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"Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?! — Page 2

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It seems most here are resolved to the opinion that Lucas is undoubtedly going to be making changes, therefore you might as well enjoy them. Well, I still wish he wouldn't and will still be upset when he undoubtedly decides to go through with it.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
It seems most here are resolved to the opinion that Lucas is undoubtedly going to be making changes, therefore you might as well enjoy them. Well, I still wish he wouldn't and will still be upset when he undoubtedly decides to go through with it.

Just as long as we get the originals in good quality, I don't really care. In an absolutely ideal situation we'd also get TPM in its unaltered form. That would be nice if only because I actually saw the prequels multiple times on the big screen during their respective runs.

Originally posted by: zombie84
I have always heard this spoken of but i have never even seen official evidence that this happened. I really do believe it, but the only references to this event are the blurb on his IMDB page, which may be reprised at wikipedia or something. Is this referenced or even confirmed by anyone with authority or is this purely in the realm of unconfirmed-internet-fact?


If it's unconfirmed fact, you certainly have to wonder what it's doing on imdb! I have seen things get posted in trivia and then dissappear later on. For example, there was something on Star Trek VI's about Lawrence Konner and Mark Rosenthal having nothing to do with the script according to Leanard Nimoy but getting credited simply because they argued enough for it. I definitely read that somewhere, I'm pretty sure it was imdb, but it's not there anymore. Still, in Jedi's case, Alec Mills as cinematographer is still listed albeit as uncredited. The story must've started somewhere.

Another story just came to mind. What was the deal with the reshoot of Mark Hamill's fall from the Cloud City weathervane to Lando in the top hatch of the Falcon? Did they screw up the original camera negative during processing? That's what I read somewhere.

Originally posted by: oojason
cheers for the heads-up Jambe.

I remember Terence Stamp (who played Chancellor Valorum in Episode I) saying a few years ago that he was surprised how few of the scenes he filmed made it to the final cut of Ep1 - and that there were a lot more politically themed content that didn't make it either.

Perhaps if new scenes are being inserted into the OT, then there is a chance that maybe the PT will also have new or previously unseen shots inserted too...?


(the cynic in me thinks as it has been 8 years since the release of Ep1 Lucas must be itching to make a few changes )


Since LFL is pushing the "we're focusing on television" thing, I could stand to see the prequels filled out a little. I still havne't gotten around to reading the OT novelizations or the ROTS novelization for that matter, but the gap in content between movie and book seems to be much greater in the prequels than in the originals. Then again, I hear there's stuff in the ROTS movie that doesn't happen in the novel.

I still say all of this on the condition that GL releases all six movies in their original forms and in good quality. I wonder if he actually cut into the negative for TPM when he made the changes for the '01 dvd or if he just did it on the computer.
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IMDB has a lot of B.S., but who knows. If Lucas and David Tomblin started stepping over Marquand during the final month (the Northern California exteriors, I think) in a rush to get the shots finished on time, it kind of makes sense. A lot of that footage is kind of...fugly. And the Endor battle really has that cheap, impersonal second unit-y, A-Team quality.
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IMDB is user-based and its full of bullshit. If you see a news piece and it only exists on IMDB, 99% chance its nonesense. Thats why, despite the nature of it being believable, i am skeptical of this IMDB-exclusive bit that only appears on an obscure english DP's personal page.
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Well, now it makes more sense in several ways. Thanks for the info.

Feel like tackling the Cloud City question?
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But did they actually re-shoot it? It just seems like all the parts didn't get put in.
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The cloud city thing i think is just a pacing issue. There was a scene where Lando went outside, tethered himself to the Falcon, retrieved Luke and dragged him back in, but at that point the film is just moving at an incredible rate and it works really well to just have him fall, cut to Lando's voice saying "okay lets go" and then reveal him bringing Luke inside the hatch.

Anyway, as for Hume, while IMDB is user-based and often has inaccurate data, this whole thing is very strange--i mean, why would someone make up such a wild story? It has to come from somewhere. And it certainly is believable.
My first thought was what someone else said: that some of footage that was shot last indeed looks cheap--but then i realised the whole movie looks inconsistently cheap and glossy, depending on shot to shot. All the scenes in the throne room are lit horribly--partially due to the fact that it was an entirely black set that needed to be flooded with light to read detail--and most the shots are just kind of bland and rough. This is because Marquand said he wanted the rough, fastly-shot look of ANH, and Lucas wanted the shoot done as quickly as possible, so it was sort of guerrilla style, just do the minimum lighting, do a take and if you don't get it then move on. On the other hand, a scene like Luke's unmasking of Vader--which was directed by Lucas--is lit in an understated but appropriately dramatic way, and some of the Jabbas Palace stuff is interestingly done.
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What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.


