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An exact quote from Lucas on Greedo shooting first. — Page 2

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Originally posted by: George Lucas
Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially.' In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time.


The more you think about this, the more ridiculous it gets:
a) both the novel and the shooting script state that Han shoots first;
b) "In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time" - there was nothing preventing him shooting it that way in 1976;
c) "Well, I don't have that shot" - but he did, as he had plenty of shots of Greedo pointing a blaster at Solo, to which the laser blast could have been added easily in '77, the same way all the other laser blasts were;
d) which is exactly what he used to make Greedo shoot first in '97.
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Originally posted by: THX
Originally posted by: George Lucas
Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially.' In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time.


The more you think about this, the more ridiculous it gets:
a) both the novel and the shooting script state that Han shoots first;
b) "In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time" - there was nothing preventing him shooting it that way in 1976;
c) "Well, I don't have that shot" - but he did, as he had plenty of shots of Greedo pointing a blaster at Solo, to which the laser blast could have been added easily in '77, the same way all the other laser blasts were;
d) which is exactly what he used to make Greedo shoot first in '97.


Though he didn't have technology to make Han's head move in a very awkward and unrealistic fashion

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Ah! So the truth comes out! It's all Harrison Ford's fault that Lucas couldn't achieve his vision! "Damn it, Harrison, how come you could have moved your head in a clunky and unrealistic manner? Now I'm going to have to make you shoot first!" *brandishes whip* "Ugh! Sorry, Master Lucas!"

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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"c) "Well, I don't have that shot" - but he did, as he had plenty of shots of Greedo pointing a blaster at Solo, to which the laser blast could have been added easily in '77, the same way all the other laser blasts were;
d) which is exactly what he used to make Greedo shoot first in '97. "


Dammmmmmmn.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Lucas' assertion that it's cold blooded murder reflects, I think, his increasingly liberal world view.


From what I've heard, Lucas is a Buddhist, and the idea of killing in cold blood flies in the face of any Buddhist's beliefs.

As far as there being no redemption for a cold-blooded murderer, that idea seems more conservative to me than liberal, since ultra-conservatives are for the death penalty while ultra-liberals don't believe in killing anyone for their crimes.

I think Lucas's explanation of the change reflects a religious change in his world-view (he grew up attending a Protestant church) and perhaps the extent to which other people in the filmmaking process of the OT had a HUGE hand in shaping the Star Wars Universe, storylines, characters, and all.

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Hey, Zombie84. I know it's off-thread, but you don't have PM, and I've found your POV on things OT interesting. So, I wanted to get your opinion on my Episode 3 rough-cut opening sequence if you'd like to give it.

It can be downloaded here from YouSendIt.com (.WMV file; 320x240window size; 15 MB):

Episode 3 Rough-Cut Opening
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Well, Buddhism advocates total non-vioelence for any reason. If Lucas was a Buddhist, the 'Rebels' would be like Gandhi, I think... starving themselves for social change.

Which Palpatine wouldn't care one whit about...

4

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Well, Buddhism advocates total non-vioelence for any reason. If Lucas was a Buddhist, the 'Rebels' would be like Gandhi, I think... starving themselves for social change.

Which Palpatine wouldn't care one whit about...


Yeah, true Buddhism advocates total non-violence, but a change in religious POV and the fact that you (e.g., Lucas) are profiting from a series of films that you helped create could explain the stupid change to Greedo shooting first. Nobody said that claiming a religion meant that you couldn't be nominal (hypocritical) about it.
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I always preferred the original way the scene was done where we couldn't see who was shooting and certainly not who shot first. It was just an explosion making the scene more intense, not knowing who got blasted, and then you see the smokey corpse of Greedo. It isn't until that point that you surmise that Han shot first. Intense stuff.

With the SE change, the scene is so boring you don't even pay attention to what's happening.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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In that instance of not knowing who shot until Greedo falls over on the table, it actually conveys the screenplay very accurately. This is a case where Lucas actually DID have his "original vision."

