Are Muslims really trying to take over, or are some people just suffering from Islamaphobia?

This is a very hot topic in Europe at the moment (and some parts of America I understand) Is this just paranoia, or is there really a hidden agenda?

They better get in line :p

Put this in my original question but got the URL wrong. Updated.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=vnJBW49afzg

*types current action between asterisks*

Have no idea what your trying to say Bingo 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo

^You can tell he's new around here.

Yep. Still wet behind the ears I'm afraid.

Bingowings said:

^You can tell he's new around here.

You mean he's a...?

like every group of people in the world,  some are trying to take over but most are not.

My father recently told me of a book he had read called LONDONISTAN and recommended it to me. Here are some reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Melanie-Phillips/product-reviews/1594031444

Britain is a very densely populated area so if you get a group of people who wear the same stuff together and put a different looking person in amongst them it would look like a person overwhelmed by an invasion whoever the group was.

I dare say if you sent a camera crew into a march of Combat 18 followers you wouldn't be able to get a burqa wearing woman to walk through them. But if you could it would resemble the Luton film but paint a different picture.

It's simple propaganda and it works any way you want to cut it.

Irony equals

what the heck do you mean it doesn't matter if most members of a group don't want to take over the world or install Islamic law everywhere???

You want us to treat them like they are all nuts, hellbent on world domination???   It is just not right to treat all Muslims like that, when all Muslims are not like that.    Would you want all non whites to treat all whites like they are members of the KKK???

Various denominations of Christianity (something that largely dominates American politics), Scientology, and certain flavours of hard atheism have global proselytising ambitions.

As do many extreme economic models like global consumerist corporatism.

Judaism ultimately does too (once the Messianic age kicks in) and that religion shaped the world we live in both via the horrors of the Hitler and Stalin's reactions to it and the current situation in the Middle East.

One hopes that all these various groups and ideologies largely cancel each other out leading to stability.

There will never be peaceful segregation between communities while one community chooses to shut themselves off from everyone else and refuse to even try to integrate with the local people. That creates division and ill feeling,  when that's the first thing you should be looking to avoid. And this is the alienation problem the majority of people have with the Muslim communities. There are areas of East London where road names are written in Arabic for crying out loud. They don't want to integrate and they never will integrate.

I think most firmly convicted religious believers hope that one day the whole world will see things the same way they do.  Muslims tend to be a group with more aggressive "proselytizing" methods, but as Warbler points out, those who are most aggressive are not even close to a majority.  Nevertheless, they represent a substantially larger minority than their Christian or Jewish equivalents.  It leads to stereotyping and fearful reactions to the whole group, but it's true that one cannot punish that whole group because of the actions of a minority.  Sadly it's difficult to balance security with liberty.  As Franklin purportedly said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Mrebo said:but it doesn't matter if most members of a group don't want to take over the world or install Islamic law everywhere.

this is what I was and still do take issue with.   It does matter that most don't want to take over the world.   You have to factor that in to how you react to the problem(s) caused by those that do want to take over the world.

There's two things in this world I can't stand - people who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch.

Only the Muslim extremists want to take over - the moderates don't. Not that they'll ever succeed, of course - their animalistic brains lack the capacity to exhibit the subtlely needed to covertly take over any modern society.

They aren't trying to "take over the world". But many of them do wish to practice their religion the way they do in their home countries, including the enforcement of Islamic laws and penal codes; and they are a rapidly growing minority in just about every country that accepts immigration. With current immigration rates continuing, this population is projected to eventually become the majority in multiple European countries, or at the very least a significant minority. That is where the "take over" part comes from. Not through uprising, conspiracy, some calamitous agenda, or any intentional or planned manner, but through basic statistics and the nature of democracy.  

Here is skimming the surface of the difference, and the crux of the issue:

How many cultures are there left in the world that still practice fundamental Judaism? I use Judaism because the extreme judicial sections of the Christian Bible are from the Old Testament, which was Judaism, the New Testament being the source literature of Christianity doesn't contain laws, rather it teaches to how to live as Christians under any number of legal systems as examples and forces of influence to those around and over them (give unto Caesar, pray for your leaders, light unto the world).

What country in the world still stones adolescence for disrespecting their parents, under the rules of Judaism? What country in the world still stones adulterous women, or forces their citizens to follow the strict Levitical laws of atonement for various crimes or even for normal biological occurrences (menses)?

The answer is none. Not even Israel practices these things, and they sure don't force their citizens to do them. Many of the things required in the Old Testament would even be illegal for a citizen to do in Israel.

However, you have numerous countries that practice and enforce the strict, violent, and misogynistic laws of Islam.

So naturally it is going to be a problem when immigration has pools of people from these places moving to modern and mostly secular countries who carry with them a desire to practice and uphold their religious laws. This is why we constantly hear talk about Sharia Law. We have continuous and rapidly growing communities of immigrants from these countries who feel it ought to be their religious right to practice Sharia law in their host countries.

It would be great to provide that kind of religious freedom to Muslim immigrants, unfortunately this form of law also brings along a lot of human rights violations. It wasn't that long ago I posted several stories on the prevalence of gang rapes in communities of immigrants from some of these countries in places like Sweden and France. It is out of control and the local police have a hard time policing it, because so many in those communities are behind it and keep it secret. Their attitudes are that it is their communities business, not the business of the secular French (or whatever country) government. It is the way they do things back home, the way their religion and culture teaches, and the proper way to do it. 

Anyone can see how this can become a real legit issue. It is great to be all multicultural, and to welcome immigration, be non judgmental, and have a laissez faire stance toward other religions and their practices. But a line has to be drawn. When it becomes a choice between being politically correct and pro-freedom of religion and human rights violations, then political correctness and freedom of religion are the things that need to take the dive.

And this is where the conflict stems from. Western Europe has increasingly become a more secular society over the years. The majority don't need religion to tell them how to live their lives. We've moved on. They don't like the way we live? Then stay in their own fucking country. That's all it boils down to.

Hey, it's me. said:

And this is where the conflict stems from. Western Europe has increasingly become a more secular society over the years. The majority don't need religion to tell them how to live their lives. We've moved on. They don't like the way we live? Then stay in their own fucking country. That's all it boils down to.

The "way we live" is itself a troubling statement that can pretty much be used to justify anything, and oppress anyone.

There is the added irony of Berlin playing host to large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Russia.

I wish they had saved Hitler's brain because I would love to see it dementedly light up in fury over that twist.

The economic cycle has taken a deeper than average plunge.

It happens once or twice every century and usually results in ethnic and religious minorities getting scapegoated because there is nothing worse than an itch you can's scratch when there are men with beards living in the same street as you.

Naturally the disabled, the elderly, the homosexuals and the gypsies will be next.

Watch this space, it's yesterday once more.