "was Darth Vader really Lukes father?" debate at schools between the releases of ESB and ROTJ.
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Sad to say, the first time I got into Star Wars was the SNES games . ANH was the only OT movie I had watched in whole until 2004, but I knew Vader was Luke's father when I first saw the scene in 2002 :X.

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I never saw it in the theaters, but I was lucky enough to have not heard the father line before I saw Empire. I was shocked and genuinely agreed with luke's sick feeling. otherwise, I believed it was true from the start. Luke knew in his heart who his father really was at the end.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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There was certainly an element of surprise and shock. However, like a few other people have mentioned - most of us, myself included, just thought Vader was lying to Luke. It didn't seem right, so we figured it must have been a lie. That's the one thing I remember people debating afterwards.

Also worth mentioning - and someone brought this up just a few days ago - it was just about the worst kept secret in the world. I saw Empire about 2 or 3 days after it was released and me and my buddy had already heard about the big surprise. Seemed like everyone had. I remember waiting in this crazy-ass long line to see it. It was showing at a theatre that was in the corner of a large shopping center and our spot in the line was so far back that we were in the alley behind the center. Theatres were much larger back then and we still ended up waiting through a showing and having to wait for the next one. There were that many people out there. Everyone in line already knew, seemed like.

*edit* - I should point out that personally I hoped it was a lie until Return came out. It seemed wrong to me to make Vader something other than a really mean guy. It weakened the character to give him some tie to the good guys, some relation to them. It muddied the waters because you couldn't just outright cheer for the good guys, and want the bad guys to be defeated. You suddenly had to decide whether or not you wanted to have some concern for him. It was the first of many steps Lucas took in shrinking the Star Wars universe and weakening the story. I certainly liked the movie when it came out, but that twist dampened my enthusiasm considerably. Once it was official (In Return), there was only one movie I cared about.
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There really was all this debate about whether he could be lying? That explains the the big "reveal" by Yoda in ROTJ that Vader actually is Luke's father. I had no idea why Luke needed like "confirmation" from Yoda on the subject, and why there was such a big musical sting right after Yoda said "your father is" like it was some big surprise.

I never had a first viewing of Star Wars so this is totally cool.

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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In 1980, when I saw TESB in the theater at age 17, my first reaction to Vader's line "I am your father" was one of major disappointment. I feltit sounded to much like something out of a soap opera (like Dallas at the time). These kind of reveals or cliffhangers are common in soap opera's and Star Wars was starting to look like one. Well, in ROTJ it got even worse when we learned that Leia, Luke's love interest in TESB, was in fact his sister!
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I waited in line for 4 hours and then some fat guy and his blue haired girlfriend came out of the theater and ruined the surprise for me.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: vtpeters
I feltit sounded to much like something out of a soap opera...These kind of reveals or cliffhangers are common in soap opera's and Star Wars was starting to look like one.

Very good point. It's because there wasn't enough story to carry another film and Lucas was starting his process of making up stuff on the fly so that he had some reason to continue.

Weak.

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It is funny cause I am a huge OT fan, but the Vader reveal I always thought was overrated. Maybe because I saw SW in '77, and that is my favorite movie of all-time, and I know Lucas did not intend Luke/Vader to be son/father in '77.

I always thought that ROTJ could have revealed that Vader was lying to Luke, cause that would have been cool. It would have made ESB so much more powerful cause not only did Vader physically beat Luke on Cloud City, but it F**ked him up mentally as to who Lukes father was.

It could have created a great decision in ROTJ for who Luke should trust, ObiWan or Vader? Maybe even ending the saga as Luke kills Vader and we never know if he had killed his father, or he killed the man who killed his father? Just a different twist I guess.

As for all the redemption of Darth Vader crap in ROTJ, and now the full of arc of the PT, that story does nothing for me, SW movies shouldn't be that personal, cause the way Lucas makes the movies, those scenes just come off as goofy compared to the powerful dramatic scenes in SW & ESB.

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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
someone brought this up just a few days ago - it was just about the worst kept secret in the world.

Heheh, I think that was me.

I'm really glad I saw the opening midnight show of Empire, because the reveal was already out to the people who were in line for the 3am show as I was leaving the theater. It did not, as I posted earlier, get the same respect as the reveal in The Sixth Sense, which inspired a world-wide conspiracy of silence. To me, that speaks volumes about the effect of the reveal on the general public, indicating it was fun ... but not an amazement of shock.

But the reveal was a great surprise at that opening show. Personally, I didn't get the impression it was a lie ... because it just seemed too important as the climax of an entire movie. I knew that meant either Obi-Wan was lying or Vader was ... and though I knew a big, fat lie would be more in line with Vader's M.O., I just couldn't see a fake-out like that being used as the denoument of the film.


It was a wonderful gasp moment ... and it wasn't till the next morning that I realized the turn in the story was about as gay as it could be.

There always being the remote possibility that Vader was lying, it was a fun three years till the paternity test was confirmed in Return of the Jedi. Sigh, I've always known the decision to to take the meaning of Darth Vader's name quite literally was one made after the release of Star Wars. People thought I was delusional and a nutjob for insisting so ... and I was very glad to finally be vindicated among Star Wars fans when the truth became generally known upon release of the Empire of Dreams documentary.


But in 1980, the reveal was really kinda fun.


For that one show.



And for that one day.

