Assorted Questions regarding the preservation of Magic School Bus (How do you know the video format a kids show originates in?)

Hello.

There was a cartoon I watched when I was a child (Magic School Bus). It was my favorite show in those years, and I wasn't the only kid who liked it. It has been dubbed in several languages across the globe, and released on both vhs and dvd.

I am curious as to whether the pal dvd's are actual pal transfers, with the slightly higher resolution that it entails, or up conversions from an ntsc source. In addition, was the original source videotape or film of some kind? Most importantly what was the original source?

I know these questions may seem strange coming from an adult that has grown out of kid shows, and most people on these forums probably don't care about an educational cartoon from the 90s, let alone the technical specifications of its editing and post production; but I am curious, and have been curious for a couple months now.

I have tried contacting Nelvana, the company that produced the show, but the only email address I could find is nelvana_webmaster@corusent.com, which I have contacted:

from:	Danfun64 . <danfun***@*****.com>
to:	nelvana_webmaster@corusent.com
date:	Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 6:42 PM
subject:	Nelvana's Real Email Address.
mailed-by:	*****.com

I have a question on the production on one of Nelvana's shows, but all I could find is a canadian phone number (I live in the US) ,a twitter link, and snail mail (also to Canada). Is there a way I can actually contact Nelvana, or is this the companies real email address?

I have not gotten any response from the webmaster. What do you think I should do next?

I have sent my real questions to nelvana_webmaster@corusent.com, along with scholastic's email form and htkang@hanho.co.kr (listed as the email address for the production department Hanho Heung-Up, which Wikipedia states has animated the show). Hopefully I can get some answers...

Ahh, an illogical crossover fic containing all sorts of franchices which have very little connection to each other, in addition to lots of distracting pictures.

Basically, TL:DR

To be fair though, you did say that you wrote it in the 6th grade. If you still write fanfiction, it is probably more professional and readable now :P

I'm not saying crossover fic is bad. In fact, I was thinking of writing a script-fic crossover myself involving Magic School Bus and Doctor Who. (I posted the first "episode" a couple months ago. It was to be a finale to MSB, leading to a series fic involving a regenerated Frizzle doing her best to avoid the Time War but getting pulled in anyway. I removed it because 1. I felt the quality was poor. 2. It had the framing device of a Lost Episode Creepypasta, which I feel isn't really necessary. 3. I want to start from scratch. 4. I need to rewatch and watch those shows (respectively) so that it can be more accurate with both franchises. 5. By making it a script fic instead of prose, I could include details that I couldn't otherwise without making things spoilers.)

Back on-topic. I haven't gotten a reply from any of the three groups yet.

I just wanted to note that I haven't got a response from anybody yet. Either nobody knows, nobody cares, nobody thinks the emails are worth reading or responding to, or nobody's home because of the holidays. I'm not giving up yet though ;)

I can tell you that whatever masters are used for the home video/streaming releases probably come direct from digibetas. There's all sorts of analog video noise that comes from old masters like that, ie rainbowing etc., present in the show.

Given that, I would not be surprised if the PAL masters are just converted NTSC ones.

No, I have not gotten any replies yet.

Here is information of every US version I am aware of and have any information on.

PBS Version (Very rare, but the only way to watch the live action Halloween compilation movie and the 60 minute version of Holiday Special [The second one may not exist, I only found info on it from Wikipedia, which admits that the info needs citations]. Uncut, containing the full opening and closing, along with "Producer Says" segment. Contains opening and closing PBS "Funding for this program..." segment. May or may not have PBS Kids indent at the end)

Kidvision VHS /Warner Home Video VHS/DVD Version (Common. Uncut, containing the full opening and closing, along with "Producer Says" segment. Contains closing PBS "Funding for this program..." segment. May or may not contain an ad for the original books. Ends with the Kidvision or Warner Home Video logo, depending on what you're watching)

Fox Kids Version (Very rare. Opening and Closing are shortened, and "Producer Says" segment is cut)

TLC/Discovery Kids Version (Common on sites like YouTube. Opening is uncut, but Closing is shortened and the "Producer Says" segment is cut. When the show aired on these networks, it was always preceded by a "Ready Set Learn"/"The Taz Show" short, which may or may not be intact in online copies.)

