Warbler said:
What makes us great? The American ideal that all people should be free, equal, have inalienable rights(including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), that rights can not be taken away without due process, that we elect our leaders, that the government belongs to and works for the people and not the other way around. This is what makes us great. Our nation and the way it began, inspired and inspires countless countries and people to strive for freedom and equality. Because of how great of nation is, countless people from around the globe left their native country to come here, seeking freedom and equality. some one on here said immigration is a bad thing. Our country is built on immigration.
Let me tell you this. I have travelled a lot around Europe and nowhere I have seen things as they are in USA. For example in most of the areas of the large cities you cannot feel safe because you are white. People look at you like you don't belong there. Never I have seen such a contrast between poor and rich (maybe in South Africa). Such misery in general and hostile society. The America you described only exists in Hollywood films.
There no place or street in my country that I would not feel safe to go to.
真実
TV's Frink said:
imperialscum said:
I am speaking this in general. I do not see any benefit in immigration what so ever (unless it is a case of a few expert individuals). I think multiculturalism is bad and opposes the human nature and is bound to cause problems. I just do not understand why would a gradual destruction of your nation's culture be a good idea.
Racist.
I just hate ignorant people who use words they do not know what they mean...
NOTHING in my post indicated any racism. I do not mind what race people who immigrate are, as long as they assimilate.
真実
imperialscum said:
I do not mind what race people who immigrate are, as long as they assimilate.
and it is in your statement where the misunderstanding is about Muslim culture, and other cultures... It really is that simple
we want them to be more like us and they want us to be more like them..
@imp: Fine. Culturalist. Either way, you sure sound like an asshole.
I really would like to see if Frink had the same POV if he came to live in London for a couple of years? Now THAT would be interesting.
Meaning what?
Meaning that if you were to experience the Muslim and immigration problem in London with your own eyes and live within it for years you wouldn't be so trigger happy to label someone as a racist for questioning it.
He said "in general." And what he said about being white in a big US city was racist and ignorant.
Ronster said:
imperialscum said:
I do not mind what race people who immigrate are, as long as they assimilate.
and it is in your statement where the misunderstanding is about Muslim culture, and other cultures... It really is that simple
we want them to be more like us and they want us to be more like them..
We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.
TV's Frink said:
imperialscum said:
I am speaking this in general. I do not see any benefit in immigration what so ever (unless it is a case of a few expert individuals). I think multiculturalism is bad and opposes the human nature and is bound to cause problems. I just do not understand why would a gradual destruction of your nation's culture be a good idea.
Racist.
Where was being 'white' or 'America' mentioned in the quote you replied to?
imperialscum said:
Let me tell you this. I have travelled a lot around Europe and nowhere I have seen things as they are in USA. For example in most of the areas of the large cities you cannot feel safe because you are white. People look at you like you don't belong there. Never I have seen such a contrast between poor and rich (maybe in South Africa). Such misery in general and hostile society. The America you described only exists in Hollywood films.
There no place or street in my country that I would not feel safe to go to (except for maybe a few gypsy cramp).
I think a lot of this has to do with you being an outsider in an unfamiliar place.
Not feeling safe in most areas of larger cities because you are white? What?! I'm white and have spent a good deal of time in large cities in the U.S. and have never really felt particularly threatened in general. All big cities have parts of town that aren't particularly safe at night, this isn't just the case in the U.S.
Such misery in general and hostile society? What the hell kind of slum ghettos or prisons were you visiting while you were here? Sure, contrast between rich and poor. I live in a very cheap crummy apartment that isn't exactly in one of the best parts of town, and I love the hell out of it (though I don't currently live in a particularly large city at the moment, population 182,000, I get the distinct feeling you wouldn't feel very safe in my neighborhood on account of your whiteness). My neighbors are generally happy and friendly people too. I went with a friend house sitting a few months ago and found myself in a lavish mansion. Yeah, there is a big contrast there. The lifestyles of the people my friend was house sitting for and the lifestyle my friend and I hold are polar opposites. While we don't have excess money to waste on in ground swimming pools in our backyards or have pretentious European sports cars in our garages, we're clothed, fed, paying rent, happy, and living very comfortable lives.
When I lived in Detroit I rented a place in a slummy part of town, and I felt much the same way (though the reverse racism was pretty alienating at times), my neighbors were awesome, friendly, and very accepting of me once they got to know me. My neighbors and I weren't living in luxury there, but we had full tummies, cable television, roofs over our heads, and probably laughed and smiled more often than those yuppies living over in the ritzy suburb of Birmingham.
You realize that by saying the America Warbler described only exists in Hollywood films, you're essentially making the bold claim that you know what the United States is really like better than someone who has lived here his whole life, based on the fact that you've dropped by for a visit. Hopefully everyone can see how very silly that is. That is exactly like me trying to tell Hey, It's Me and the other English users here that their perception of England is all wrong based on my extended stays in London.