Well, i guess the footage was indeed damaged then, but seeing as it was reshot, however, yet still omitted, its ultimate deletion from the film boils down to a pacing issue.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
If we do get the OOT in remastered shape for this year, I actually hope GL just goes crazy with the latest SE version. Looking at it in an even broader perspective, it could put an interesting spin on the whole debate within the fandom, but I'll get to that in a moment.


I think if he's going to do it then he really should just go hog wild. Put Gungans in rebel flight uniforms and as part of ground forces. There should be some Jar-Jar cameos. In fact, C-3PO should be replaced by Jar-Jar in some spots. Add a second shockwave ring into the Death Star explosions, etc. Anything that finally convinces the general populace that constant revision of movies reduces their impact and importance.
George Lucas, October 1979: There are essentially nine films in a series of three trilogies. I have story treatments on all nine.
George Lucas, February 1999: I never had a story for the sequels.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.


I can't find this over there... link please!
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Well, i guess the footage was indeed damaged then, but seeing as it was reshot, however, yet still omitted, its ultimate deletion from the film boils down to a pacing issue.


Everything that George lucas has done to the end of Empire Strikes Back proves that he has no understanding of pacing.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I can't help but think that if only GL would have just released a completely restored and remastered OOT in the first place, we would still be buying his SE's. If he would have just said, "Yes, well, I have taken the original Theatrical Releases of the Original Trilogy and had my people go over it for two years restoring it to complete HD quality so that all of my fans can enjoy it as they first seen it in theaters back in '77-'83. However, I plan on releasing some new editions of it from time to time as technoogy allows me to retell the story in various ways." Instead of, "This is not the Star Wars movie you are looking for, it never existed, it has always had Han shooting last" *Lucas waves hand at camera* Then I think we would have respected him better and continued to buy each version he put out, rather than dread it completely, sure we still would have been upset at some of his changes, but at least we could have comfort that we could always go back to OOT anytime.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
What about this stuff from wookieepedia?:

# Mark Hamill's fall from Cloud City had to be re-shot after the film was damaged during processing.
# Mark Hamill did most of his own stunts in the film. The scene where Luke Skywalker falls from Cloud City onto the Millennium Falcon—which was later reshot due to film damage-caused an injury to Mark Hamill's wrist. Unfortunately, most of the footage—including Luke Skywalker's landing on the hull of the Millennium Falcon—was omitted from the final film.


I can't find this over there... link please!


It's mentioned in Alan Arnold's TESB book. It really is a MUST READ for any Star Wars fan. It's often on ebay.

Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
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We've pretty much known this for a few years now. There were rumors that Lucas shot extra scenes of Palpy, Bail, and Mon Mothma during the production of ROTS. The fact that the LFL spokesman says there are no plans for a new version release just means that there is no official announcement for it yet. Could this be what brings people to the theater for the 3D release? Or will it be an incentive to buy the box set....

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Originally posted by: MagnoliaFan
100 shots is only probably a handful of scenes per film.
I think what he witnessed was them beginning to remaster the deleted scenes for a future OT dvd release, ala the prequel discs.
It doesn't necessarily have to be scenes going back into the film.


That was one of the first things to cross my mind upon reading the article. After all, deleted scenes were conspicuously absent from the '04 set.

In regards to the OOT, the other day I was reading the wiki entry for the film Fantasia. It turns out that because there've been so many different versions released since 1940, Disney didn't have an actual complete usable master of the original version when the film's 60th anniversary rolled around back in 2000. So guess what they did. They reconstructed it as best they could. Not only does Disney not need to "Special Edition" their movies, they actually go through this kind of trouble to present things as they really looked. Lucasfilm only has a mere handful of movies to its name and, let's face it, nothing besides Star Wars can compare for popularity. Indiana Jones is either close or still far behind somewhere in second place. Just the other week I was talking with my mother on the phone and she mentioned some journal published a list of the wealthiest people and next to each person's name was what their business was. She found it amusing that next to Lucas's name it simply said "Star Wars."
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That's nice.