Discovery Education Version (Rare, unless you have lots of money to fork, but infrequently some episodes of this version appear on the internet. Uncut, containing the full opening and closing, along with "Producer Says" segment. Episodes (at least the free one used as a teaser) start with a head leader containing basic information on the episode, followed by a 10 second countdown.

If you can get anything important out of this, let me know.

New Video Group DVD/Netflix Version (Common. [Mostly] Uncut, containing the full opening and closing, along with "Producer Says" segment.The reason I say "mostly" is because the Nelvana logo at the end is plastered.)

Qubo Version (Rare on the internet, as far as I know. Opening and Closing are shortened, and "Producer Says" segment is cut. May or may not be the same transfer as the Fox Kids version, and may or may not have the plastered Nelvana logo. I'm not sure myself)

This only covers versions that aired on the US. I don't know the technical differences between the transfers that appeared on other countries, but I do know that some of them localize the title card and theme music to their language [The italian version is especially notable, as it pretty much replaces the whole opening with a much longer one], and some of them plaster the Nelvana logo with the same logo used in the New Video Group version. I'm probably the only person interested in these technical details, but if I am not the only one, here it is! Enjoy!

That fanfic is quite a bit more detailed than mine. My idea was that each time the Friz gets her class into the schoolbus, it emits a cloud of psychedelics through the ventilation system and she leads the class through a tripped-out educational program through hypnotic suggestion. Your story is more fun though.

I bet you never expected this thread to come back :P

I have received a response from Scholastic

from:	Black, Eric <EBlack@scholastic.com>
to:	"danfun***@*****.com" <danfun***@*****.com>
date:	Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:54 PM
subject:	FW: The Production of Magic School Bus [Email: 141218-000278] [<AX3816841>]
mailed-by:	scholastic.com

Hi Dan,

I"m assuming Dan is your name from your email address. Sorry if that is inaccurate!  My name is Eric Black. I am the Director of Production and Technical Operations for Scholastic Media, so your question has been forwarded on to me.

Thanks for your questions! It's great to see people excited about our shows and curious about the production and post production process. Some of your questions are tricky to answer, because the show originated in 1994, few of the people involved in the production are available and the paperwork (literally on paper) is either gone or in deep storage.  But I'll do my best!

The show originated on 35MM film, but from what I can gather, the film was then transferred to video and the editing all happened with video. I assume that video was mastered as NTSC, since the production was North American. The PAL versions would then have been conversions from the NTSC masters.

I have actually been investigating the possibility of full HD remastering from the source film, but it would be a very expensive process, and I'm not sure it would pay for itself, let alone make a profit. Past up converts to HD that we made from the SD video masters actually look decent and the stretch to 16:9 isn't horrible with animation, but I've had samples made with newer technology makes a really nice 16:9. We could potentially use that technology and color correction and other enhancements to digitally remaster without going back to the original film. 

Thanks again for your interest! Feel free to ask any follow up questions you may have.

Best,

Eric

---------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Black
Director, Production & Technical Operations
Scholastic Media
524 Broadway, 5th Floor
New York, NY 10012

phone: 212-389-3868

I'm not sure what to make of this response. What do you think?

"'reassembling' hd versions from the film" is what Star Trek: The Next Generation did with its blu-ray release, and it looks all the better for it.

Here is the reply I will give to him. I haven't emailed it yet, but I doubt he looks at this website. Besides, I would like you guys to review the message for content. In the message, do I come off as rude or condescending?

Hello Mr. Black.

Some of what you said in your email troubled me. First of all, what do you mean by stretching into 16:9? Did you really mean "stretch", or did you mean cropping to 16:9, or pillarboxing the 4:3 footage? Second, and more importantly, are you really going to just upscale the old footage instead of going straight to the 35mm source? I hope not. Assuming the best, all you would get from the unconversion is less video compression, as the size and codec of a Blu-Ray disc allow more detail to be retained than a DVD transfer. Even then, you wouldn't get any more detail out of the footage, all you would do is make it bigger. Only by going through the 35mm raw footage and creating a new 1080p or even 4k transfer from scratch would a Blu-Ray release be worth it.