.
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Anchorhead and Obi Jeewhyen please keep posting cause as much as I love the OT, I always appreciate fans who just love Star Wars from 1977, and never bought into the larger story from day one. I really think it is the characters of Luke, Leia, and Han that made me an OT fan, not the way Lucas went with the story, cause there is nothing that beats the Original SW.

Just a warning for you guys, do not post at TFn, those people will come at you with pitchforks for only liking the Original SW. That is the only SW website that frowns upon the only SW movie that is actually called Star Wars. It is the ultimate irony.
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Heheh, except they will insist on calling it "A New Hope."





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Originally posted by: CO
Just a warning for you guys, do not post at TFn, those people will come at you with pitchforks for only liking the Original SW.

Those people are of no concern to me. They don't get to decide for me how I'll refer to Star Wars, which version of the story I must accept, or how many of the films I have to see.

I alone control what Star Wars is to me. Not Lucas, not 20th Century Fox, not McCallum, and most certainly - not a bunch of strangers on the internet.

This is the only non-motorcycle-related board I ever really post on. I post here because it's made up of relatively like-minded individuals. People that are intelligent, witty, and informed. People that can think for themselves. Besides, I don't even know what TFn is.

My Star Wars questions and interests are answered on this board.

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Heheh, except they will insist on calling it "A New Hope."


And there's no PT and OT, it's just "the Star Wars saga".
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Besides, I don't even know what TFn is.


theforce.net

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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That seems familiar. I may have stumbled onto it years ago.
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Originally posted by: CO
Anchorhead and Obi Jeewhyen please keep posting cause as much as I love the OT, I always appreciate fans who just love Star Wars from 1977, and never bought into the larger story from day one. I really think it is the characters of Luke, Leia, and Han that made me an OT fan, not the way Lucas went with the story, cause there is nothing that beats the Original SW.
I'm with Anchorhead in a lot of ways, in that Star Wars is and has always been my favorite film, as well as the one that really matters to me. Had Empire and Jedi never happened, I would still be as big a fan as I am now (perhaps bigger, even?). Though I do really like Empire, and a certain amount of Jedi, nothing stirs my imagination and sense of adventure like the original Star Wars does. All of what makes the story great is encompassed in that one film.

I do make some allowances for the Star Wars Holiday Special, horrifying as it is, since that is in some ways an extension (or perhaps more like a hangnail?) of the original Star Wars film.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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My memories of first seeing Empire go something like this...

...I was six...

...I'd never seen Star Wars when it first came out (in fact it would be a couple of years after Empire that I would) but I had loads of Star Wars figures and vehicles...

...I bugged and bugged my dad for weeks to take me to see it, and when the Schoolastic print of Empire Strikes Back came out (with the fold out Darth Vader poster!!!!!!) I bugged and bugged him even more...

...one day after tea he came in and said "Look what I've found, two tickets for The Empire Strikes Back - who could I take???"...

..."Take me! Take me! Dad take me!!!"...

...So we went to the Astra (local flea pit). I remember the short film before Empire - I think it was called The Black Angel (anyone remember it? anyone know if it's downloadable?) - Iremember thinking "Wow this is great"...

...the last thing I remember of that night is something about snow, just as I fell asleep about 25 minutes into the main feature...

...idiot...solo
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One of the most interesting things about Empire was the playground discussions about the meaning of Luke's face inside the Vader mask during the cave scene. It was like Fellini for kids. Has to be the first and last time you'll ever see 3rd graders discussing symbolism in a movie.
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Well, I wasn't born till ten years after Star Wars came out, so I really missed the first phenominon...

In fact, I could have cared less about Star Wars for most of my life before 1997 based on the reasoning that Star Trek, (I thought) was boring, so, logically, so Star Wars must be also. My dad watched Star Trek all the time, and it was way over my head. I assumed all science fiction was like this.

THis changed in 1997 when I saw the SE in theaters. After episode four I was IMMEDIATELY hooked on the universe, and eagerly waited (mercifully less than three years) for the sequel.

Unfortuantely, thanks to my mom, my brother was able to guess that Darth Vader was Luke's father (an idea that was totally foreign to me after watching the first film)... So I don't really know what my reaction would have been had I scene it in the theatre.

Still, when I foudn out, it was quite a rush. I just wish I hadn't.

4

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But there nothing like the era when the OT first came out. The toys, the conversations, the tv specials, the books. I don't think adults around time would fully understand it. I think you had to be a kid around the time to fully appreciate the OT era. The was when Lucas was viewed a genious and hero to us Star Wars fan. Then, He betrayed and murdered the OT. One thing I did learn when the SE came into the movie threaters was how watching a movie on a TV even a big screen TV nothing compared to watching a movie on the big screen.

Between Empire and Jedi, I was sure the Vader was lying, because why would Ben possible lie? It still really was never successfully explained. So, I got into quite a few arguements about it. It is a good think kids in grade school aren't allowed to bet. One thing that always puzzles me is why I don't remember any talk about who the other the that Yoda spoke of to Ben in Empire. The was another thing that really threw me when I firsted watched Jedi was the revel of Leia as Luke's sister.
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I was a gullable kid so I never even thought that Vader could be lying to Luke. I remember being surprised and a little confused.
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For me it was kind of a bigger surprise to me that Vader was confirmed to be Luke's father in ROTJ. That, combined with the Unlce Fester face behind the mask kind of made Jedi a downer for me. I enjoyed the movie, but remember feeling really disappointed in the end. Honestly, I didn't want to know who Vader really was. I didn't want to see the face beneath the mask. He was totally de-mystified for me...no longer the badass that the Vader we all know and love, truly is.