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Originally posted by: CO
This quote is a classic by Lucas as he tries to defend the change of Greedo shooting first in the Special Edition:


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GL: It's a correction. [When I made Star Wars] I said, 'Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially.' In my mind [Greedo]shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that's hip- I don't think that's a good thing for people. I mean, I don't see how you could redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood."...
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Come on now, Lucas has lost his mind!

That's a load of BS. There was nothing to prevent him from shooting it that way originally if he had wanted to. Why doesn't he just admit that he changed his mind and wanted to alter the scene? Why does he keep insisting that all the changes he makes are things he wanted to do all along?

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Originally posted by: Mielr
Why doesn't he just admit that he changed his mind and wanted to alter the scene?
He did. Or at least back when the SEs came out. Here's what he said back in '96/'97 regarding the issue. The video can be found on the "Making Magic" CD-ROM.

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Lucas: "Well, the change in the Greedo scene: it's always been a little difficult exactly how Han shoots Greedo and what Greedo does to provoke that. And obviously, the situation was that Geedo's gonna shoot Han, Han outdraws him and kills him. But in the film, it sort of appeared that Han shot him without Greedo knowing what was going on. That always bothered me so we added a new shot - a wider shot - where you see Greedo fire his gun and have it richochet off the wall, and then Han shoots him so it doesn't look like Han shot him in cold blood. We did have some difficulty in the timing of the laser so that it looks believable that Greedo could have fired the gun and then Han would have fired shortly thereafter but still have it far enough apart for it to read, for an audience to see that there were two separate gun shots going on."
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Originally posted by: jturd
If I could jump in here, I personally don't think that Greedo was absolutely definitely 100% going to shoot Han. I mean, if he had shot and killed Han right then and there, he'd have a 170 lbs. dead body to drag all the way from the cantina to Jabba's palace. That's, what, at least ten miles as the crow flies? Greedo doesn't look strong enough. No upper body strength. He knew that wasn't going to happen. Unfortunately, he wasn't sharp enough to march Han right out of that cantina the moment he confronted him. Instead, he let him sit down, relaxed the "keep your hands where I can see them" rule, and, well, that was that.

And even if Greedo wasn't going to take him to Jabba, even if his intent was to collect Han's cash and "forget" he found him, Han clearly stated that he didn't have the money on him. I suppose Han could have been lying, but the only way Greedo would have known for sure is if he had kept Han on his feet and searched him. If he had shot Han dead with empty pockets, he would have been totally fucked. But, as Darth Chaltab put it, our green friend was too busy gloating like a Bond villain to think any of these scenarios through.

That's what I think, at least. I could be (totally) wrong.


How do you know he didn't have a speeder parked nearby? I doubt he walked all the way from the spaceport. Also a bounty hunter doesn't need to deliver the entire carcas to prove his kill, he merely need to bring an indentifiable object, namely the head.
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As was pointed out recently, the logic for the change is ludicrous since there are so many other "cold-blooded" moments perpetrated by Han and other characters. Han shoots at Darth Vader unprovoked in ESB. Yoda slices off two Clone Troopers' heads in ROTS. Hell, even R2 tazers a fleeing Ewok in ROTJ. I think we should compile a list of all the other "cold-blooded killer" moments in Star Wars movies. Anybody want to continue from where I left off?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I have begun to think that the reason for the change could be the inclusion of the Jabba scene. It does not make as much sense that Jabba would be so approaching to Han if Han had shot one of his underlings in cold blood.

btw. I hate the Jabba scene...

