Ask the non-member of all churches AKA Interrogate the atheist — Page 2

I have no problem with theistic evolution or, as I prefer to call it, evolutionary creationism. The idea that God designed the universe to allow life to come into existence through natural evolution isn't only valid in my eyes, but beautiful as well.

Intelligent Design, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother kettle of fish altogether. While it superficially resembles theistic evolution/evolutionary creationism, it posits that certain biological features COULD NOT have come into existence through natural evolution and COULD ONLY have been designed by an intelligent entity. That is just pure "god-of-the-gaps" pseudoscience without any basis in fact.

dclarkg said:

darth_ender said:

This could be retitled "Ask the Weak Atheist Anything," and then we would have a real good use for it.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Weak-Atheist-Thread/topic/14351/

Silly joke where I probably am the only one who laughed.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Post Praetorian said:

Are you happy, as an atheist? Does it content you to so be?

I am extremely glad to have been raised atheist.  Our minds and our ability to reason and think for ourselves is an incredible gift, and a lot of religion seems to be about stifling critical inquiry and just accepting "truth" without question.  That to me is a waste of a great gift.

^This is probably among the most ignorant, yet most frequent beliefs of atheists today.  Many of the greatest minds in history have been religious, and the greatest discoveries and theories developed by the pious.  I'd venture to say without shame, regardless of how arrogant it sounds, that I have a greater capacity to reason than most of this forum here.  Am I the most intelligent?  Likely not.  Am I the most learned?  Assuredly not.  But I have delved into study and self-examination, into philosophy and refinement of understanding like no one I've met.  I am willing to refine my theories, to question my beliefs, to examine different angles, and to entertain and acceptable seemingly contradicting possibilities with equal validity better than anyone I know.  I consider my mind very gifted in this regard, and I find the snobbishness of today's Google atheists so tiresome aggravating that I can hardly describe it.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Religion/topic/13159/page/17/

DuracellEnergizer said:

I have no problem with theistic evolution or, as I prefer to call it, evolutionary creationism. The idea that God designed the universe to allow life to come into existence through natural evolution isn't only valid in my eyes, but beautiful as well.

Intelligent Design, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother kettle of fish altogether. While it superficially resembles theistic evolution/evolutionary creationism, it posits that certain biological features COULD NOT have come into existence through natural evolution and COULD ONLY have been designed by an intelligent entity. That is just pure "god-of-the-gaps" pseudoscience without any basis in fact.

 My mistake. I've always assumed they were the same thing.

What a dumb black-and-white survey question.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

darth_ender said:

This is probably among the most ignorant, yet most frequent beliefs of atheists today.  Many of the greatest minds in history have been religious, and the greatest discoveries and theories developed by the pious.  I'd venture to say without shame, regardless of how arrogant it sounds, that I have a greater capacity to reason than most of this forum here.  Am I the most intelligent?  Likely not.  Am I the most learned?  Assuredly not.  But I have delved into study and self-examination, into philosophy and refinement of understanding like no one I've met.  I am willing to refine my theories, to question my beliefs, to examine different angles, and to entertain and acceptable seemingly contradicting possibilities with equal validity better than anyone I know.  I consider my mind very gifted in this regard, and I find the snobbishness of today's Google atheists so tiresome  and aggravating that I can hardly describe it.

 I didn't say that people who are religious cannot do those things.  I just consider religion a hinderance to those things.  Kudos for those today and throughout history who have.  I just think that a lot more of such thought and reflection might have happened without religion.

 Amazingly, I'm surprised at the narrow-mindedness of so many atheists I've met.  It seems that many have already concluded that their correctness is a foregone conclusion and make no further effort to try and challenge their own worldview.

You atheists and theists are two sides of the same coin.

You atheists and theists are two sides of the same coin.

JEDIT: One post for each side.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If this were strictly true, then Jews/Christians would still believe the Earth is flat and at the centre of the universe, the Hindus would believe the Earth is supported on the backs of elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle, etc.

 Not sure about that... does the Bible actually mandate a flat earth?

 Actually the bible implies multiple times that the earth is round.

The only times it says otherwise is either in poetry (not in actual description), and the other one people go to is in Revelation when it says angels are standing at the four corners.  But if you read the surrounding verses it becomes clear that it actually refers to the four cardinal directions of N,S,E,W.

In Job it says the earth is suspended over empty space.  Isaiah 40:22 says "He sits on his throne above the CIRCLE of the earth"

Also in Luke 17 around verse 30 it implies that where it is dark at one time in another place it is light at the same time, which could not happen if the earth is flat.  There are others.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

By the way, just because I might disagree with someone doesn't mean I don't necessarily think they are smart.

Well then! ;)

EDIT: Darn, I misread that...

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Possessed said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If this were strictly true, then Jews/Christians would still believe the Earth is flat and at the centre of the universe, the Hindus would believe the Earth is supported on the backs of elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle, etc.

 Not sure about that... does the Bible actually mandate a flat earth?

 Actually the bible implies multiple times that the earth is round.

 Yeah that's what I thought.  Thanks for the references.

Here's an article -- written from a Christian perspective, I might add -- which casts serious doubts on those claims.

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2001/PSCF9-01Schneider.html

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Possessed said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If this were strictly true, then Jews/Christians would still believe the Earth is flat and at the centre of the universe, the Hindus would believe the Earth is supported on the backs of elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle, etc.

 Not sure about that... does the Bible actually mandate a flat earth?

 Actually the bible implies multiple times that the earth is round.

 Yeah that's what I thought.  Thanks for the references.

 No problem.  And actually here's another one on a somewhat similar train of thought:

Somewhere in Genesis, not sure where, it mentions all the continents being together as one mass of land that then separates.  The idea we now call pangea.  (sp?)  I always found that interesting, especially seeing as they didn't exactly have globes that they could look at and go "Hey, they fit together like a puzzle" back then.  Not exactly concrete proof of divine insight, but worth noting nonetheless.

Plus in genesis it mentions light and dark on the earth being separate, which also implies a sphere.  And that's how it looks when earth is viewed from outer space.

My personal opinion is that all gods are real but not what we commonly think they are.  I hate to use the term "aliens" because that makes me sound like a nut, but basically I believe aliens have influenced our creation and development, and have manifested themselves as "gods" to give us something tangible to understand.

To me this explains the circle vs sphere thing.  The bible talks about people being taken straight to the heavens (more than just Jesus, it happens at least two other times.  One to Elijah, and another to somebody else that I can't remember their name).  So perhaps the writers viewed the earth from space in some manner, and had no knowledge of what spheres and the like and simply described it as a circle because that's what it appeared to be to them.