logo Sign In

Another prequel vs. OT Discrepancy

Author
Time
Let me know what you think...

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?

PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

ANAKIN: What happened to him?

PALPATINE: He became so powerful . . . the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.

ANAKIN: Is it possible to learn this power?

PALPATINE: Not from a Jedi. Now, from A New Hope:
VADER: He is here...

TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so?

VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.

TARKIN: Surely he must be dead by now.

VADER: Don't underestimate the power of the Force.
Now, maybe its just me, but does that sound like Vader is implying Obi-Wan Kenobi could extend his life by using the Force? But we just read the extending one's life with the Force is a Dark Side thing??
Author
Time
No. It just means that Vader doesn't underestimate ObiWan. Obi Wan, remember, defeated Vader in their last encounter. I think he just doesn't believe that ObiWan would die before trying to 'finish the job'.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Author
Time
In recent Star Wars marathons with friends we observed how ludicrous it was for Tarkin to think Obi-Wan was dead as the Jedi was younger or at least the same age as he was. Another biproduct of Lucas retooling the timelime and making both Obi-Wan and Anakin much younger than they originally were.
Author
Time
Yes, exactly. Obi-Wan was supposed to be older than Tarkin on ANH, but still... Well, he didn't age too well, did he? From Ewan McGregor into Alec Guiness in 19 years...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
If you don't care about a good story and just go for merchandising, that's what happens.
Forum Moderator
Author
Time
Somehow I doubt he would spend ten years of his life and hundreds of millions of he didn't know what the hell he was doing storywise.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Somehow I doubt he would spend ten years of his life and hundreds of millions of he didn't know what the hell he was doing storywise.




People dont doubt he spent millions of dollars just to throw down the drain, and that he wasted ten years of his life for nothing, but storywise why do people say there are plotholes continuty errors and inconsisties, do Star Wars fans/people say it for a laugh and a joke at Georges expense or because they see flaws in the story,you have even brought up the Leia remembering Padme issue yourself......
Author
Time
Two words: Michael Bay.

So much for spending millions = good story.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Somehow I doubt he would spend ten years of his life and hundreds of millions of he didn't know what the hell he was doing storywise.




People dont doubt he spent millions of dollars just to throw down the drain, and that he wasted ten years of his life for nothing, but storywise why do people say there are plotholes continuty errors and inconsisties, do Star Wars fans/people say it for a laugh and a joke at Georges expense or because they see flaws in the story,you have even brought up the Leia remembering Padme issue yourself......


Yes, but I just don't think he would just "forget" about essential plot elements that easily. I mean, with the thousands of people working with him, even if he did forget, someone would remind him. Even as early as January, when they still could have fixed that seemingly-plot element, McCallum explained that there was no continuity issue, given the greater coontext of the saga. Now, I would assume that is based on words directly from Lucas himself.
Author
Time
Ok, before this completely breaks down.

Tarkin's comment is not so much directed at Obi-Wan's age, but rather that if the Empire has continued and that this rebellion has been in existence, it would make sense for one of the last known surviving Jedi to have atleast been involved or come out and attacked. It's been almost 20 years. Do you think that if the US did not hear or see OBL for 20 years, they would still think he was alive? No, of course not. However, Vader respects the Force and respects ObiWan's dedication to it...and the theme that Lucas stresses in Prequels: Patience. Vader continuely lacks patience, even when searching for Luke and it is what brings him misfortune.

I believe the next line goes something like, "You are all that remains of that ancient religion". I think this also refers to the Empire's search and destruction of all remaining Jedi. The Jedi have become unimportant, not a worry for the Empire..and Tarkin with his massive hubris is far from concerned for Obi Wan.