Hey, it's me. said:
TV's Frink said:
imperialscum said:
I am speaking this in general. I do not see any benefit in immigration what so ever (unless it is a case of a few expert individuals). I think multiculturalism is bad and opposes the human nature and is bound to cause problems. I just do not understand why would a gradual destruction of your nation's culture be a good idea.
Racist.
Where was being 'white' or 'America' mentioned in the quote you replied to?
It was in a subsequent post. I already revised my comment regarding that specific post. Please go back and read the full exchange.
CP3S said:
imperialscum said:
Let me tell you this. I have travelled a lot around Europe and nowhere I have seen things as they are in USA. For example in most of the areas of the large cities you cannot feel safe because you are white. People look at you like you don't belong there. Never I have seen such a contrast between poor and rich (maybe in South Africa). Such misery in general and hostile society. The America you described only exists in Hollywood films.
There no place or street in my country that I would not feel safe to go to (except for maybe a few gypsy cramp).
I think a lot of this has to do with you being an outsider in an unfamiliar place.
Not feeling safe in most areas of larger cities because you are white? What?! I'm white and have spent a good deal of time in large cities in the U.S. and have never really felt particularly threatened in general. All big cities have parts of town that aren't particularly safe at night, this isn't just the case in the U.S.
Such misery in general and hostile society? What the hell kind of slum ghettos or prisons were you visiting while you were here? Sure, contrast between rich and poor. I live in a very cheap crummy apartment that isn't exactly in one of the best parts of town, and I love the hell out of it (though I don't currently live in a particularly large city at the moment, population 182,000, I get the distinct feeling you wouldn't feel very safe in my neighborhood on account of your whiteness). My neighbors are generally happy and friendly people too. I went with a friend house sitting a few months ago and found myself in a lavish mansion. Yeah, there is a big contrast there. The lifestyles of the people my friend was house sitting for and the lifestyle my friend and I hold are polar opposites. While we don't have excess money to waste on in ground swimming pools in our backyards or have pretentious European sports cars in our garages, we're clothed, fed, happy, and living very comfortable lives.
When I lived in Detroit I rented a place in a slummy part of town, and I felt much the same way (though the reverse racism was pretty alienating at times), my neighbors were awesome, friendly, and very accepting of me once they got to know me. Me and my neighbors weren't living in luxury there, but we had full tummies, cable television, roofs over our heads, and probably laughed and smiled more than those yuppies living over in the ritzy suburb of Royal Oak.
You realize that by saying the America Warbler described only exists in Hollywood films, you're essentially making the bold claim that you know what the United States is really like better than someone who has lived here his whole life, based on the fact that you've dropped by for a visit. Hopefully everyone can see how very silly that is. That is exactly like me trying to tell Hey, It's Me and the other English users here that their perception of England is all wrong based on my extended stays in London.
This is what I was getting at.
CP3S said:
The United States is a big place, and it is very spread out. You could fit the land mass of the entire U.K. into the U.S. thirty-seven times. You could take every populated portion of the U.K. (that is all cities, towns, and settlements), and squeeze them into the state of Oregon.
And yet the population of Oregon is just shy of 4 million and the population of the UK is just shy of 63 million.
That makes for a much more tangled mass of fibres and much more power demand per square inch of land.
Are you really saying we are better at infrastructure engineering than the US?
I don't thinks so, not now, maybe a century ago but you should see the mess left whenever someone wants to change a cable.
If you treated each state as a small country you could using a modular approach install a better public transport system than any European country serving the whole of the United State, because in large areas you would be starting from scratch. Not having to fill in or dig around structures left over from Roman times.
You know I believe you put some men on the moon on more than one occasion *whispers* you can do it.
Hey, it's me. said:
Ronster said:
imperialscum said:
I do not mind what race people who immigrate are, as long as they assimilate.
and it is in your statement where the misunderstanding is about Muslim culture, and other cultures... It really is that simple
we want them to be more like us and they want us to be more like them..
We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.
The only place I felt instantly intimidated in was Blaenau Ffestiniog and that's because I have a mostly RP accent and the Welsh assumed I was English.
I have never felt in any of my travels worried because my skin is pale.
Though there was that one time on Zolfa-Thura where I felt a bit out of place because my face wasn't covered in cactus like spines.
Bingowings said:
CP3S said:
The United States is a big place, and it is very spread out. You could fit the land mass of the entire U.K. into the U.S. thirty-seven times. You could take every populated portion of the U.K. (that is all cities, towns, and settlements), and squeeze them into the state of Oregon.
And yet the population of Oregon is just shy of 4 million and the population of the UK is just shy of 63 million.
That makes for a much more tangled mass of fibres and much more power demand per square inch of land.
Are you really saying we are better at infrastructure engineering than the US?