Imagine that you have a blu-ray and a vhs of the same movie. Assume that both are the best that they can look and sound. Now imagine you digitize the vhs recording. You upscale the vhs. Note that no matter what you do, the vhs would never look as good as the movies DVD, let along a high definition blu-ray. I also want you to consider the fact that some reviewers of recent Magic School Bus dvd sets state that they think the quality isn't that good to begin with, I don't think upscaling the show and putting those upscales on blu-ray would be wise. You may point to the first four seasons of the new version of Doctor Who, but they have the excuse of being recorded in standard definition to begin with. As you say that the raw footage for The Magic School Bus is from 35mm film, and didn't originate from tape, that excuse doesn't work.

Basically, if you can't make a new remaster from the raw footage, you shouldn't release the series on blu-ray. I'm not trying to be mean, and if I come off that way I apologize. I also understand that you might not have the money to make a new master, and there is nothing wrong with that, but if all you are going to do is upscale the footage, releasing the series on blu-ray is not worth it.

What's the difference?

Don't both phrases mean the same thing?

Ahh, retracing. Haven't thought of that. Are you allowed to name this script?

Then again, isn't retracing one of the reasons the recommended animated disney thread exists, to avoid it?

The best method for detail is a ST TNG bluray style remaster. However, if, like TNG, some clips are missing from the film footage, retracing may or may not be preferable to upscaling those parts.

What a poor name for a website. At first I thought you were linking me to a shock site. It's a good thing the site is genuine.

I noticed that the websites states that the script "is not intended to be used on footage for archival purposes". What do you make of that?

I still haven't sent a response to him yet. Since you mentioned retracing and other types of cleanup which I haven't considered, I decided to change the message. Can you guys tell me if there is anything else I should do before I send?

Hello Mr. Black.

Some of what you said in your email troubled me. First of all, what do you mean by stretching into 16:9? Did you really mean "stretch", or did you mean cropping to 16:9, or pillarboxing the 4:3 footage? Second, and more importantly, are you really going to just upscale the old footage instead of going straight to the 35mm source? If so, what exactly would you do with that footage? Would you just do minor cleanups, or would you use a program to retrace the drawings, or would you use something like what is available at http://www.l33tmeatwad.com/anime-upscale ? No, it's not a shock site, and it isn't my script. Assuming the best, you might get the footage to look a little better than the original SD transfer, but you wouldn't get any more real detail out of the footage. Only by going through the 35mm raw footage and creating a new 1080p or even 4k transfer from scratch would a Blu-Ray release be worth it.

Imagine that you have a blu-ray and a vhs of the same movie. Assume that both are the best that they can look and sound. Now imagine you digitize the vhs recording. You upscale the vhs. Note that no matter what you do, the vhs would never look as good as the movie's DVD, let along a high definition blu-ray. I also want you to consider the fact that some reviewers of recent Magic School Bus dvd sets state that they think the video and audio quality isn't that good to begin with, I don't think upscaling the show and putting those upscales on blu-ray would be wise.

Basically, if you can't make a new remaster from the raw footage, you shouldn't release the series on blu-ray. I'm not trying to be mean, and if I come off that way I apologize. I also understand that you might not have the money to make a new master, and there is nothing wrong with that, but if all you are going to do is upscale the footage or use scripts to make it look marginally better, releasing the series on blu-ray wouldn't be worth it. If someone wanted to, he or she could take the dvd footage and clean it up themselves. Only you guys have the raw 35mm footage, so if possible, I suggest that you make use of it.

*insert closing greeting here*

Regards,

*insert variation of my first name or my username here*

What do you think I should use for a closing greeting, or my name? Should I use Danny (My IRL nickname), Daniel (My real first name), Dan (what he referred to me as), or Danfun*** (that is, the variation of numbers that appears on my email address)?