Jabba: Why did you have to shoot Greedo? *puppy eyes*

Me: *cringe*
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I do think his recent (well, comparatively recent) adoption of Buddhism has affected the latest incarnations (no pun intended) of Star Wars. Think about all of Yoda's advice to Anakin, about not grieving for your loved ones, steering clear of all emotions/feelings, etc. Make no mistake, I think he drew upon many aspects of many religions in his original conception of the Force, including Buddhism, and that Yoda was intended as a Buddha-like figure right from the get-go, but in the prequels, the 'Jedi Code' and the concept of the Force runs counter to some of the things in the OT.

But is he a Buddhist? I'm not so sure myself these days. His 'midichlorian' explanation of the Force tends to de-mystify it and seeks to give it some kind of scientific basis...

Perhaps more correctly, Lucas' place in life has affected Star Wars. There is, as people have mentioned, Greedo shooting first/at the same time. The Jedi are forbidden to marry (Lucas divorced between ESB and ROTJ). The main characters are no longer ordinary people thrown into extraordinary events; they are people destined to power. Lucas was once an ambitious young director; a small fish in a big pond; a rags to riches story, but perhaps now he believes that he was always destined for greatness...
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: Darth Lars
I have begun to think that the reason for the change could be the inclusion of the Jabba scene. It does not make as much sense that Jabba would be so approaching to Han if Han had shot one of his underlings in cold blood.

btw. I hate the Jabba scene...

Jabba: Why did you have to shoot Greedo? *puppy eyes*

Me: *cringe*


Jabba is such a sly character I dont think he would give a damn. I mean he let Han step on his tail for crying out loud
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Wait a minute. I'm confused. If that is what Lucas originally wanted, then why didn't he write it that way to begin with? Is he saying that he originally wanted Greedo to shoot first and did not have the technology? It seems from the editing in the original version that Han was planning to shoot Greedo from the get go. Which is how things should have stayed.

Of course Han would shoot first, otherwise he would have been killed, and that would have sucked.


And there would have been no movie.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Mike O
Wait a minute. I'm confused. If that is what Lucas originally wanted, then why didn't he write it that way to begin with? Is he saying that he originally wanted Greedo to shoot first and did not have the technology? It seems from the editing in the original version that Han was planning to shoot Greedo from the get go. Which is how things should have stayed.

I've wondered that myself -but, apparently, GL changed his mind.

That's also why so much of the editing in the SE was changed as well. There was a site that I found once that compared some of the shots in the OOT with the SE, and you wouldn't notice if they weren't shown side-by-side, but the editing in some shots was subtly changed so that you can't see the actual laser from the blaster guns make impact with their targets. For example- in the Death Star control room, when Han and Luke are blasting their way in while in their stormtrooper disguises, you actually see the blasters make contact with one of the stormtrooper's armor in the OOT, but in the SE, you only see him falling- the actual blaster impact is cut out. Again, you probably wouldn't notice this (I didn't ) unless you see the 2 scenes running side-by-side, but I think the changes are unnecessary at best, insidious at worst.

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Having only just joined I thought I should keep somewhat of a low profile....

Okay, about this blasted scene again, somehow it always comes back to just this one scene. While we were busy checking the original versions we completely missed all the other, often rather fake looking, changes GL made to these films. I mean how many X-wings is a small rebel outpost meant to have???? Originally maybe two dozen, digitally all of a sudden they have more X-wings than there are TIE-Fighters in the whole first film.
ESB goes on with this farce when running through Cloud City all of a sudden nearly every wall has become a window. Continuity is definitely lost here due to the fact that the backdrops were not coordinated properly and thus are just additions made GL just for the sake of saying: "Look I've changed more than just the models, I've added a completely new backdrop to show that it is necessary for me to release these films again."
This, of course, is not a quote.

Somehow GL seems to think that artistic license is more important than what the fans feel. Having bought the the trilogy box set on DVD, I proceeded to watch the documentaries. Here it is clearly stated that if it weren't for the fans making such a big deal of all this before Star Wars was even released, there would have been no incentive for people to go and see this film. Therefore Star Wars is not solely the artistic property of GL but, I would say, that the fans have more rights to decide about the fates of these masterpieces than this genius that seems to have gotten too used to the idea of being called a genius.
George, get over it. Not all your films are brilliant but you do have talent. Don't waste it because you want to be the spoiled brat that has to have it his way because he sees it like that.