I don't thinks so, not now, maybe a century ago but you should see the mess left whenever someone wants to change a cable.
If you treated each state as a small country you could using a modular approach install a better public transport system than any European country serving the whole of the United State, because in large areas you would be starting from scratch. Not having to fill in or dig around structures left over from Roman times.
You know I believe you put some men on the moon on more than one occasion *whispers* you can do it.
The whole of Americas population can be made up statistically of 4 European countries. Russia, UK, Germany and France. Europe is far more densely populated and culturally diverse than America is, or ever will be.
Oh don't be silly.
Damn, you Brits are a defensive bunch.
How dare you sir!
Bingowings said:
CP3S said:
The United States is a big place, and it is very spread out. You could fit the land mass of the entire U.K. into the U.S. thirty-seven times. You could take every populated portion of the U.K. (that is all cities, towns, and settlements), and squeeze them into the state of Oregon.
And yet the population of Oregon is just shy of 4 million and the population of the UK is just shy of 63 million.
That makes for a much more tangled mass of fibres and much more power demand per square inch of land.
Are you really saying we are better at infrastructure engineering than the US?
No. What I am trying to say is that you have a lot of people densely packed into a small amount of space, while we have a ridiculously vast amount of space sparsely populated by people. Long stretches of nothing expand for hundreds of miles between major cities, long stretches of nothing covered in rivers, lakes, mountains, deserts, and forests.
Yeah, Bingo, we put men on the moon, and I am sure if we really wanted to we could make an impressive nation wide public transit system. The point is, it is a whole lot of effort, resources, expense, etc. and it still wouldn't be very useful to us, because we are spread out into all sorts of little nooks and crannies across a vast area of space.
I'm not sure why my points about public transportation not working as well in the U.S. is getting seemingly defensive comments from Hey, It's Me regarding Europe being more diverse than we'll ever be (of course a continent filled with numerous countries is going to be more diverse than a single country), and contrasting our population size to Europe's.
That last one reenforces exactly what I am trying to say. Lots of space, few people. Why build a complex transit system when roads and cars will do the trick? The way our country was laid out, automobiles are essential.
If you treated each state as a small country you could using a modular approach install a better public transport system than any European country serving the whole of the United State, because in large areas you would be starting from scratch. Not having to fill in or dig around structures left over from Roman times.
But why? The whole thing would make no sense. And we don't have a lot of flat land like many parts of Europe, we have to blast through or go around mountains and other obstacles that are much more challenging than left over ruins of prior civilizations.
Apologies but i was still a bit miffed after Warblers soapbox outburst lol
I'm getting the 'integrated public transport system not currently seen as necessary' part but we here are sitting on thousands of years of coal which we probably will never burn (I'm pretty sure there is a safe way to do it if someone applied themselves to the problem but that's a separate though probably related issue).
One of the reasons we don't (Thatcher occupies a large number of the other reasons) is because the generally received opinion is against the burning of fossil fuels, what with it being a pollutant contributing to the levels of carbon in the atmosphere which is argued strongly to be the cause of human influenced climate change.
It wasn't nationally convenient to close all the mines and start switching off the power stations (though Thatcher saw certain benefits) but it was argued to be the right thing to do. Switching from steam powered to electric/diesel power locomotives was a similar situation (the stream trains were as fast if not faster up until recently).
So while a large number may not see it as necessary it could be argued to be the right thing to do and as Warb reminds us the USA's default setting is to strive to do the right thing even if it sometimes fails.
Liberated from the black stuff the USA could have a better foreign policy and individuals will pay less for moving from one place to another. They would be able to tap almost limitless almost pollutant free energy and fly hot air balloons into space.
Bingowings said:
So while a large number may not see it as necessary it could be argued to be the right thing to do and as Warb reminds us the USA's default setting is to strive to do the right thing even if it sometimes fails.
Liberated from the black stuff the USA could have a better foreign policy and individuals will pay less for moving from one place to another. They would be able to tap almost limitless almost pollutant free energy and fly hot air balloons into space.
Okay, but as I've already explained, even an elaborate and extensive public transportation system wouldn't free us from the black stuff, and it would make us pay more for moving from one place to another.
I don't know why I am carrying on this conversation. You make very brilliant points sometimes, but you typically rely on whimsy for your arguments, and you keep repeating the same things in different ways even though I have already addressed them.
Hey, it's me. said:
We don't want them to be more like us. We want them to understand and respect our culture and way of life if they choose to live here. Not throw their way of life from a Stone Age shithole of a country in our faces and say 'this is us, deal with it or fuck off.' That's UTTERLY disrespectful to the common people of the country that has provided you with free healthcare, housing, and free education for your children. It really is THAT simple.
Cairo
Casablanca
Tehran
And you are aware there are immigrants that have jobs and pay taxes right?