As far as Obi Wan aging that much in 20 years, it might be a stretch for some...however, Obi Wan is living in the middle of a sahara style planet, in an adobe hut with very little protection from sandstorms, constant heat and sun. Look at US Presidents. Look at the amount of aging they go through in an 8 year span.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Author
Time
Plus, Tarkin likely assumes that Obi-Wan must have been killed in that 19 year time period between ROTS and ANH, given what we know about the empire's hunt during that time, for the remaining Jedi who survived the purge.
Author
Time
"Yes, but I just don't think he would just "forget" about essential plot elements that easily."

But surrounding himself with "yes" men during the writing of the PT, much of which was still written on the fly throughout the filming, makes it much easier for such problems to creep in. Try reading the Annotated Screenplays sometime, and see how much back-and-forth there was between Lucas and his group. This is what kept everything in focus, especially for ANH (the early writings were quite laughable.) ROTJ, my least favorite of the OT, is when Lucas really starts going solo, leading to two death stars to begin with, and a rescue sequence that foreshadows his PT ideas about reasonable cause and effect.

"Plus, Tarkin likely assumes that Obi-Wan must have been killed in that 19 year time period between ROTS and ANH, given what we know about the empire's hunt during that time, for the remaining Jedi who survived the purge."

And the fact that he, as well as Yoda, have apparently done nothing in the intervening years. In the novelization, Ben hints at other surviving Jedi who would probably not bother to assist Luke if he needed it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Well, actually, Obi-Wan did do quite a few things, as seen in Jude Watson's "The Last of the Jedi" series.
Author
Time
Completely outside the scope of this discussion. And even if we did take EU into account, Tarkin certainly isn't aware of these actions, so his statement still makes sense.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
But what actually happened isn't the point. It's what's been believed to have happened that is important. Tarkin believes Obi-wan to be dead, simply because he's not seen or heard anything about him for almost two decades. This goes hand in hand with the Jedi believing the Sith to be dead for thousands of years.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
lets not forget that among the MANY things lucas FORGOT to align between the two trilogys. he simply overlooked this fact:

luke to leia : do you remember your mother, your real mother?

leia : just a little, she was very beautiful, but sad


are we supposed to belive that leia has memory streching as far back as the moment of her birth to see her mother dying and luke does not have this ability, even though amidala looks at both of them before she dies. i would argue that lucas didnt have anything of the sort in mind when that dialog came about. in fact, i would say that the idea would've been for luke to be taken away much earlier than leia for the purpose of hiding him from the Emperor and Vader. and more over, that Amidala didnt die, or 'lose the will to live' right after she gave birth. yet another scenario where lucas changing things makes literally, less than zero sense.
thank the maker
Author
Time
Actually, the novelization hints at a different scenario:

He looked down at their intertwined fingers. "Leia…do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

The question took her totally by surprise. She'd always felt so close to her adopted parents, it was as if they were her real parents. She almost never thought of her real mother-that was like a dream. Yet now Luke's question made her start. Flashes from her infancy assaulted her- distorted visions of running…a beautiful woman…hiding in a trunk. The fragments suddenly threatened to flood her with emotion.

"Yes," she said, pausing to regain her composure. "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young."

"What do you remember?" he pressed. "Tell me."

"Just feelings, really…images." She wanted to let it slide, it was so out of the blue, so far from her immediate concerns…but somehow so loud inside, all of a sudden.

"Tell me," Luke repeated.

She felt surprised by his insistence, but decided to follow him with it, at least for the time being. She trusted him, even when he frightened her. "She was very beautiful," Leia remembered aloud. "Gentle and kind-but sad." She looked deeply into his eyes, seeking his intentions. "Why are you asking me this?"

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
yeah, that makes sense, although ive never read that one, i like that idea. i guess all i meant was that amidala did live for some amount of time after leia was born and Lucas certainly overlooked that. and with the novelization bit there, we see that leia knows for certain that she is adopted and can still remember the distant memories of her birth mother. thanks for the insight.
thank the maker
Author
Time
Yes, the Luke and Leia discrepency isn't in dispute. However, that's kinda existed since ANH to ESB to ROTJ.

This Tarkin one though is stretching it a bit just looking for things.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......