Of course, please don't get me started on my views of the PT.........
Sorry about the mess....
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Originally posted by: Paulus

Somehow GL seems to think that artistic license is more important than what the fans feel. Having bought the the trilogy box set on DVD, I proceeded to watch the documentaries. Here it is clearly stated that if it weren't for the fans making such a big deal of all this before Star Wars was even released, there would have been no incentive for people to go and see this film. Therefore Star Wars is not solely the artistic property of GL but, I would say, that the fans have more rights to decide about the fates of these masterpieces than this genius that seems to have gotten too used to the idea of being called a genius.
George, get over it. Not all your films are brilliant but you do have talent. Don't waste it because you want to be the spoiled brat that has to have it his way because he sees it like that.

Of course, please don't get me started on my views of the PT.........

I agree- if the fans hadn't made the original Star Wars such a success by going to see it multiple times in the movie theaters, and buying all of the accompanying merchandise, there wouldn't have been any sequels. Star Wars would have been just another semi-obscure cult-movie which (ironically) would probably have an anamorphic DVD release by now! LOL!

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Somehow GL seems to think that artistic license is more important than what the fans feel. Having bought the the trilogy box set on DVD, I proceeded to watch the documentaries. Here it is clearly stated that if it weren't for the fans making such a big deal of all this before Star Wars was even released, there would have been no incentive for people to go and see this film. Therefore Star Wars is not solely the artistic property of GL but, I would say, that the fans have more rights to decide about the fates of these masterpieces than this genius that seems to have gotten too used to the idea of being called a genius.


Lucas has every right to do whatever he wants to the films. The problem is his insistenc one ignoring the original completely. If the first film hadn't made millions of dollars, there would not even be a franchise. Star Wars doesn't belong to the fans, but it is a symbiotic relationship. Without the fans, there would not be a franchise, and there would not be fans without the franchise. It seems that both owe someone something. The fans have made LFL a billion-dollar company, and I think that the frustation comes from the fact the the gesture has not been reciprocated.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Actually, I must agree with you there.....

Without one the other cannot continue. Only now, after the fans have endured for years in their appreciation of these films they are being royaly screwed by a few execs that want to make vast amounts of dosh for themselves and a talented individual that has started to beleive the hype a bit too much. I think it's time the fans got what they deserved and Lucasfilm finally releases the films that the fans want to see, not what some other people want them to want to see.....
Sorry about the mess....
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Originally posted by: Paulus
Actually, I must agree with you there.....

Without one the other cannot continue. Only now, after the fans have endured for years in their appreciation of these films they are being royaly screwed by a few execs that want to make vast amounts of dosh for themselves and a talented individual that has started to beleive the hype a bit too much. I think it's time the fans got what they deserved and Lucasfilm finally releases the films that the fans want to see, not what some other people want them to want to see.....



Thank you . And the reckoning has finally started. We now must accelerate it. Thanks for joining us.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Slapping a Rodian would probably be painful, but that is besides the point. Greedo was pointing a gun at him and clearly WANTED to pull the trigger. He was probably GOING to do it, just gloating beforehand like a Bond villain. So Solo shoots him. Self defense.

Lucas' assertion that it's cold blooded murder reflects, I think, his increasingly liberal world view.



Plus, Han was already getting the gun ready under the table. Why would he do that and then wait for Greedo to shoot? And his reflexes are unbelievable.

Thank goodness Lucas doesn't produce or write for "24." Jack Bauer would always have to wait for the terrorists to shoot first! And speaking of that wonderful show, the writers and producers actually admit they only plan a few episodes at a time and make stuff up. They never claim to have an "original vision."
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."