Originally posted by: Tiptup
Really, by this point, more changes can only be a good thing. If George can change the SE version of the movies enough, then more and more people will simply stop recognizing them as the real thing. Or, at the very least, more people will begin demanding access to the theatrical versions in higher quality.

How do you figure?

Well I will still try to remain optimistic here and say that we will see a remastered version of the OUT this year; too many signs point to it as far as I am concerned.


I hope that you're right, but sadly, I doubt it.

If only you could remove the gun to your head that makes you buy this stuff!!!


I'd imagine that most people here aren't going to buy it, but that doesn't mean that no one will. Personally, I don't care anyway. I want the restored and remastered OOT. If this is related to that, then that's nice. There are other places for me to spend my money. I never said anyone was making me buy it and I am not going to buy it.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Heh, George Lucas has made Star Wars into quite the bussiness.


Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Really, by this point, more changes can only be a good thing. If George can change the SE version of the movies enough, then more and more people will simply stop recognizing them as the real thing. Or, at the very least, more people will begin demanding access to the theatrical versions in higher quality.


How do you figure?


Well, if you need me to state it more clearly: As far as I can see, too many people seem to believe that they are watching the real Star Wars when they watch the SEs. If George makes more changes, he can only alienate more of the people in that crowd as they realize that they aren't watching what they became originally attached to. Therefore, they'd be more likely to demand what they remember.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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My thoughts exactly

I'd have to look at the numbers to see how things have sold over the years, so let me just say something about the '04 dvd. Many people, myself included, were just so distracted by all the bells and whistles and just the sheer fact that the movies were finally on dvd at all (after the first two prequels had already been released on the format) that we just didn't care about its not being the original version. Now, not everyone shared this sentiment. Chud.com didn't even bother to review the boxset and a reader wrote the site's founder, Nick Nunziata, to ask why. Nick replied in his mailbag column with something along the lines of "oh, yea, it's been a while since I've seen those movies, so maybe I'll give them a watch."

He didn't write a review simply because it was the SE, and this is coming from a guy whose website reviews just about every dvd that gets released.

It goes without saying then that the Limited Editions were also not reviewed by the site. People have become turned off to Star Wars because it's just not worth it. They can't just be movies anymore. They have to be, as I overheard someone in one of my film classes put it, "a way of life."
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
People have become turned off to Star Wars because it's just not worth it. They can't just be movies anymore. They have to be, as I overheard someone in one of my film classes put it, "a way of life."


So, in other words, the Star Wars films have become ghettoized, in the sense that mainstream audiences have shunned the series and its' multiple revisions, so that the only people who seem to care anymore are hardcore fanboys?

Time was it was "cool" to like Star Wars, I swear this hobby is one pair of Vulcan ears away from being a total joke.
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It's always when I'm not looking that someone bumps one of the threads....
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I wasn't aware of the effort in trying to reconstruct Fantasia. But you are surely aware of how some scenes in that movie were censored. Many other Disney films have had elements erased or cut to avoid offending anyone. Song of the South (1946) has been pretty much disowned by Disney with the exception of the oscar winning song Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah and the ride Splash Mountain. I didn't even see any good dvd bootlegs on eBay made from either the Asian laserdiscs or recent UK tv airings.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

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You guys seen this?

Looks like this years offerings are going to include a Biggs action figure and a Luke figure with a moisture vaperator. That could be a good sign....
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What's up with the Vader action figure? Do you think Lucas shot some new footage, maybe dual footage, while he was filming ROTS. Maybe Lucas wanted to make the damage to Vader from the Emperorer's lightning to be more evident, so he shot some new footage of Vader getting electricuted. This would make it seem like Vader definitely died from the lightning. Also, if you look at the Vader action figure's cloak it has holes in it from what appears to be burns, and the helmet looks like it has exploded. The helmet exploding is consistent with an old ROTJ poster that showed Vader's helmet breaking into pieces like it had exploded. It would be very easy to digitally alter the suit and Vader's body to make it look more damaged from the lightning. I know Vader's helmet exploding would contradict the unmasking sequence later on, but I am sure Lucas would try to make his new idea work at the expense of the existing elements and plot. This is just me speculating, because with Lucas you never know what he might do next.